Did BFA need to be an expansion?

General Discussion
08/23/2018 12:26 AMPosted by Tentaclatrix
People calling BFA a "big patch" are simply idiots.


This 100%.

We aren't even two weeks in and some nitwits in the forums are screaming like a bunch of spoiled babies.

Still, it makes for some amusing threads. I always keep a tub of popcorn ready and just watch the tears flow.
08/23/2018 01:35 AMPosted by Tetsubin
<span class="truncated">...</span>Nothing is stale about zone design in BfA. They've actually shaken things up quite a bit with fewer larger zones, more elaborate stories, separate faction starting areas, secret bases (including more to unlock through missions) in enemy territory, and random islands all over... BfA zone design is fresh and innovative. Calling it stale is just being a curmudgeon.


Agreed. Of the things to criticize about this expansion, I really don’t think zone design is one of them.

Like there’s a lot I dislike about class design at the moment, but the zones and questing have been so good that it honestly kind of surprised me. I haven’t enjoyed leveling so much since MoP.
I agree that if there are concerns about BfA, it is in class design. The fun of all the new stuff has distracted from it so far, and my mates and I are still having fun running dungeons, but there are ??? for a few classes. Brewmaster escaped mostly unscathed, so I've been fine. My feral buddy was very relieved to hear this week's news about some buffs. And many are hoping their specs will feel better with some better gear and more haste.
08/23/2018 01:27 AMPosted by Tentaclatrix
have been here for literally EVERY launch EXCEPT wrath. That includes vanilla. I know exactly how a launch goes.


Your earliest achievement is 2010.
08/22/2018 11:23 PMPosted by Dedkalm
It's the stale zone design that's really holding this xpac back.

It's a consequence of pathfinder.

People like to talk about removing flight like the reason that (good old) Blizzard put it into the game was just to skip over everything, but it was actually added as an asset for pushing the envelope on creative zone design.

Hence us getting it at 77, below level cap in WotLK, so that we could use it to properly traverse and explore Storm Peaks and Icecrown, which were both made to showcase flight. Can you imagine how much more creative, immersive and just generally fun exploring the world would be if that zone design philosophy were still on the board? With all the new art assets this game has gotten since way back in 2008?

Sadly, WotLk was also when Activision entered the picture. They don't like flight. Makes xpacs more expensive to make with the vertical tiers of explorable content and whatnot. So they immediately dialed it back to little more than a self-piloted taxi service instead of pushing those limits in Cataclysm. Did it again in MoP. And then tried to remove flight altogether in WoD. "To make the game better for the players". PR BS.


Which is complete bollocks, considering so much of Wrath and TBC are vast and empty. That's why they are so big just to account for your faster move speed. Also makes them feel lonely. If you look at the actual size of the minimap -all scaled to the same size in terms of pixels, TBC and Wrath are the largest near 17. Draenor is close at 15 million. Everything else in the game is closer to like 11 or 12 million pixels.
...

Agreed. Of the things to criticize about this expansion, I really don’t think zone design is one of them.

Like there’s a lot I dislike about class design at the moment, but the zones and questing have been so good that it honestly kind of surprised me. I haven’t enjoyed leveling so much since MoP.
I agree that if there are concerns about BfA, it is in class design. The fun of all the new stuff has distracted from it so far, and my mates and I are still having fun running dungeons, but there are ??? for a few classes. Brewmaster escaped mostly unscathed, so I've been fine. My feral buddy was very relieved to hear this week's news about some buffs. And many are hoping their specs will feel better with some better gear and more haste.


Yeah, same...I kind of forgot about it for the first week because the new content was so great (I found leveling in WoD and Legion a little lackluster even the first time through, so I’m excited to see Blizzard’s still “got it”) but then it started sinking in that if I take the projected best raid talents, my main’s rotation has literally five buttons. Including cooldowns.

It’s the same rotation as Legion, but it’s like they removed two talent rows in the form of Legion legendaries, and also removed the artifact ability, and none of my Azerite traits change my rotation at all.

I’m just worried about how I’ll have fun playing something that’s just a more barebones version of what I was playing before. Maybe I’ll change specs and that will help...
I'm not sure what's with all of the negativity about content.

We have 2 islands with 3 zones each. All zones are literally saturated with content, but you have to play the game and increase faction reputation in order to continue certain storyline features.

They are gating warfronts fo allow people to catch up gear wise.

I don't want to many things thrown at me this early in the game. They released raids too quickly in legion and it stopped me from progressing in raids, and i just ended up committing to mythic plus dungeons.

I think it's a very good move to time gate certain features. Not all, but some to allow people that don't have as much time as others do to catch up.

I have a job that gives me lots of time to play, and I have been playing BFA non stop due to enjoyment. But I can't imagine someone catching up with so much content out currently with only 2 hours to play the game a day.
08/23/2018 12:14 AMPosted by Kirvin
First endgame zone combo PVE/PVP where hopefully warmode will actually matter
This crap literally never works. Wintersgrasp, Ashran, Legion PvP Worldquests.
They're always completely unbalanced due to server faction populations. The majority of people only play them because they are incentivized out the wazoo. They are always 100% abandoned and obsolesced the millisecond a new xpac drops.
I'm enjoying it so far but I base my overall enjoyment on raids. I cant say I care a bunch for the Az traits because they are passive and boring because of it. Other than that its been fun.
I'm the OP and I never said this expansion felt like a big patch. Not sure why everyone latched onto that argument. I said it doesn't really advance the lore, doesn't add anything new and exciting, and doesn't fix anything that was wrong, so other than being wrapped up in a pretty exterior, it feels like an expansion for expansions sake. I think overall we've moved backawrds since Legion which left on a high note. It has nothing to do with quantity of content.
08/23/2018 05:21 AMPosted by Archos
I'm the OP and I never said this expansion felt like a big patch. Not sure why everyone latched onto that argument. I said it doesn't really advance the lore, doesn't add anything new and exciting, and doesn't fix anything that was wrong, so other than being wrapped up in a pretty exterior, it feels like an expansion for expansions sake. I think overall we've moved backawrds since Legion which left on a high note. It has nothing to do with quantity of content.
Kul Tiras and Zandalaar have been important parts of Warcraft lore from the beginning, and we are finally getting to explore them! How is that not advancing the lore?

Azshara is one of the great villains in all the history of Azeroth, and now we will be confronting her. How is that not advancing the lore?

The Void and Old Gods have always been one of the existential threats to our world, even greater than the Legion, and we know they are back again. How is that not advancing the lore?

On top of all that, two great family dramas are working themselves out: the Proudmores and the Horde. As the course of both families gets resolved, that will most definitely drive the lore!
08/23/2018 10:30 PMPosted by Kolee
Kul Tiras and Zandalaar have been important parts of Warcraft lore from the beginning, and we are finally getting to explore them! How is that not advancing the lore?

Azshara is one of the great villains in all the history of Azeroth, and now we will be confronting her. How is that not advancing the lore?

The Void and Old Gods have always been one of the existential threats to our world, even greater than the Legion, and we know they are back again. How is that not advancing the lore?

On top of all that, two great family dramas are working themselves out: the Proudmores and the Horde. As the course of both families gets resolved, that will most definitely drive the lore!


That's a fair rebuttal. A better way to say it would be that, for me, the lore advancement is weak compared to say Wrath, MoP, or TBC. It's one of the first expansions where the quest text and cut scene stories were "meh" and felt contrived, but to each their own and I respect your opinion.
08/22/2018 11:06 PMPosted by Edisbelee
remember people saying the same thing back at legion release first weeks...
One of the most annoying association fallacies I run into, on almost a daily basis.
Look it up, association fallacy, stop doing it.

@OP In some ways I agree, mechanically I BfA is frankly a step backwards in several ways. Some classes were definitely mechanically improved, but more have suffered from the loss of key stats and abilities from their artifact weapon that really held them together.
Azerite is a trash system in just so many ways.
No new talent tier, worse pvp talent system.

Idk if Blizzard realizes that 100% of our actual in-combat playtime is spent playing our class. We're not paying them to make a Goldshire simulator, well most of us arent.
If your classes feel bad the whole game feels bad, the classes are almost the entire point of being here. They should really put a lot more time and work into them, and stop reinventing/breaking classes that are already fun and effective.

On the upside, they ditched Holinka and his ineptly implemented class templates. Thats going to immeasurably improve my game experience.

I also really like the zones, questing, and story. I didnt really dislike the Legion story, other than the fact that it felt like I was playing a Marvel comicbook, but the new story is also very fun, at least on a micro scale. On a macro scale WoW is always going to have a big patchwork retconned convoluted and contrived excuse for why we do what we do each xpac. All the fun is in playing through the quests and story on a micro scale and thats intact.

The art is, as usual, amazing for what can be done on an engine from pre-2004. The art team is consistently the most skilled department at Blizzard and some of the best in the industry. Kudos.

Dungeon and encounter design feels good to me so far. Lots of mechanics, the mechanics are easy to intuit, not cheesy, effective, worth dealing with. Mythic+ will be something to look forward to.

Idk, In terms of the actual premise of the OP, whether this was worth an expansion:
-I only got 3 zones, and they're not large. I dont play cross-faction and neither do a lot of people, so thats a huge downgrade.

-They added new races, but they pissed a bunch of people off by making them go grind old content for a month in order to unlock them. Obviously trying to take advantage of the good will of the playerbase to milk out some more sub weeks.

-We didnt really get any new talents or abilities. They rehashed some old ones, brought some back as talents and such. Every expansion to date has advanced our power, given us new and interesting tools, besides the hated WoD where they pruned the fuk out of us because they hate us. This expansion we get jack, besides a lot of classes suffering from having their artifacts pruned.

-The professions arent good, but they havent been good for a very long time so idk what we were expecting.

-The removal of the raid tier sets means theres considerably less good transmog this xpac, thats a bummer.

-The Azerite mechanic is, as stated, absolute horseloaf. A horrible imbalanced uninspired mess that we had to sacrifice tons of secondary stats for. Whoever came up with this should probably be fired. There are some people who damage an organization just by being a part of it.

On whole, I think I have to agree with the OP, in at least what we have received so far is not worth the full $60 value of an expansion, at all. Alot less content than usual, mediocre to poor class design and balancing, mechanics being worsened rather than improved. If this was a steam game I would have to advise people to wait for a good 25-50% sale. While im enjoying a good deal of the content thats there, I have to accept that I definitely got cheated out of my money.
08/23/2018 12:26 AMPosted by Tentaclatrix
People calling BFA a "big patch" are simply idiots.
Pretty sad when the only way to refuse someone's argument is to call them names. You realize that actually strengthens their argument, right?
Heck yes it needed to be it’s own expansion. New story, different direction(feels like we are explorers again) new content, and a different vibe altogether. I really enjoyed legion but this is definitely new!
08/24/2018 04:23 PMPosted by Misery
They added new races, but they pissed a bunch of people off by making them go grind old content for a month in order to unlock them. Obviously trying to take advantage of the good will of the playerbase to milk out some more sub weeks.


There were about 3 different ways they could have handled the new allied races, and they chose the version that punished the customers the most.
08/22/2018 11:10 PMPosted by Psyløck
Feels more like some f2p "big patch"

The people saying this need to try one of those "big patches" from F2P games and show me one that comes close to BfA in size.
Granted, I haven't played much of the expansion, But knowing what I know so far, I'm wondering what the end goal is here. In legion, it was clear that we had to get rid of Sargeras and the demons. I don't feel there is a clear end boss here.
08/24/2018 08:21 PMPosted by Archos
There were about 3 different ways they could have handled the new allied races, and they chose the version that punished the customers the most.

Well, they didn't go with random chances from paid loot boxes or any options that would have required money spent beyond just playing the game.
08/24/2018 08:29 PMPosted by Rankin

Well, they didn't go with random chances from paid loot boxes or any options that would have required money spent beyond just playing the game.


Ah, you don't need to buy the BfA expansion to get Allied races? My apologies then, thought it was part of the $60 expansion.
I'm actually pretty surprised by these comments. I have 2 classes 120 , I love these zones and story. The atmosphere and music as well. Only thing I'm not fond of is all the world quests but you can simply just not do them. Itches at my skin when I don't though.

I'm enjoying all the hidden bits of content and places. I enjoyed doing the baa'l pebble hunt as well. I'm not enjoying Island expedition. It seems like a half baked idea but something in the right direction. It needs to be expanded upon. Also, feels quite gimped if you don't have a healer or tank. Pretty rough without them.

I think I'll enjoy it more when warfronts release and I'd like multiple war fronts. I'd love one in kalimdor with a night elf theme. Maybe Astranaar with a beefed up defense? Something similar in Silvermoon or something as well. Breathe life into old zones.

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