I got weaker as I leveled.

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08/16/2018 04:56 PMPosted by Levi
I did start off with a boost and it was much easier to lvl at 110 then 120

120 is doable for sure and if it’s intended fine but more than two mobs and I’m most likely making a graveyard run. And it wasn’t like that from the start in fresh boost gear


Yeah, and the exact same thing happened with the WoD boosts when legion launched.

Once the raid opens and people start outgearing the open world these complaints will stop, like every xpac.
08/16/2018 04:58 PMPosted by Allycantz
08/16/2018 04:56 PMPosted by Levi
I did start off with a boost and it was much easier to lvl at 110 then 120

120 is doable for sure and if it’s intended fine but more than two mobs and I’m most likely making a graveyard run. And it wasn’t like that from the start in fresh boost gear


Yeah, and the exact same thing happened with the WoD boosts when legion launched.

Once the raid opens and people start outgearing the open world these complaints will stop, like every xpac.


This expansion they introduced Item and level scale. For example; you have up to the top item level and excellent at playing your class, the mob you are going against matches your item level and take the same amount of time as killing it at level 115.

Mobs do hit harder as you level. You can no longer pull multiple mobs like you used to. It will only be worse as times goes on.

Their health and item level increase with yours.

Edit: Blizzard mentioned tanks are now tuned to all zones. So the mobs are tuned to our item level as well.
This happens every expansion, as you level up the stats on your gear lose a lot of value unless they inscrease greatly. It'll be fine once you reach level cap.
Try fighting mobs with no gear on...:)
08/16/2018 05:47 PMPosted by Pândemic
This happens every expansion, as you level up the stats on your gear lose a lot of value unless they inscrease greatly. It'll be fine once you reach level cap.


It does not happen every expansion. Because in Classic through Warlords, you still leveled over the mobs. So you had a stat advantage even if you didn't immediately have new gear to put on.

But now everything scales, so yes... leveling literally makes you weaker in this game. Dinging is a punishment from the game designers. That's a statistical fact.
08/16/2018 04:12 PMPosted by Berrye
Your gear didn't keep up with the experience gain. Notice how many quests weren't an upgrade? :( That's my one criticism so far, the xp to stat scale was off.


This isn't new. Scaling issues with gear not keeping up has been a problem since they put mob scaling into the game.
It's clear to me, Bliz is reminding us that we weren't awesome in Legion. We were just regular guys with AMAZING ARTIFACTS. Take those artifacts away and we are just regular guys again. But at the start, we have our leggos and are doing fine with the quests then, slowly, we come off the godlike high of legion until we reach max level where we bottom out. It will get better.

That, or maybe we would have failed Legion if the demons had employed bee, crow and crab mercs in their ranks...
08/16/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Odinmar
Interesting -- I was wondering if this 110-111 experience was going to last. Elites seem squishy compared to elites for, say, a level 45 character, or even what I remember elites being to a mostly-geared 110 just a week ago. Not that they are hitting less-hard, just their health pool seems less relative to my dps.

I'm glad I'm taking it slow, but it is disconcerting to see so many 120's in here already lol...


This. I'm playing slow due to vision impairment and/or goofing off/not focusing. But guildies are saying that in PVP level 113 players are wrecking the new level 120 players. I saw mention of gear not being upgrades in quests, but one guildie actually got an ilevel 350 thing just off a world drop and other guildies are linking ilevel 305+ type gear. It could be that even though you race ahead to level 120 (our world first did it in 4 hours and numerous guildies had it in the first day from spamming dungeons), you still need grinding time to pull out the higher ilevel gears and AP to catch yourself up.

I remember in the Q&A they rigged the AP to automatically use itself as you pick it up, but had plans to make the items gradually more powerful as the expansion goes on so people who come in late can catch up to the launch-day crew and the launch-day crew wouldn't be tempted to horde their AP items until they're more valuable. It could be they have an actual overall plan to let overall player's power creep up over time, aside from the simple function of players grinding out better gear and more AP.

Guildies do say the tank classes are doing better than others in terms of power, and some were dismayed about protection paladin killing faster than fury warriors or the like. I'm sure some number tunes are inbound, but right now seems like hotfixes to broken abilities have come through pretty quick in the first few days.

Edit: I think I actually remember this conversation before Legion launched. Someone saying that if you race ahead to level 110 spamming pet battles or whatever might screw yourself up if you didn't pickup gear along the way. I used pet battles as an extreme example since zero gear drops there, but same effect if you just have bad rng or get redundant items from spamming dungeons or such. But Legion had a good number of staggered power jump patches.
This does not happen every single expansion.

Usually there's a difficulty increase at the start of an expansion. This is offset by our characters that have old raid gear. New characters it's difficult on until some of the gear is replaced but it's doable. After that it's a basic increase in difficulty each level corresponding to a small increase in character power each level. Fighting mobs we may not see much but we can look at the previous level and the numbers and see our performance/survivability increase even if marginally.

This expansion I leveled and lost damage. Not a small amount of damage either. I lost almost 50% of my damage between 115 and 120. I went from about 4500 sustained dps at 115 to about 2800 sustained dps upon dinging 120. Let me repeat, I Iost damage as I leveled. That should NEVER happen in an RPG. They failed to do what they needed to do to keep our power relative to prior levels intact. It feels wrong.
08/16/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Celeta
Look at it this way. When you first hit 120, that's the weakest you'll be in this whole expansion.


I'm not sure how true that is this time. Mobs seem to be scaling a lot more on item level than they did in Legion. I don't feel like they're dying faster as I get more gear.
08/16/2018 06:26 PMPosted by Syledra
08/16/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Celeta
Look at it this way. When you first hit 120, that's the weakest you'll be in this whole expansion.


I'm not sure how true that is this time. Mobs seem to be scaling a lot more on item level than they did in Legion. I don't feel like they're dying faster as I get more gear.


I'm at ~306 ilvl now, enough to queue for heroics. I'm doing much better now damage-wise than I did when I dinged 120. Pets (voidwalker tanks better, requires resummon every 2-3 pulls, felguard dies for me almost every single pull) still explode to mobs. I stopped wasting time trying to heal them, then drain to heal myself, I just resummon them mid fight. I'm not certain how I would fare if I didn't have a pet to tank for me as a clothie. If my pet goes down I die very quickly so I feel for other clothies. It does seem like the ilvl scaling is a tad on the punitive side though. I think this is what they initially tried to do with Legion and people balked. Now they have a clean slate to try again, and again it doesn't feel good.
08/16/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Nyhlia
08/16/2018 06:26 PMPosted by Syledra
...

I'm not sure how true that is this time. Mobs seem to be scaling a lot more on item level than they did in Legion. I don't feel like they're dying faster as I get more gear.


I'm at ~306 ilvl now, enough to queue for heroics. I'm doing much better now damage-wise than I did when I dinged 120. Pets (voidwalker tanks better, requires resummon every 2-3 pulls, felguard dies for me almost every single pull) still explode to mobs. I stopped wasting time trying to heal them, then drain to heal myself, I just resummon them mid fight. I'm not certain how I would fare if I didn't have a pet to tank for me as a clothie. If my pet goes down I die very quickly so I feel for other clothies. It does seem like the ilvl scaling is a tad on the punitive side though. I think this is what they initially tried to do with Legion and people balked. Now they have a clean slate to try again, and again it doesn't feel good.


They knew this wasn't what people wanted. And so they waited and now they're trying it again, despite knowing people don't want mobs to scale on item level so much.

It's like they never learn.
This is clearly intentional. There was lots of feedback about this in the beta, and there was no response from devs.
To all the people complaining about getting weaker. Rather than complain, perhaps come up with some suggestions?

Before you do that lets look at why we feel weaker. Secondary stat rating-to-percentage decays as you level up. This is why you get weaker. You start as 110, overgeared with something like 30% crit, 15% haste, 25% mastery, varying depending on peoples gear and class obviously. Those percentages will be roughly halved by 120, due to the stat decay and questing gear not being as powerful as raiding gear we went into the xpac with.

So now lets look at potential suggestions/solutions:

Remove the stat decay - Multiple problems with this solution. Firstly, removing the stat decay would mean that with questing gear scaling up as we level, we will continue getting stronger and stronger as we level up. Doesnt sound like a problem right? Well, it also means that the general difficulty in mobs as you level needs to increase faster to compensate, in order to avoid everything being a cake walk. Some may want it to be a cake walk, but that is not blizzards intention.

Secondly, what happens at max level? levelling up with no stat decay will mean after starting with large percentages of crit, haste etc, they will be even higher by max level. And once we start moving into mythic dungeons and raiding, they will get much higher again. While im sure running around with 75% crit, haste etc would be fun for a while, it isnt exactly logical is it? And what happens at the next xpac? does that continue until we all have 100% of all secondary stats?

So after thinking about the above, im sure most people will agree that the stat decay is a necessity.

If anyone else has any ideas on how to solve the feeling of getting weaker as you level, feel free to share them. I cannot see any that will not negatively impact gameplay at max level and into the future, and max level play should always take priority over levelling up.
08/16/2018 07:30 PMPosted by Frostynub
To all the people complaining about getting weaker. Rather than complain, perhaps come up with some suggestions?


You do realize they dealt with this type of thing every single expansion right? And the solution wasn't to make people objectively less powerful the moment they dinged. They could have tweaked the numbers in a lot of different ways so that while content scaled up in difficulty to allow room to grow progression our relative power compared to previous levels remained intact. They instead scaled up the world and didn't descale us (or if they did it wasn't as extreme and the increase wasn't entirely offset by the decrease). You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. Math isn't hard. Well...for some people.
I have to concur with OP.

While I understand things scale now and we're just starting the expansion, when I first stepped foot into a dungeon things went really smooth. This morning, shortly after I hit 120, I had a quest which involved a dungeon and ran it.

Needless to say, it was a bit of a nightmare. The healer was your average complainer and was expressing their disproval at my tanking skills, which prompted me to inform him "it's too early to respond to stupid questions." After he asked if I was going to taunt or hold aggro.

Hopefully things start turning around sooner rather than later. Till then, I'm just gonna keep my nose to the grinder knocking out all the exploration and content, cause I know it's going to be a major part of pathfinder.

In the meantime, dungeons suck for a tank.
I remember being level 67 in Outlands and still using BWL gear because it was better than the stuff I was finding. This is nothing new.
Yep.
When I started questing at 110 I was powerful and fast. Once I hit level 120 it started taking forever to down enemies and still does even though I'm doing Heroic dungeons now.
I'm trying to do all the quests so I'm still questing at 120 and died on a pirate ship from enemies way too strong for me...... suddenly.
Of course I was sent to the graveyard which I did find hilarious because he told me,
"Awe..... Poor thing..... Looks like dat blink didn't get ya very far."
LOL
So anyway, I looked at my crit and haste and noticed it had dropped down so quickly and so dramatically where I feel desperate for haste! It takes forever to cast just a fireball now!

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