Horde leaders are guilty by association

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The fact that Lor’themar could stand next to the fleeing Sylvanas with his shoulders held high with not an ounce of doubt or shame speaks VOLUMES about who he is as a character.

This is the same group that ousted their own leader Kael’thas who only allied with the Burning Legion. Kael didn’t even go out of his way to slaughter civilians at that point.

Lor’themar apparently thinks it’s okay to defend the witch whose civilian kill count is only rivaled by Arthas himself.

Alleria was right about Lor’themar - he’s the pitiful lapdog of a genocidal maniac. It’s even more funny when he has the gall to call the void elves traitors without a trace of irony. The same elves who predicted the atrocities that the horde would commit and didn’t want anything to do with it. The elves who ended up on the right side of history.

Lor’themar should pay for his complicity in inflicting and defending the same thing that Arthas did to his people and homeland. The hypocrisy is astounding -a distinct trait that makes the Blood Elves who they are-.

If anything supports the evilness of the Light this expansion, it’s the Blood Elves’ newly light blessed eyes, taking the lives of civilians and using the light to defend those who only want to see the world seeped in death and shadow.

It is time for this tragic shell of a leader to go the way of the wind.
You didn't notice anything odd about his appearance there? Well, more something that was missing?
All Horde characters are now guilty by association.
This is the same group that ousted their own leader Kael’thas who only allied with the Burning Legion. Kael didn’t even go out of his way to slaughter civilians at that point.
Only the Burning Legion, which was trying to destroy the planet (which invariable would include Blood Elf civilians)? The one he was trying to let in by using the Sunwell, the keystone of their culture?

08/09/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Gerttie
whose civilian kill count is only rivaled by Arthas himself.
Pretty sure Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Sargeras, and most of the Pantheon could number higher.

08/09/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Gerttie
The same elves who predicted the atrocities that the horde would commit and didn’t want anything to do with it.
They left because they were kicked out.

08/09/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Gerttie
go the way of the wind
Not sure that's how you use that idiom.
Don't act like the Alliance wouldn't have maintained a peace with Genn and Jaina still around.

War was inevitable. Sylvanas was right. Jaina was going to Undercity REGARDLESS. She didn't even know about Teldrassil, even.

What do you think would have happened then?
Kael'thas allied with demons from the burning legion. That is by all standards enough to lose any faith in him.

As far as void elves ending up on the "right side" of history, that's debatable at best. Whoever wins is the "right side", as the other side is dead.

The Horde may have committed atrocities to spark this war, but this war was coming either way. Sylvanas just started it off with a victory for the Horde, instead of waiting to see what happened.

Some in the Horde may want peace, some may want war. But all of the Horde want the Horde to thrive. So far, it's hard to argue that we're not winning.
08/09/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Yagarr
All Horde characters are now guilty by association.
What about Jeremiah Payson?
08/09/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Gerttie
The fact that Lor’themar could stand next to the fleeing Sylvanas with his shoulders held high with not an ounce of doubt or shame speaks VOLUMES about who he is as a character.


Agreed, the Alliance should absolutely be pursuing a mission of total extermination against all Horde leaders. They shouldn't succeed mind you, but I think having to pick between working for Sylvanas or being killed just might give the Horde the unity it needs to make it through this expansion without a civil war.
08/09/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Yagarr
All Horde characters are now guilty by association.


Lok'tar Ogar.
08/09/2018 08:48 AMPosted by Shiftable
Don't act like the Alliance wouldn't have maintained a peace with Genn and Jaina still around.

War was inevitable. Sylvanas was right. Jaina was going to Undercity REGARDLESS. She didn't even know about Teldrassil, even.

What do you think would have happened then?

The horde would have been stamped out like it should have been after SoO. And like it should have been by Proudmoore. And like it should have been after the second war.
08/09/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Gerttie
This is the same group that ousted their own leader Kael’thas who only allied with the Burning Legion. Kael didn’t even go out of his way to slaughter civilians at that point.


Pretty sure lorewise they were still with Kael up until Kael attacked Silvermoon to steal Muuru

08/09/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Yagarr
All Horde characters are now guilty by association.


The Horde PC most of all. We actively used the Blight
Their handling of Lor'themar is atrocious. He was the first Horde leader to worry about where Sylvanas would take the Horde, way back in MoP; he's a character who's disliked and distrusted her ever since seeing her true colors back in In the Shadow of the Sun; he's threatened to kill her, to her face if she did her necromancy on Horde troops in SoO, and was described by Blizzard as a guy whose bad experiences with tyrants have led him to "seek out and oppose tyranny and injustice" whenever he can.

So of course, in BfA, he's nothing more than this genocidal monster's mindless yes-man. What an utter joke. There's no respect or consideration for any of his prior characterization.

The worst part is I don't think the writers gave it any thought at all. They're ruining this character - a character they, or perhaps others, built up so well in MoP - through sheer ignorance. I mean, he's an elf on the Horde, and she's an elf on the Horde, so they've gotta be buds, right? Garbage.
Of course he had his head held high. He understands the importance of good posture.

All the horde is guilty by association. I have no idea why your fixating on Lor'themar.

08/09/2018 08:52 AMPosted by Maevara
The horde would have been stamped out like it should have been after SoO. And like it should have been by Proudmoore. And like it should have been after the second war.


I have a feeling your going to be very disappointed when all this ends.
08/09/2018 08:44 AMPosted by Lena
You didn't notice anything odd about his appearance there? Well, more something that was missing?


Yes, his spine.
08/09/2018 08:57 AMPosted by Syriyna
Of course he had his head held high. He understands the importance of good posture.

All the horde is guilty by association. I have no idea why your fixating on Lor'themar.


Not only is he a leader but considering his background with the scourge and Arthas, it makes his compliance and support that much worse in comparison to the other horde races.
08/09/2018 08:51 AMPosted by Salvamar
08/09/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Yagarr
All Horde characters are now guilty by association.
What about Jeremiah Payson?


Basically the equivalent of a loyal German civilian during WW2.
08/09/2018 08:57 AMPosted by Foxley
08/09/2018 08:44 AMPosted by Lena
You didn't notice anything odd about his appearance there? Well, more something that was missing?


Yes, his spine.


No. Blood elf soldiers.

He personally went to Undercity, but he did not commit any of his forces to it.

Keep watching him. He's not one to outright oppose the warchief directly. See how many blood elf soldiers he commits to Zandalar and the war campaign, you'll see a pattern.
08/09/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Gerttie
Not only is he a leader but considering his background with the scourge and Arthas, it makes his compliance and support that much worse in comparison to the other horde races.


No it really doesn't. You make it sound like none of the other leaders have dealt with tyrants and villains.

Frankly he is pretty much a background character in all of this. He only turned up for the Battle for Lordaeron, which makes sense since it is the only other major Horde stronghold in the Eastern Kingdoms and it falling puts Silvermoon at risk and we see literally nothing of his internal dialog and thinking. Lor'themar tends to be reserved and strategic in politics. He isn't going to be standing there raving at Sylvanas and waving his hands around in the wake of a battle against the Alliance.

I am not exactly sure what you expected him to do.
08/09/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Yagarr
08/09/2018 08:51 AMPosted by Salvamar
... What about Jeremiah Payson?

Basically the equivalent of a loyal German civilian during WW2.
He sells roaches for fifty silver each in a sewer.
08/09/2018 09:10 AMPosted by Syriyna
08/09/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Gerttie
Not only is he a leader but considering his background with the scourge and Arthas, it makes his compliance and support that much worse in comparison to the other horde races.


No it really doesn't. You make it sound like none of the other leaders have dealt with tyrants and villains.

Frankly he is pretty much a background character in all of this. He only turned up for the Battle for Lordaeron, which makes sense since it is the only other major Horde stronghold in the Eastern Kingdoms and it falling puts Silvermoon at risk and we see literally nothing of his internal dialog and thinking. Lor'themar tends to be reserved and strategic in politics. He isn't going to be standing there raving at Sylvanas and waving his hands around in the wake of a battle against the Alliance.

I am not exactly sure what you expected him to do.


He could have been like Jaina who had a conscience and not assisted/enabled in the slaughter of innocents when someone she was close to asked her for her support.

But I guess the Blood Elves are ABOVE empathy.

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