Why Sylvanas War is completely justified

Story Forum
08/28/2018 10:24 AMPosted by Tiosata
So Silvanas destroy gilneas unprovoqued, kill genn son in front of him, kill almost all humans near lordaeron, that is genn motive, the horde has done even more genocide but they have selective amnesia, when it suit them.


The horde doesn't have selective amnesia, it's people like OP and others with cognitive dissonance, trying to rationalize mass murder and Sylvanas' downright disregard for life, Horde or Alliance, that do.

This topic is honestly kicking a dead horse over and over again. We've debated this to infinity - the shocking lack of rationale behind the actions of a demented queen hellbent on revenge because she powerslid into Arthas' sword. People who provide the theory that this was all for azerite don't understand that Exodar was a bigger threat, and that she went for the Tree because she lacks sound understanding of what it would do to the Horde in the coming war in terms of reprisal from the Alliance. Hell, she uses plague on her own troops to kill the Alliance - how do you even follow such a leader?
Hm.

Sylvanas: "I'm so convinced the Alliance is going to weaponize Azerite, I'm going to attack them just to force them into weaponizing it!"

Blizzard logic is not even logic, at this point.
08/28/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Drug
08/28/2018 11:29 AMPosted by Maevara
Any excuse that starts off with Stormheim falls flat, because what she was doing there was for her own benefit and would have resulted in trouble for all living beings. Greymane saved everyone from her and the forsaken.

Sylvanas is by definition a villain and a raid boss waiting to happen.


They've already all but confirmed Sylvanas will not just end up another raid boss, sorry about that. Especially with all the promotional material using Sylvanas I suspect they intend to keep her around and important for some time to come.

And in response to the Greymane stuff there's really not much more to be said there, he was clearly in the wrong, her being evil or him having grievances IS irrevant. Much in the same way a Chinese politician couldn't have marched into Japan after WW2 and shot Hirohito without repercussions. It doesn't matter what atrocities somebody's commuted, if you attack them that's a declaration of war if they're the HoS so stop talking about peace or muzzle your damn dog.

And Genn Greymane is by far one of the most evil characters in the lore, literally dooming tens of thousands to death both in and outside his nation, he has no leg to stand on for moral highground over anybody.


At this point you are likely just trolling. All the stuff Genn has done doesn't even begin to compare with Sylvanas' tally. Sylvanas is literally the Bashir Assad of Azeroth.
/popcorn
Genn's attack could have been see as an act of betrayal and may have interfering in the affairs of higher beings.

Genn did this without the knowing of the other leaders of the Alliance. Using the 7th Legion attack Sylvanas forsaken forces in Stormheim at the beginning especially during the events of the Burning Legion invasion. By using the 7th Legion this could this could have easily be seen as an attack by the Alliance itself and while Genn is seen as the one that planed it would seem that Sylvans hasn't heard him being punished for his action could give her the idea that Anduin is incompetent to lead or he was the one that gave the orders for the attack.

As for Interfering with the affairs of higher beings you have to remembering the lore around Odyn and Helya concerning this issue. Helya made a bargain with Sylvanas give her a lantern as her part of the bargain or a tool for for bargain that she used to capture main Val'kyr Eyir who was under the 'service' of Odyn. Remember Sylvanas somehow made a bargain with Helya leader of Helarjar the most hostile faction around and someone who has the power judge if you are unworthy or not, it could be easily assume that Sylvanas had information regarding Helya's history when going to Stormheim. Sylvanas want a mean resurrect Undead and keep her people alive, while Helya hate for Odyn for what he has done her and possible to other Val'kyr, and so a bargain was made which satisfied both parties. Genn's interference was more fuel on vengeance then doing the right, he probably did not know what happened between Helya and Odyn when he 'freed' Eyir. With the lantern destroyed it's possible the bargain is no longer or the bargain still needs to be fulfilled in Sylvanas part. For Helya, it should be a wonder what her reaction would be for Genn's interference she might hold a grudge towards the Alliance but also the possibility of her being allied with a being of death.

Also as a side notes Eyir was not greatful to alliance player in the Hall of Valor after the Stormheim questline as she give them the same treatment as the horde players and her history as titanic watcher isn't known.
08/28/2018 01:06 PMPosted by Eliza
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They've already all but confirmed Sylvanas will not just end up another raid boss, sorry about that. Especially with all the promotional material using Sylvanas I suspect they intend to keep her around and important for some time to come.

And in response to the Greymane stuff there's really not much more to be said there, he was clearly in the wrong, her being evil or him having grievances IS irrevant. Much in the same way a Chinese politician couldn't have marched into Japan after WW2 and shot Hirohito without repercussions. It doesn't matter what atrocities somebody's commuted, if you attack them that's a declaration of war if they're the HoS so stop talking about peace or muzzle your damn dog.

And Genn Greymane is by far one of the most evil characters in the lore, literally dooming tens of thousands to death both in and outside his nation, he has no leg to stand on for moral highground over anybody.


At this point you are likely just trolling. All the stuff Genn has done doesn't even begin to compare with Sylvanas' tally. Sylvanas is literally the Bashir Assad of Azeroth.


I'm not trolling, most people assumed that when Gilneas eventually opened it would be with Greymane as a villian, as it turned out he was more of an !@#$%^- then we even knew and had not only doomed Lordaeron but had nearly doomed his own nation as well. Somehow this is all water under the bridge though now and he's still technically king despite the fact in the real world nearly every human in the Alliance would want him hung. Seriously, real world humans would butcher him real good.

Also wonder what justification the Forsaken (mostly from Lordaeron) could POSSIBLY have to want to kill all the Gilneans. His whole "grudge" was entirely of his own making.
08/28/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Drug
The first is obviously the attack by Genn Greymane on Sylvanas, but more specifically the complete and utter lack of response by the Alliance regarding this.


I feel like this is always observed in a vacuum where people simply focus on Genn attacking Sylvanas and none of the circumstances surrounding this.

As per quests in Azsuna, Genn is given intelligence from Forsaken documents regarding Sylvanas' plans in Stormheim. Not only this but by the end of that story, Genn actively prevents Sylvanas from enslaving the head of the Val'kyr, an act that could've turned Odyn against the defenders of Azeroth.

Genn shouldn't be punished for preventing Sylvanas from compromising the fight against the Legion. He should be honored for it. The fact he wasn't is indication Anduin has enough political instinct to realize the Horde would see that the wrong way.

08/28/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Drug
The second is the accepting of the Void Elves into the Alliance - once again this in and of itself almost necessitated war, the Void Elves were not only traitors and criminals of the Blood Elves and should have immediately been sent back to be tried and executed but are an ongoing threat to their very existence, they essentially brought in a weapon against the Blood Elves, and a dangerous and unquestionably evil race in general.


Yeah, I'll be honest, I'd like to imagine the Void Elves don't exist, but since they do...

1) The Void Elves aren't Traitors. They were exiled for (big shock) disagreeing with Lor'themar and Rommath.

2) If the Void Elves are such a massive threat to the Sunwell merely by existing, why weren't they killed to begin with? Why wasn't Alleria outright killed at the Sunwell? She's FAR more dangerous than any Void Elf by a long shot.

3) The Alliance brought in a group that was forsaken by their own kind. The Horde does this so often (the Forsaken being the prime example), that it's pretty hypocritical to even suggest this is a reason for war.

08/28/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Drug
The third is the escalation of spies in Orgrimmar far beyond what would consitute normal information gathering, this is cold war type stuff and is obviously going to raise the possibility of a declaration.


Fair and valid, but not quite justification for outright War. Sylvanas had her own spies after all.
The alliance fan boys in this thread throwing logic out the window just to suit their needs is hilarious.
08/28/2018 12:48 PMPosted by Kastellan
08/28/2018 10:24 AMPosted by Tiosata
So Silvanas destroy gilneas unprovoqued, kill genn son in front of him, kill almost all humans near lordaeron, that is genn motive, the horde has done even more genocide but they have selective amnesia, when it suit them.


The horde doesn't have selective amnesia, it's people like OP and others with cognitive dissonance, trying to rationalize mass murder and Sylvanas' downright disregard for life, Horde or Alliance, that do.

This topic is honestly kicking a dead horse over and over again. We've debated this to infinity - the shocking lack of rationale behind the actions of a demented queen hellbent on revenge because she powerslid into Arthas' sword. People who provide the theory that this was all for azerite don't understand that Exodar was a bigger threat, and that she went for the Tree because she lacks sound understanding of what it would do to the Horde in the coming war in terms of reprisal from the Alliance. Hell, she uses plague on her own troops to kill the Alliance - how do you even follow such a leader?
This shows you have no idea what you’re talking about lol.
08/28/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Drug

They've already all but confirmed Sylvanas will not just end up another raid boss, sorry about that.


Like how they confirmed Grom was the final boss of WoD and how they confirmed that Garrosh was actually a good dude looking out for the Horde in Cataclysm?

Blizzard will do whatever they want, regardless of existing lore or out of game promises.
08/29/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Mystaerica
Blizzard will do whatever they want, regardless of existing lore or out of game promises.


Aye, which is why I'm looking forward to little Andys heel turn. Be real fun to watch the prophesy believers get all in a tizzy over that.
08/29/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Myrothan
Aye, which is why I'm looking forward to little Andys heel turn. Be real fun to watch the prophesy believers get all in a tizzy over that.


Just because he's supposed to be around until he's an Old Man for the final battle doesn't mean he won't fall from grace between now and then and find redemption. If we're lucky we'll see Anduin take that plunge into the deep end and pull back at the last moment, just as his boot was about to crush Sylvanas' windpipe, to realize his error.

It'd be a great time kicking Horde butt until things went back to normal.
08/29/2018 11:30 AMPosted by Alurna
If we're lucky we'll see Anduin take that plunge into the deep end and pull back at the last moment, just as his boot was about to crush Sylvanas' windpipe, to realize his error.


If we're lucky they'll forget that comic even exists.
Hostilities do not necessitate war.

Consider how many times US Spy planes were shot down over Soviet Air Space; none of those incidents resulted in an all out war, because it wasn't in the best interests of either side.

On the flip side, wars can be started for absolutely asinine reasons. The War of Spanish Succession in the United Kingdom is known as the War for Jenkin's Ear, because the cassus belli, the justification for war on the British side was because decades ago, one Spanish captain had sliced off the ear of a British Privateer. Thus, five years of war and the destruction of the Hapsburg Dynasty in Spain.

So the incident in Stormheim is hardly an ironclad declaration of war; first of all, it was probably in everyone's best interest that Greymane stopped Sylvanas. Secondly, Genn Greymane is not a subordinate. The Alliance is... well, an alliance, not a union of states like the Horde. Genn is a sovereign King. Just because he does something Anduin doesn't want him to do, does not mean Anduin has the right to haul him in front of some trial. Genn may defer to Stormwind on many occassions, but if he wants something, there's very little the Alliance, far less Anduin, can actually do to stop him.

The Void Elves were also exiled from Quel'Thalas; Lor'themar had essentially washed his hands of them, thus freeing them of any obligation to the Elven kingdom's laws, unless they returned to Quel'Thalas' lands. And the Terogus Rift, by definition, is not part of Quel'Thalas. Thus, the Void Elves, by every law, are free to join the Alliance. Just because Lor'themar doesn't like it doesn't mean they've committed treason; they were already banished.

Your third point is the only one that holds water, but even then, very little. Look at the American-German scandal, where CIA operatives were caught spying on Berlin and Angela Merkel. By your logic, that should have been ground for war, but it's not. It's not something one should do to their allies, but it's hardly grounds for war. Everyone uses espionage. Sylvanas almost assuredly has spies in Stormwind, as well. Just because the Alliance is better at it isn't anyone's fault but the Horde's.

Also, as far as Sylvanas' actions go, it's not that her actions are justified by the Alliance doing things like killing Reliquary agents, the Alliance's actions are justified, because Sylvanas acted first.
08/29/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Ogyges
the Alliance's actions are justified, because Sylvanas acted first.


Every little brothers excuse, ever.

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