Metzen on how NOT to act as a fan

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I don't owe cretins one iota of consideration for their garbage opinions, thanks. That includes you.


Oh boy. Oh boy. You.. You.. I see you for what you are. haha.
This is rich. So good.
Keep going son. Fan those flames. Stoke that fire. Get your rush.
Entertain me.

Oh and come back again in 15 - 20 to count the pages again since thats what matters most to you, clearly.

Try not to be so transparent.

Now...
Pause...

That's it ..
Pause .. and think.

Theeere you go. You got it. :)

Think really hard and come up with that oh so witty retort.

Short..Long.. one line or several.

I'll help you. Here are your options. Ready?

A. Ignore me
B. Short response in the vein of "whatever looser" or something
C. Long answer where you attempt an empty personal insult
D. None of the above

ugh...
It's understandable to be upset and emotional about a game that some of us have been playing for over 10+ years.

I've read all the books, and I'm a huge Shaman nerd. I even have a tattoo of the shaman emblem IRL. In a perfect world for me, Thrall would still be Warchief and he would pass it on to his children who would follow his words of Honor.

However, things happen. I personally think Horde's lore has been severely sloppy and poorly thought out. Garrosh could of have been interesting, but they turned him into a Villian despite the events of Stonetalon Mountains and Cairne's Mak'Gora that showed him as honorable.

Voljin died to a trash mob and he did absolutely nothing in WoD when he was Warchief

I don't agree with Blizzard's writing at all these past few years. However, It is never okay to IRL threaten directors and writers over a game. It's just sad that some of the community has stooped that low.
08/10/2018 08:37 AMPosted by Zugnificent
08/10/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Magikcool

again, just because YOU don't like it, does not make it bad writing.


And just because YOU like it/respect it, does not make it good writing.

See how worthwhile that argument is?


See how you totally didn't counter anything, or do you actually think you've made a point?

Because even if, for the sake of argument, we conclude that you did, the argument becomes: "like it or not, it's still writing." Which I suspect is antithetical to whatever nonsense you were actually trying to convey.

08/10/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Demonflayer
The post you quoted was correct and you're just dumb.


Would you mind elaborating on why you feel this way?


Yes.
08/10/2018 08:52 AMPosted by Magikcool
I think its a very creative way to tell the story.


How is it creative? This point does not make any sense. Using books to help tell a story in another medium isnt new, however you are supposed to leave enough context in each medium, that the story stays thematically consistent. It is, objectively, thematically different how the story plays out in the novella vs how it plays out in the game.

I feel as if they really couldnt do anything, to make you think they have made mistakes.

08/10/2018 08:52 AMPosted by Magikcool
I understand lots don't like it this way, but im not gonna go threatening Christie golden over it.


Come off it. What % of people who play WoW actually did that? Less then .5%? The only reason you bring that up, is to distract from your argument. The in game story can not hold up on its own, so far. It needed outside help to be understandable. You being ok with the same events happening, but in different ways between different mediums does not, in fact, make it good story telling. There are literally hundreds(probably thousands) of research papers, thesis, and ect detailing why you need consistency in your writing. You dont get to skip out on in game consistency, just because you have consistency in another medium and then call it proper story telling.
I consider myself a fan.

Often I'll defend Blizzard. Okay in fact usually I'll defend Blizzard.

Part of being a fan though, is pointing out problems too. The Sylvanas writing has problems and it's a duty of a good fan to report that.
08/10/2018 04:06 AMPosted by Crepe
08/10/2018 02:33 AMPosted by Garrondorf
I'm sorry, Metzen defended the slow-motion train wreck that was the latest star wars. His opinions are now invalid to me.

'Tis a shame. He was pretty top tier in my book up until this.


I saw this in the thread and I just wanted to add a few cents..

It's OK to disagree with people. To have different opinions. To debate those differences and find common ground or even just agree to disagree.

But this whole "everything they say from now on is invalid" over a single instance of disagreement? That's... inane. Childish. Ridiculous. Damaging to yourself. That kind of inflexibility is limiting and isn't something you should espouse or feel good about.

Disagree. That's awesome. Feel like you need to be convinced of things. That's even better. But the whole bunker mentality thing? Lose it. You'll be better for it.
We need more of this kind of talk and encouragement on here. Thanks Crepe! Keep being excellent!
08/10/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Raiyyn
08/10/2018 08:53 AMPosted by Barrison
Metzen directed his embarrassment more towards the idiots attacking devs *personally* because they don't like the story. That crap is nonsense. Christie Golden, Ion Hazzikostas, Lore... they are all great folks and while I can disagree with their decisions until I'm blue in the face, attacking them personally is ridiculous and embarrassing.

If Metzen wants to say fans shouldn't criticize writing they don't like... then, frankly, he's completely wrong and that's almost as ridiculous and embarrassing as the idiots attacking devs personally.

I love Ion. If he's in charge of story and helped direct the pre-patch events - they were a complete failure for me as they made me LESS interested in the expansion they were meant to hype up. That's criticism I'm allowed to give and he can take it or leave it.

He didn't say fans shouldn't criticize. He said basically what you said...attacking them on a personal level and going "bat-sh*t crazy" is ridiculous.


Yeah, I'm listening to the interview now - I was just reacting to what the OP said. It seems like OP put words in Metzen's mouth.
08/10/2018 08:37 AMPosted by Zugnificent
08/10/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Magikcool

again, just because YOU don't like it, does not make it bad writing.


And just because YOU like it/respect it, does not make it good writing.

See how worthwhile that argument is?


There is a difference between having constructive criticism over the "bad story" and being toxic and even going as far as threatening the people working on the story just because you don't like it. There is no way you can justify that kind of abyssmal behavior, regardless of situation.

If you don't like the bad writing, then don't play the game. But, instead you come here to complain for 15$ a month.

BTW, the story is awesome and I'm loving it. Orgrimmar is filled with ppl cheering for Sylvannas. So yea, Go play something else, and stop complaining.

FOR THE HORDE!
FOR THE FORSAKEN!
FOR SYLVANNAS!
FOR CHRIS METZEN!
08/10/2018 08:07 AMPosted by Magikcool
its a made up world, they can take things any direction they choose and anything is possible. I mean im horde for life but that ship was pretty damn cool.


This is only ever true at the very start of a story. As soon as you start exploring a fantasy world you learn about how it works and what things are possible and what things are not. If you set limits for things in a world in earlier parts of the story you have to stick with them or at least come up with compelling reasons for why things have changed. Just because its fantasy doesnt mean there are no rules, it only means the rules are different. If your work of fantasy doesnt keep internal consistency then it is a flawed work. Just as a note, most of the big fantasy stories have some flaws, some just way more so than others.


See how you totally didn't counter anything, or do you actually think you've made a point?

Because even if, for the sake of argument, we conclude that you did, the argument becomes: "like it or not, it's still writing." Which I suspect is antithetical to whatever nonsense you were actually trying to convey.


I was countering his point, which I did. He made a subjective claim, I illustrated it was subjective.

Before typing out your next witty, off-topic retort, perhaps read the other posts I've made in this thread to see the "nonsense I was actually trying to convey."

Or don't, but if not, stop replying to me, please and thank you.
I really don't care that they give creative direction- the writing is terrible. The end.
08/10/2018 09:08 AMPosted by Barrison
08/10/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Raiyyn
...
He didn't say fans shouldn't criticize. He said basically what you said...attacking them on a personal level and going "bat-sh*t crazy" is ridiculous.


Yeah, I'm listening to the interview now - I was just reacting to what the OP said. It seems like OP put words in Metzen's mouth.


This is the same OP that said(practically) anyone who disliked the Jaina scene is a sexist. Best to ignore the OP and just talk with everyone else.
Normally I am not a fan of someone telling a fan how to act but as silly as people have been over the lore recently he is right.
08/10/2018 04:06 AMPosted by Crepe
08/10/2018 02:33 AMPosted by Garrondorf
I'm sorry, Metzen defended the slow-motion train wreck that was the latest star wars. His opinions are now invalid to me.

'Tis a shame. He was pretty top tier in my book up until this.


I saw this in the thread and I just wanted to add a few cents..

It's OK to disagree with people. To have different opinions. To debate those differences and find common ground or even just agree to disagree.

But this whole "everything they say from now on is invalid" over a single instance of disagreement? That's... inane. Childish. Ridiculous. Damaging to yourself. That kind of inflexibility is limiting and isn't something you should espouse or feel good about.

Disagree. That's awesome. Feel like you need to be convinced of things. That's even better. But the whole bunker mentality thing? Lose it. You'll be better for it.


^^^^^ This!
08/10/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Airella
Normally I am not a fan of someone telling a fan how to act but as silly as people have been over the lore recently he is right.


Well, it's shameful he had to come out against people making threats to a real person.

The writing is bad, imo- but there's no excuse for attacking people because you are not a fan. That is outrageous.

He also called out WoW players for being somewhat delusional and having trouble separating fantasy from reality. There's a lot of that on the forums.

Lots of addiction and boundary issues.
Metzen defending another hack, that's rich.
Metzen defending another hack, that's rich.
I dont care about the direction Blizzard chooses to take their stories and characters. I care about if the details make sense and the writers took the time to craft the story that makes sense given the already built upon premises.

For example, I am tired of Sylvanas being portrayed as some masterful tactician. She isnt. From her time being a ranger general and quite literally getting herself killed doing the absolute worst things possible (not to mention how terrible she mangled the defense of her city) to her tactics to take Darnassus to how she played the defense of UC. She clearly is terrible at strategy. That is on the writers and them not coming up with better plans to place her in.

Another point is totally ignoring major things whose existence should be altering how things turn out. You can not just ignore Alliance superiority but treat them like they are as competent as toddlers. You need to explain why such glaringly obvious things arent present or accounted for...like the Vindicaar which should have been huge in the defense of Darkshore...or explain why the alliance didnt send scores of mages to teleport alliance reserve forces and/or teleport away civilians from the tree.

When the rules for your story/world start to break, you get agitated readers.
08/10/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Silusia
I really don't care that they give creative direction- the writing is terrible. The end.


Go play something else then, don't complain like a child.

Do you enjoy hearing others complain, about anything? Do you feel like other ppl complaining soothes your nerves and makes you happy?

If not, don't be a hypocrite. Ask yourself, "if I don't enjoy it, why do I do it myself?"
08/10/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Galabris
I dont care about the direction Blizzard chooses to take their stories and characters. I care about if the details make sense and the writers took the time to craft the story that makes sense given the already built upon premises.

For example, I am tired of Sylvanas being portrayed as some masterful tactician. She isnt. From her time being a ranger general and quite literally getting herself killed doing the absolute worst things possible (not to mention how terrible she mangled the defense of her city) to her tactics to take Darnassus to how she played the defense of UC. She clearly is terrible at strategy. That is on the writers and them not coming up with better plans to place her in.

Another point is totally ignoring major things whose existence should be altering how things turn out. You can not just ignore Alliance superiority but treat them like they are as competent as toddlers. You need to explain why such glaringly obvious things arent present or accounted for...like the Vindicaar which should have been huge in the defense of Darkshore...or explain why the alliance didnt send scores of mages to teleport alliance reserve forces and/or teleport away civilians from the tree.

When the rules for your story/world start to break, you get agitated readers.


Apparently much of what you described is on the game developers, not the story team (way to throw them under the bus, Metzen). Metzen states that game team sets events and then story team fills in the blanks.

...Except that it still doesn't apply, because "gameplay" doesn't dictate how all the dots are connected--that's on the story team, and should be their responsibility. So elements of strategy, or technicalities, or even planning videos/etc in advance, are absolutely in their wheelhouse.

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