The Horde needs to be Dismantled

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Don't worry OP, Blizzard seems to be working full time on dismantling the Horde for the sake of the Alliance story.
08/12/2018 08:01 AMPosted by Degas
08/12/2018 07:56 AMPosted by Ivalesse

How could a character whose methods made even Garrosh horrified possibly not "fall into the same plot trap" as he did?


She hasn't started segregating the Horde or start proclaiming that the Forsaken are the only ones worthy of the Horde... so, she's still a better Warchief than Garrosh right now.


Did the Horde rebel due to Garrosh's racist tyranny, or his faction war? I've seen Horde fans argue both in the past.
Can someone explain why a topic as stupid as this has over a hundred replies and seven pages?

Do people really not remember that this is first and foremost a game and they aren’t going to delete a faction that contains half their subscriberbase just because you want to RP as a human Paladin?
08/12/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Arlifrex
08/12/2018 08:01 AMPosted by Degas
...

She hasn't started segregating the Horde or start proclaiming that the Forsaken are the only ones worthy of the Horde... so, she's still a better Warchief than Garrosh right now.


Did the Horde rebel due to Garrosh's racist tyranny, or his faction war? I've seen Horde fans argue both in the past.
A little of both to be honest but the main deal breaker was the assaination attempt on Vol'jin and marshal law being declared in sen'jin village. After that it was a fire storm.
And to think we have to endure another two years of posts like these...

Great. Just fantastic.
08/12/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Vecardris
And to think we have to endure another two years of posts like these...

Great. Just fantastic.


lmao jus don't b evil
08/12/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Arlifrex

Did the Horde rebel due to Garrosh's racist tyranny, or his faction war? I've seen Horde fans argue both in the past.


Being an Orc supremacist and trying to kill Vol'jin were really my only complaints against Garrosh as Warchief.
08/12/2018 09:26 AMPosted by Erinesong
lmao jus don't b evil


Cause we players write the story, amrite?

I see his point didn´t even reach your ears...
08/12/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Ariël
08/12/2018 09:26 AMPosted by Erinesong
lmao jus don't b evil


Cause we players write the story, amrite?

I see his point didn´t even reach your ears...


That was the joke.
08/12/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Vecardris
And to think we have to endure another two years of posts like these...

Great. Just fantastic.


Oh, it's going to be way more than two years. Material for Horde-bashing lives way past the content's expiration. It even survives being retconned, like the fight between Doomhammer and Lothar.

08/12/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Ariël
08/12/2018 09:26 AMPosted by Erinesong
lmao jus don't b evil


Cause we players write the story, amrite?

I see his point didn´t even reach your ears...


You may not write the story but you do choose to not reroll to the faction with acceptable behavior. So you're voting with your feet, in effect, and hence can be fully blamed for the evil in the writing.
08/12/2018 03:32 PMPosted by Ronstin
but you do choose to not reroll to the faction with acceptable behavior.

That's the silliest logic I've ever seen.

So, in order for it to not be my fault, I need to abandon a character I've invested years into, or pay 30+ dollars for a faction change?
Every single expansion (aside from WOD and Legion where factions took a back seat), the Horde is always back at square one: justifying their existence to the Alliance.

And once again, it's impossible for the Alliance to do any wrong because all they have to do is point at a list called "How the Horde did wrong," and that's all the reason they need, and it doesn't even have to be a big reason, but now they have one. No matter what the Alliance does now, there's always going to be someone saying "the Horde is awful, and everything is justified," that's what Blizzard does. Like it or not, everyone is expected to play by the Alliance's rules: there is nothing in the game where the tables are flipped and you see how the Alliance absolutely wronged the Horde, or how the Alliance owes the Horde for anything.

A large part of me, the writer, is definitely interested in what Blizzard will do next. Also, new raid content, so there is that.

The other part of me, the one that studies colonialism and imperialist movements and currently reading about Sweden's Nordic Resistance Movement, knows exactly what kind of veiled racism is going to happen, and it's not even against the Horde as monsters, but just savage, filthy, uncivilized, unkempt, vengeful, violent, twisted, godless, barely human, diseased, accursed, mongrel, primitive, lesser races who don't even know the value of life against the pure of heart, young, blonde-haired blue-eyed King who represents the very best of “humanity.”

I've seen this story before, and if you're on the wrong side of history, it's not a pretty one because the Horde is too stupid to do things "the right way."

We know what the primary races of the Horde are based on: Jamaicans, Native Americans, and some amalgamation of the horseback-riding barbarian tribes of the East. Noble savages...who were colonized, displaced, enslaved, or utterly wiped out by the very civilizations that the Alliance is based on...using the exact same reasons the Alliance has always looked down the Horde. It's not just fantasy but racism used to justify why people need to die, stories and histories about great white explorers and hunters blazing a trail through the darkness of the new world and ridding themselves of those alien, mongrel, lesser races who weren't servile enough to sell themselves out for peace.

What I'm saying is, no matter what happens in BFA, no matter which faction you play, we're going to get the same story every single time: the results might be different, but the pendulum always swings back to the start because the core reason is never going to change. The Horde is made up of thieves, murderers, and savages as cruel and brutal as the world, and the Alliance is the light. The Horde is indiscriminate about the death and destruction they cause, and Blizzard loves shoving this idea down everyone's throats: how better to illustrate that the filthy mongrels of the Horde don't deserve to live than a little bit of mass murder?

In real life, I’m a descendant of one of those unkempt, swarthy, filthy savage countries that spent decades justifying their worth to the very people who tried to conquer it, so I have heard this story before, countless times, in print, in film, and music. Right now, one of the favorite themes in Chinese and Japanese cinema is of the plucky Asian martial artist going up against the Westerner occupying their lands. That's why I connected with the Horde so quickly - they're the underdog and they're always going to looked down upon for being what they are by people who have no idea how good they have it. I don't blame the people at Blizzard for giving the moral high ground to the Alliance - after all, they're a bunch of white people writing what they know - but did they really think someone wouldn't connect the dots on what is essentially a remake of Westerners justifying why they enslaved, occupied, and colonized over most of world?

Not sure why I'm venting about it: after fourteen years of this, I doubt Blizzard's ever going to get tired of telling the same story. It's what they know best, after all.
No one suffers more from the Alliance's racism than the Undead, Forsaken or DK.
The Burning of the Tree was nothing comparing to the slaughter and persecution we suffer on daily basis.

Sylvanas just showed that this can go both ways. And she really is protecting and preserving her people.

She couldn't hold the tree as was numerous times explained. And leting it, would empower an already powerful Alliance.
08/12/2018 03:56 PMPosted by Rokugan
08/12/2018 03:32 PMPosted by Ronstin
but you do choose to not reroll to the faction with acceptable behavior.

That's the silliest logic I've ever seen.

So, in order for it to not be my fault, I need to abandon a character I've invested years into, or pay 30+ dollars for a faction change?


If you don't WANT to be an evil rabid genocidal affront to Azeroth, the Alliance is there for you. And since the Alliance is there for you if you don't want that, if you're still choosing to play Horde. . . well certain conclusions just must be drawn. You monster.
Logically the Horde should not be allowed to exist, but for gameplay purposes they endure.

08/12/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Ronstin
If you don't WANT to be an evil rabid genocidal affront to Azeroth, the Alliance is there for you. And since the Alliance is there for you if you don't want that, if you're still choosing to play Horde. . . well certain conclusions just must be drawn. You monster.
\
Please tell me this is sarcasm.
It’s impossible to tell.
Just disoleving the Horde. NO

If we really are ending the faction war for the foreseeable future with this expansion there seems to be a few options.

A. Horde wins and then falls apart due to infighting over how to deal with the former Alliance members. Political lines are then redrawn. (Alliance could maybe also work but seems less likely without a time skip)

B. Horde and Alliance fight each other to a bloody stalemate where they've rendered each other unable to resist new factions rising up, and players of Alliance and Horde get to chose between these new political entities at the end of the next expansions leveling content where we would get to know the new factions.

C. Horde and Alliance both lose to a third party such as Nzoth getting free and rebuilding the Black Empire or Azshara (betraying Nzoth and killing him) unleashing the full might of the Naga while using the void powers she picked up over the years to take over the Old God insect races.

D. We fail and Azeroth is dead, leaving the planet crumbling into another Outland forcing us to build our own world gateway to one of the few nonvoided worlds left and the PC and/or our races end up having to take sides with the major powers of this new world to gain the land needed to evacuate our remaining peoples.

E. More time travel shenanigans where somebody tries to stop the modern faction wars from ever happening. Alternatively maybe we reach the point at which the Infinite Dragon Flight was formed and their first act that leads them to the corruption we've seen is something major such as to try and let Azeroth have time to heal they throw all the intelligent races out of time/into the future.

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