Metzen on how NOT to act as a fan

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I think a big part of the problem, in the world not just here, is that too many people are followers. People jump on a bandwagon or ride and emotional wave not because they have any real emotional investment in the issue, but because they just want to be part of a crowd and have too much free time on their hands. We see this everywhere. From politics to social issues to movies and all the way down to a video game story line. People like pretending to be outraged and offended these days. Everything is about feelings and little of it is about logic and facts.
08/10/2018 02:32 AMPosted by Hamstar
08/10/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Lemires
Given how many people all angry and shouting "bad writing" at Blizzard while attacking Christie Golden on twitter, Metzen's words ring true.


This is a strawman. Just because some people are going over board and going after the wrong person doesn't mean it is not "bad writing".

08/10/2018 02:25 AMPosted by Zaisun
I haven't found any bad writing yet. Other than Jaina and her ghost ship.


There are so many plot holes in the story that I and others have made multiple lists.


You're missing the point. The OP is not constructing a defense of the writing, he/she is simply pointing out that disagreement with the story is not license to act like a terrible person.
What a complete pile of horse crap.

People are mad about the story because the story is crap.

1) Her logic for starting the war is insanely stupid and completely irrelevant and she says as much right at the beginning.

Her logic is that Azerite is super important, so we need to stop the Alliance from getting it from Kalimdor by occupying Teldrassil.

Which would be great, except the very first thing she says is that Azerite deposits are showing up all around the world. What good is it going to do to stop the Alliance from getting it from Kalimdor if it's available all around the world?!

2) Her plan is to kill Malfurion to demoralize the Night Elves and make it easier for them to occupy Teldrassil.

Except when she has a chance to kill him, she monologues like a Saturday Morning cartoon villain and WANDERS OFF, letting the openly remorseful Saurfang finish the job. What?!

3) Without knowing that Malfurion is alive, she gets so triggered by a dying elf girl talking about hope that she takes her prize, Teldrassil and its thousands of unarmed civilians and burns them alive. Just because.

And don't talk to me about the other stuff outside the game. I don't give a damn about outside stuff. I'm talking about the story IN THE GAME being crap.

If they want people to not be angry about the crappy writing, then they need to stop doing a crappy job of telling the story in game and stop using crutches like outside content to retcon their crappy story into making sense and stop requiring their players to go looking for story elsewhere.

If you need outside sources for your game story to make sense, then YOU WROTE A BAD IN-GAME STORY, BRUH.
08/10/2018 02:33 AMPosted by Garrondorf
I'm sorry, Metzen defended the slow-motion train wreck that was the latest star wars. His opinions are now invalid to me.

'Tis a shame. He was pretty top tier in my book up until this.


So because he likes a movie that you don't his opinion is invalid? Who are you again? Oh that's right some no one from no where while he actually accomplished something with his life. Keep on using 'tis in sentences too, I'm sure its real popular with the ladies.
08/10/2018 04:22 AMPosted by Verla
People lose respect for others - it happens and once it does it is pretty hard to consider anything they say of value. I don't see a problem with that in this case since they aren't married to that person, or friends with them or have to deal with them. You are making this sound like some kind of crime and it really isn't.


It is not a crime but it is not healthy either for society as a whole. If you lose respect for someone over a difference of opinion about a fandom there is something wrong with you.


I love when people who are pretending to be so accepting, claim there is something wrong with someone for thinking different. I disagree.
Seems like hes saying that any changes to the game whether it be story or gameplay. That players need to suck it up and deal with it. Also he tries to divert attention from the writers by placing some of the blame on the devs. The writers are the ones that create how evil or good a character is. The writers and devs never considered this blowing back at them . Gamers and movie fans are changing, the writers and devs weren't ready for it. This was a wake up call. One can question now if there having to change upcoming story before it goes live.
08/10/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Infernastorm
People are mad about the story because the story is crap.


In the interest of transparency i am neutral on the whole tree burning incident. To me the reasons for it don't connect. What i'm afraid of is this will all turn into Garrosh V2.0 and for me that would be an en extremely disappointing thing. It would indicate an example of a serious lack of imagination.

To be fair that this game has been around for 15 years or so, and so naturally one runs out of believable plot lines. There is always something that brought the factions together to fight the 'greater' foe, so perhaps Blizzard has decided to alter the Horde Factions Ethos to be the new "Bad guy". I hope not and i'm having an open mind about the burning of the tree and the BoL and there will be a purpose.

But , and there is always a 'but'

We're in a hole, You cannot paint one faction as "evil" without that having a long term effect on the game. For people who have played horde we always knew that we were perhaps more 'Grey' but there was a strong sense of Honour in the hordes reasons. If the game writers decide to abandon that then few people will really want to play the Horde Factions. And that is not healthy for the game.
[quote="207662279903"]Keep on using 'tis in sentences too, I'm sure its real popular with the ladies.


Please. Stop. Grow up.
08/10/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Eranos
08/10/2018 02:33 AMPosted by Garrondorf
I'm sorry, Metzen defended the slow-motion train wreck that was the latest star wars. His opinions are now invalid to me.

'Tis a shame. He was pretty top tier in my book up until this.


So because he likes a movie that you don't his opinion is invalid? Who are you again? Oh that's right some no one from no where while he actually accomplished something with his life. Keep on using 'tis in sentences too, I'm sure its real popular with the ladies.


I remind you Metzen was the one who changed the dark lady outfit cause he was NOT man enough to tell his daughter why she was dressed the way she was. As a woman I fet the change to her outfit was a cop out.
08/10/2018 10:31 AMPosted by Gallain
[quote]
Keep on using 'tis in sentences too, I'm sure its real popular with the ladies.


Please. Stop. Grow up.


I'll suppose you have a dog in that fight? It's not cute, it's cringey.

If everyone chooses to be combative to people based strickly on movie choice, then they can have a little taste of that back.
08/10/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Infernastorm
What a complete pile of horse crap.

People are mad about the story because the story is crap.

1) Her logic for starting the war is insanely stupid and completely irrelevant and she says as much right at the beginning.

Her logic is that Azerite is super important, so we need to stop the Alliance from getting it from Kalimdor by occupying Teldrassil.

Which would be great, except the very first thing she says is that Azerite deposits are showing up all around the world. What good is it going to do to stop the Alliance from getting it from Kalimdor if it's available all around the world?!

2) Her plan is to kill Malfurion to demoralize the Night Elves and make it easier for them to occupy Teldrassil.

Except when she has a chance to kill him, she monologues like a Saturday Morning cartoon villain and WANDERS OFF, letting the openly remorseful Saurfang finish the job. What?!

3) Without knowing that Malfurion is alive, she gets so triggered by a dying elf girl talking about hope that she takes her prize, Teldrassil and its thousands of unarmed civilians and burns them alive. Just because.

And don't talk to me about the other stuff outside the game. I don't give a damn about outside stuff. I'm talking about the story IN THE GAME being crap.

If they want people to not be angry about the crappy writing, then they need to stop doing a crappy job of telling the story in game and stop using crutches like outside content to retcon their crappy story into making sense and stop requiring their players to go looking for story elsewhere.

If you need outside sources for your game story to make sense, then YOU WROTE A BAD IN-GAME STORY, BRUH.

And to make matters worse the writers actually have the nerve to try and shift the blame on Saurfang for not killing Malfurion, when the game has taken time to establish that honor is the only thing Saurfang cares about. The writers seem to be unwilling to commit to Sylvanas being 100% the villain and aggressor and are trying, and failing, at making her into this ruthless yet tactical genius who's trying to save lives through an iron fist. She's a short-sighted fool and a Genocidal maniac.

She needs to die alone with her Forsaken forsaking her to reunite with their beloved living family. Saurfang or Baine need to then be given leadership of the Horde. God forbid these writers make Sylvanas into Illidan or Kerrigan. God PLEASE forbid.
08/10/2018 10:32 AMPosted by Corlia
I remind you Metzen was the one who changed the dark lady outfit cause he was NOT man enough to tell his daughter why she was dressed the way she was. As a woman I fet the change to her outfit was a cop out.

It's a cop out because he didn't have the heart to tell his daughter that a bunch of men designed the outfit and thought it'd be hot to show her midriff?
Metzen makes a good point. The nerd community has a habit of hysterically expressing outrage whenever a franchise fails to live up to their expectations. You see this with Star Wars and Rick & Morty, and you see it with WoW. It's a false sense of entitlement that is created simply because one decided to consume a product and become a "fan" of that product.

Now, it is important to distinguish between constructive criticism and cruel behavior. No one is arguing that fans shouldn't have a right to criticize a story and offer suggestions for how it could be improved. The problem, however, is that many fans have taken to hurling abuse and creating a culture of toxicity that is downright embarrassing. While they may have a right to do this, creators also have a right to call them out for their childish behavior.
08/10/2018 10:32 AMPosted by Corlia
08/10/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Eranos
...

So because he likes a movie that you don't his opinion is invalid? Who are you again? Oh that's right some no one from no where while he actually accomplished something with his life. Keep on using 'tis in sentences too, I'm sure its real popular with the ladies.


I remind you Metzen was the one who changed the dark lady outfit cause he was NOT man enough to tell his daughter why she was dressed the way she was. As a woman I fet the change to her outfit was a cop out.


Yet the game has a rating and parents ignore that. So instead of making themselves look stupid for ignoring a rating. They decide to attack the game.
08/10/2018 10:36 AMPosted by Nillah
08/10/2018 10:32 AMPosted by Corlia
I remind you Metzen was the one who changed the dark lady outfit cause he was NOT man enough to tell his daughter why she was dressed the way she was. As a woman I fet the change to her outfit was a cop out.

It's a cop out because he didn't have the heart to tell his daughter that a bunch of men designed the outfit and thought it'd be hot to show her midriff?

I still feel like that whole event never really happened like that. It's kind of the ultimate virtue-signal story isn't it? Dad, "who didn't care themselves, just a regular meat-eating male.." gets asked by their young precious daughter a simple question that makes them question their social awareness. So 'positive changes' are made and look how socially conscious Blizzard is!

Maybe.. maybe not.. but from a PR-perspective, you'd definitely run it that way.
08/10/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Averlynn
08/10/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Snowfox
...
Business don't usually listen to consumers demanding they fire employees.

I mean, the whole 'the customer is always right thing' is just a slogan.


So a consumer can never legitimately complain about the low quality of a product and the causes thereof? Lol.


No one is saying that you can’t criticize things...
08/10/2018 10:32 AMPosted by Corlia
I remind you Metzen was the one who changed the dark lady outfit cause he was NOT man enough to tell his daughter why she was dressed the way she was. As a woman I fet the change to her outfit was a cop out.


Of that I was completely in the dark. However, he still has done far more than probably 99% of anyone who posts on these forums. I'm just getting a little tired of people creating these asinine lines in the sand to try and pick at others. Hilariously, I get nearly instantly reprimanded when the filth gets thrown back in their face (this is a comment for a different poster, not you).
08/10/2018 10:36 AMPosted by Akumakensei
She needs to die alone with her Forsaken forsaking her to reunite with their beloved living family. Saurfang or Baine need to then be given leadership of the Horde. God forbid these writers make Sylvanas into Illidan or Kerrigan. God PLEASE forbid.


You CAN not kill off another Horde leader the game would die in hours . The players would open revolt and quit and droves. People want her to live and not be another Garrosh. I think the Horde side of the story has been crapped on ENOUGH!
08/10/2018 10:38 AMPosted by Snowfox
08/10/2018 10:36 AMPosted by Nillah
...
It's a cop out because he didn't have the heart to tell his daughter that a bunch of men designed the outfit and thought it'd be hot to show her midriff?

I still feel like that whole event never really happened like that. It's kind of the ultimate virtue-signal story isn't it? Dad, "who didn't care themselves, just a regular meat-eating male.." gets asked by their young precious daughter a simple question that makes them question their social awareness. So 'positive changes' are made and look how socially conscious Blizzard is!

Maybe.. maybe not.. but from a PR-perspective, you'd definitely run it that way.

Yeah could be. Realistically, they just wanted to give her an update and thought this looked better. Especially because she was used in the Legion and BfA cinematics, I just can't picture her in there with her old outfit on.
08/10/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Jezabel
Metzen makes a good point. The nerd community has a habit of hysterically expressing outrage whenever a franchise fails to live up to their expectations. You see this with Star Wars and Rick & Morty, and you see it with WoW. It's a false sense of entitlement that is created simply because one decided to consume a product and become a "fan" of that product.


It's somehow a bad thing to have expectations of competency and quality in a product that we're buying?

What the hell are you smoking, dude? Here, I'm going to make a couple of changes to your post and let you see how it looks if we were talking about something like cars.

Musk makes a good point. The car community has a habit of hysterically expressing outrage whenever a company fails to live up to their expectations. You see this with BMW and GM, and you see it with Tesla. It's a false sense of entitlement that is created simply because one decided to consume a product and become a "fan" of that product.


How does that sound? Legit to you? That buyers of a product are ENTITLED for having a negative opinion about the product and demand more from the producer.

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