Metzen on how NOT to act as a fan

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We live in a "I'm the victim and you are the oppressor age" For one reason or another game devs have decided lately to hop on this bandwagon ... /sigh
08/10/2018 10:39 AMPosted by Nysalla
No one is saying that you can’t criticize things...


Eh, they'll lump all in with the overstated 'bad' comments. Metzen's whining about the poor 'artists' that worked hard was a bit much.
08/10/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Nillah
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I still feel like that whole event never really happened like that. It's kind of the ultimate virtue-signal story isn't it? Dad, "who didn't care themselves, just a regular meat-eating male.." gets asked by their young precious daughter a simple question that makes them question their social awareness. So 'positive changes' are made and look how socially conscious Blizzard is!

Maybe.. maybe not.. but from a PR-perspective, you'd definitely run it that way.

Yeah could be. Realistically, they just wanted to give her an update and thought this looked better. Especially because she was used in the Legion and BfA cinematics, I just can't picture her in there with her old outfit on.


The left Whitemane unchanged and she just went into HoS They left Alexstrasza with a bare midriff and still in the same low cut outfit they just changed her to pants from what she wore originally.
08/10/2018 10:02 AMPosted by Snowfox
08/10/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Averlynn
These people are not victims. They are selling a product which has made them obscenely wealthy.

Except those devs, artists, programmers... they aren't the obscenely wealthy ones.

The people above them who only make financial decisions, not even game-related decisions - THOSE are the ones getting obscenely wealthy.

The people down in the trenches actually working on the game? They're working joes.

I've never heard anyone say anything about the desk jockeys, QA testers, or any of that.
08/10/2018 10:44 AMPosted by Infernastorm
Here, I'm going to make a couple of changes to your post and let you see how it looks if we were talking about something like cars.

Comparing cars and video games is like apples to oranges, dude. Use something like movies instead, or some other form of entertainment.
08/10/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Uthic
08/10/2018 10:39 AMPosted by Nysalla
No one is saying that you can’t criticize things...


Eh, they'll lump all in with the overstated 'bad' comments. Metzen's whining about the poor 'artists' that worked hard was a bit much.

I was actually okay with the drawn-image rendition of teldrassil burning. The art was fine. It was Sylvanas's portrayal that was.. difficult to swallow.

Same for the battle of lordaeron. Jaina Christ SuperShipStar was also hard to swallow.. but the scenario was fun and the cutscene animations (of which there were many) were all well-rendered. Again, the art was fine.
08/10/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Corlia
You CAN not kill off another Horde leader the game would die in hours .


We don't really have a choice, do we? Sylvanas did something ten times as bad as anything that Garrosh ever did, and she did it right at the start of the expansion.

Garrosh did some terrible things, but he never took a city full of unarmed civilians and burn them alive.

Seriously, we're gonna kill her off. Nothing else would make any sense.
08/10/2018 10:44 AMPosted by Lilflockar
We live in a "I'm the victim and you are the oppressor age" For one reason or another game devs have decided lately to hop on this bandwagon ... /sigh

It works and makes for a wonderful short-term deflection tactic. Bioware used it to great effect during Mass Effect 3's release, though look at them now.

Metzen and all of them had better be careful, people's patience with this sort of behavior wears thin if they can't deliver a good product.
08/10/2018 10:47 AMPosted by Nillah
Comparing cars and video games is like apples to oranges, dude.


Wanting them to be different doesn't make them different. It's literally, literally, the same thing.

We buy the product, being the game, and parts of that game's content is BAD. It's written bad, explained bad, displayed bad and you can't hand-wave away the comparison by saying that it's different. It's NOT different.

If you're certain that it's different, explain how putting money into a game is somehow different from putting money into a car.
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Yeah could be. Realistically, they just wanted to give her an update and thought this looked better. Especially because she was used in the Legion and BfA cinematics, I just can't picture her in there with her old outfit on.


The left Whitemane unchanged and she just went into HoS They left Alexstrasza with a bare midriff and still in the same low cut outfit they just changed her to pants from what she wore originally.

HotS and WoW are pretty different artistically. Especially when it comes to booties, you can tell the artists on HotS are butt fans. Wish they'd do some work on WoW occasionally, honestly.
08/10/2018 10:47 AMPosted by Snowfox
08/10/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Uthic
...

Eh, they'll lump all in with the overstated 'bad' comments. Metzen's whining about the poor 'artists' that worked hard was a bit much.

I was actually okay with the drawn-image rendition of teldrassil burning. The art was fine. It was Sylvanas's portrayal that was.. difficult to swallow.

Same for the battle of lordaeron. Jaina Christ SuperShipStar was also hard to swallow.. but the scenario was fun and the cutscene animations (of which there were many) were all well-rendered. Again, the art was fine.


Well artists isn't just down to the drawing. The Jaina cutscene is just lazy Rule of Cool BS, but the way that scenario was written, relying on 2 nick of time saves and characters acting like total idiots makes me reflect on it as garbage.
08/10/2018 10:44 AMPosted by Lilflockar
We live in a "I'm the victim and you are the oppressor age" For one reason or another game devs have decided lately to hop on this bandwagon ... /sigh


They do so because it allows someone else to take the blame, while they can do no wrong. Just the same BS humans have done for thousands of years now. It'll backfire on them eventually.
08/10/2018 10:49 AMPosted by Daugil
08/10/2018 10:44 AMPosted by Lilflockar
We live in a "I'm the victim and you are the oppressor age" For one reason or another game devs have decided lately to hop on this bandwagon ... /sigh

It works and makes for a wonderful short-term deflection tactic. Bioware used it to great effect during Mass Effect 3's release, though look at them now.

Metzen and all of them had better be careful, people's patience with this sort of behavior wears thin if they can't deliver a good product.


Blowware blew it bad and they finally in a round about way admitted it. doesn't change anything the company died cause of the crappy product. Blizzard is heading to that edge as well.

08/10/2018 10:48 AMPosted by Infernastorm
Seriously, we're gonna kill her off. Nothing else would make any sense.


Then the game will suffer for it cause so many people will quit we DO not need a rehash of MoP and it seems like that is where you want the company to go.
08/10/2018 10:52 AMPosted by Syledra
08/10/2018 10:44 AMPosted by Lilflockar
We live in a "I'm the victim and you are the oppressor age" For one reason or another game devs have decided lately to hop on this bandwagon ... /sigh


They do so because it allows someone else to take the blame, while they can do no wrong. Just the same BS humans have done for thousands of years now. It'll backfire on them eventually.


I think as a society we are starting to better identify the "poor me im a victim" movement and its losing its effectiveness which is a good thing. I notice the past year or two certain trigger words in society have been weaponized as a form of control to silence people, "toxic" is one of them.
Blizzard has issues with staying consistent though, which could and often does get considered bad writing. It is the entire reason why the IF fact checker exists. Red shirt guy called them out on a lot of stuff

So it isn't that individual story lines are bad, its when you start to piece them together and go "Hey, um what about..."

A lot of this however does come from the fact that they split their lore of and what not. Games and books as well as a movie. People get more/less information and it is hard to weed out what is right or not.
08/10/2018 10:50 AMPosted by Nillah
HotS and WoW are pretty different artistically. Especially when it comes to booties, you can tell the artists on HotS are butt fans. Wish they'd do some work on WoW occasionally, honestly.


I agree we need that art team to come over and do our characters and redo all the older outfits A good example is the sun well cloth sets all 3 looks so bad compared to new items. How come the mage weave set doesn't look right on only blood elf females?
08/10/2018 04:06 AMPosted by Crepe
08/10/2018 02:33 AMPosted by Garrondorf
I'm sorry, Metzen defended the slow-motion train wreck that was the latest star wars. His opinions are now invalid to me.

'Tis a shame. He was pretty top tier in my book up until this.


I saw this in the thread and I just wanted to add a few cents..

It's OK to disagree with people. To have different opinions. To debate those differences and find common ground or even just agree to disagree.

But this whole "everything they say from now on is invalid" over a single instance of disagreement? That's... inane. Childish. Ridiculous. Damaging to yourself. That kind of inflexibility is limiting and isn't something you should espouse or feel good about.

Disagree. That's awesome. Feel like you need to be convinced of things. That's even better. But the whole bunker mentality thing? Lose it. You'll be better for it.


You probably should get your life coach license renewed......Telling people how they should feel is not cool either....you have no idea of their experiences. You come across as rather high and mighty......from now on I could give a rat's butt about anything you say.
08/10/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Lemires
From the latest wowhead interview:

For context this wasn't a Wowhead interview, this was an interview done by Scott Johnson from The Instance podcast, one of the longest running WoW podcasts (I think the oldest but I could be wrong).

Here's the link to the website where you guys can listen to it if you want:
https://www.frogpants.com/blog/2018/8/9/special-interview-chris-metzen-20

If you're a lover of anything that would be considered "geek culture" its a really good interview. It also paints a lot of humanization into someone like Chris Metzen who even I myself built up as a fan for so many years as this mythical endlessly creative being.

I'm really a fan of this style of podcast and really hopeful they do another one.
08/10/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Ythisens
08/10/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Lemires
From the latest wowhead interview:

For context this wasn't a Wowhead interview, this was an interview done by Scott Johnson from The Instance podcast, one of the longest running WoW podcasts (I think the oldest but I could be wrong).

Here's the link to the website where you guys can listen to it if you want:
https://www.frogpants.com/blog/2018/8/9/special-interview-chris-metzen-20

If you're a lover of anything that would be considered "geek culture" its a really good interview. It also paints a lot of humanization into someone like Chris Metzen who even I myself built up as a fan for so many years as this mythical endlessly creative being.

I'm really a fan of this style of podcast and really hopeful they do another one.

Thanks, though I wish with all the advances in machine learning.. we could get transcripts of podcasts. I'm one of the people who prefers to read (since I don't have to wait for the timing of the audio). Perhaps I missed the transcript though.

edit: .. and perhaps the intent -is- the voice, to humanize them.
I agree with Metzen on the "stories are decided years in advance", as the Sylvanas storyline was created likely back in MoP. They, the devs, hinted at Sylvanas becoming Warchief and burning Teldrassil back in 2013, which was back when Metzen headed the story development for Blizzard franchises, so he would know what he is talking about. All of which was planned waaaaay before Golden was hired, so laying it at her feet is stupid and misplaced.

However, Metzen is wrong when he trashes "the nerd community" for disliking the Sylvanas Warbringers video, and praising the Saurfang one. The ones trashing the Sylvanas video, are Sylvanas fanbois who didn't like their waifu being fully revealed for the evil and genocidal monster she has always been, or those who were just angry that the Horde is getting the "villain bat" again (like me). People praising the Saurfang cinematic were more happy that it was a video portraying the Horde in a far more positive light.

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