Azerite system extremely underwhelming

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08/16/2018 02:07 PMPosted by Ythisens
These are some of the concerns I have but I'm hopeful. Getting into the higher pieces some of the procs are definitely providing some firepower and unique buffs, however they are passive procs/abilities or modifiers to existing abilities. I think when you're hitting some of the dungeon pieces it starts being more impactful over the secondary stats. At least that's my feel on it so far. I haven't jumped down the sim rabbit hole with them yet.


The last part is my biggest concern about the system - every new piece of Azerite gear is going to need to be simmed out in various combinations for multiple specs and number of targets just to see if it's worth keeping or not. It's not very enjoyable (to me at least) and goes against the "get an upgrade and equip it" direction Blizzard was going in for a while.

And sorry, I disagree with you that these abilities have any impact on the way classes play, at least from what I can tell. For Destruction- sure, some of the traits are powerful, but it doesn't feel like any of them really are going to change my rotation much at all.
08/16/2018 02:29 PMPosted by Varrow
A lot of these are currently being shown in sims as being rather universally weak compared to the generic zone traits.


It seems like a waste for these to be mutually exclusive. It's not a gameplay choice because zone passives don't impact gameplay/rotation - they seem like solutions to entirely different problems ("spice up rotations" vs. "make sure raid gear is BiS in raids, etc.").
Changing our rotations shouldn't be the benchmark.

Rotations SHOULD be static.

How we benefit from making those rotations work smoothly should be what changes. Stuff like the passive addons to Rampage and Bloodthirst are welcome to me, honestly.
The azerite armor system is going to remain bland and problematic because it isn't interactive beyond selecting which trait suits your fancy. As much as Blizzard devs talk about how they can't keep adding new abilities, the classes are much more bare bones now than they used to be, and they don't appear to be planning on doing anything more than adding a bunch of passives, as is the case with Azerite armor. At least with the artifact weapons, we got a new activated ability. There's only so much that can be done to alter gameplay by using what would have been set bonuses in previous expansions.

I really don't get why Blizzard refuses to acknowledge this - we players like to be able TO DO THINGS with our characters.... even stupid, fun things that don't contribute to dps. Hunters are a prime example - how many of you wish Eyes of the Beast were back? Have we all forgotten how awful it felt to play a hunter with no traps when Legion launched? How about Clash or Grapple Weapon for monks? I want to give the system a chance, but on the player end, beyond the initial choice, it's a brain dead experience. I don't see any changes being made for this expansion, but I also don't see players sticking around for whatever comes AFTER BfA if things don't become a little more dynamic and interactive again.
08/16/2018 10:55 AMPosted by Ythisens
08/16/2018 04:13 AMPosted by Hardbop
Surely im not the only one who feels this way? The azerite gear is essentially the netherlight crucible. Most traits are passive and boring.

Does it get better as the xpac goes on or..?

Some of the default Azerite items from questing don't have a lot of variety because you're still leveling up. Once you're at 120 and getting them from vendors, WQs, and dungeons you start seeing a lot more variety and some pretty neat stuff.

Like there's one for Ret that reduces the cooldown of Divine Steed and it gives a speed buff to your entire raid when you use it. Which I thought was pretty rad.

It's definitely early, but I'm eager to see how it plays out and how this system shapes up as well as what else we might do with it. It has potential, and I'm pretty excited about that alone as a player.


The problem I am finding is that leveling in and of itself this time, is the least fun I've EVER had in World of Warcraft.

It's SO slow, and SO lonely.

The brand new zones... I was greeted with quests needing 3 suggested players, in 3 hours I saw 5 people, total.

I feel like I'm not playing the game I played a month ago, a year ago, 4 years ago.

When I was made to torture some chick 3 time to prove she's not a which, I logged out.

There is no appeal to this system for some.

I used to level to max level on day one, We're near a week in and the most I got was an alt to 111.

Looking at Azerite going forwards, I wish I refunded before I unlocked the allied races I will never use.

I don't know who you all planned this content for, but it wasn't for players.
08/16/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Elenstelle
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Some of the default Azerite items from questing don't have a lot of variety because you're still leveling up. Once you're at 120 and getting them from vendors, WQs, and dungeons you start seeing a lot more variety and some pretty neat stuff.

Like there's one for Ret that reduces the cooldown of Divine Steed and it gives a speed buff to your entire raid when you use it. Which I thought was pretty rad.

It's definitely early, but I'm eager to see how it plays out and how this system shapes up as well as what else we might do with it. It has potential, and I'm pretty excited about that alone as a player.


I feel like this is a fundamentally flawed approach to things. Azerite is such a huge focus of the expansion that you’d think that leveling Azerite would be a massive display of the potential of the system.

By having your first impressions of Azerite be so...meh, tge odds are artificially stacked against it.


Also, this trait the blue is getting all giddy over is trash. Sure, it's kind of interesting, but by the nature of the crappy Azurite design, this competes with (boring) passives that increase damage by a decent amount. Passives like this will never be the right choice to take; its like putting utility talents on the same row as raw DPS talents. You'd think they'd learn something from the last 10 years but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Also, you seem to forget we can look at the gear in the Adventure Guide. Going through the Azurite crap in Mythic Uldir (first raid tier), I see...Rising Sun kick flat damage increase, 5% chance for Fists of Fury to refund 1 chi, .3 seconds off Touch of Death cooldown on Combo Strikes...Oh woe is me...these are THE EXACT Assurite traits I have on the leveling gear I got at 110. The only difference is the 4th tier.

Looking at these, they're SLIGHTLY more interesting, but not anywhere near a tier set bonus or even a good talent. Some are low to mid tier trinket effects at best. Lets see, stacking Haste proc that reduces by 1 every second, Proc for a random 259 secondary stat for 10 seconds, proc for 69 crit for 5 seconds, can stack up to 5 times...only one even close to interesting in there is Earthlink: 6 second cycle of 23 - 138 agility. Basically a very, very, very weak version of a mage talent, but its still a passive and trying to game your rotation to take advantage will just lower your DPS, because the bonus is almost negligible.
08/16/2018 10:55 AMPosted by Ythisens
Some of the default Azerite items from questing don't have a lot of variety because you're still leveling up. Once you're at 120 and getting them from vendors, WQs, and dungeons you start seeing a lot more variety and some pretty neat stuff.

Like there's one for Ret that reduces the cooldown of Divine Steed and it gives a speed buff to your entire raid when you use it. Which I thought was pretty rad.

It's definitely early, but I'm eager to see how it plays out and how this system shapes up as well as what else we might do with it. It has potential, and I'm pretty excited about that alone as a player.
Ythisens, with all due respect, feedback that Azerith talents are underwhelming across the board, including the Rep/Dungeon/Raid ones, has been issued since Beta. And by underwhelming I don't mean DPS, I mean gameplay. Compare any Azerite piece to the like of Mangaza's Madness (mechanically smooths an entire rotation) or Sephuz's Secret (noticeable haste payoff for CC or dispels).

I know some of you developers/community managers must watch Preach, and he gave ample feedback on this issue, especially in a post-Legion context:

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6MYP7-EQ4k
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EKAHT8DPwE
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jn9snCkaKw

He also compiled a spreadsheet with all the Azerite talents across classes and specs, and the majority are bland compared to what Artifacts and Legendaries brought to the table in Legion.

And this comparison to Legion is an important root of the problem: from losing my Artifact in the pre-patch, from some of my baseline abilities being made into talents, to losing my Legendaries at 116, the entire leveling process feels like giant steps backward. Not because I'm losing power. I've been losing power at the start of every expansion. But because I am losing gameplay.
08/16/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Jôffery
I just wish it was for more then 3 slots

You must be fun at parties!
Oh and if you're a caster have fun getting the Drust-Runed Icicle...

Arcanocrystal 2.0 in the fact that you wont get it(or a high enough version of it) until BFA ends...
08/16/2018 02:27 PMPosted by Kartra

Unfortunately, that's actually pretty much the opposite of what's happening.

All the WQ and dungeon drops at 120 are locked off by absurdly high Heart of Azeroth levels, so most people are just "upgrading" to Azerite gear with zero traits on them right now.

This is part of the problem, we are gaining and losing these "traits" whenever we replace pieces, we don't know if we'll be able to use all traits on a piece when we acquire it, and when we hit 120 we're seeing pieces that we can't use the traits on.

If traits are supposed to replace both artifact traits, set bonuses, *AND* secondary stats on those 3 pieces they have got to be amazing bonuses *AND* have to always be available to us when we acquire that piece of gear... we should get one 320 piece with all traits unlocked, get an upgrade and have no traits - it is no longer an upgrade anymore at that point...

I understand you want us to run the island expeditions and every little piece of content to get as much azurite as possible, but this will only frustrate a large portion of the playerbase that gets gear upgrades only to lose progress they've made... it doesn't feel good.

Legion artifact weapons were linear in their progression... although AP was a grind and was not "catch-up friendly", you knew you were working towards the next trait and would unlock it at a certain point.

With the necklace and the 3 core pieces, you don't know anything about it until you get it, you don't know if you'll be able to use it because A) traits are weaker or B) your necklace needs more AP to unlock the traits so you have to go back to the grind.

The necklace should have been linear with a max level cap, if you want it to scale with raid tiers so that we have to grind AP for each tier, then at least cap the level to the current raid tier available gear so that we *know* what we're working towards and we're not constantly guessing... two pieces of 320 gear shouldn't have differing unlocks... I have a 300 piece on this DK that has all the traits and then a 295 piece that still needs another neck level or 2 to get the last 5ilvl trait... it doesn't make any sense.

08/16/2018 02:27 PMPosted by Kartra

Additionally, about half the traits for various classes are so weak that they aren't really worth thinking about anyway. Even at the best case, most traits are worth between 1-3% damage, which is quite a bit weaker than 2pc+4pc bonuses previously even in the best case of 9% when combining all 3 pieces. In the worst case of 3%, it's hardly even worth caring about unless you are a top-end raider and most of the effect are extremely passive and ignorable.

Furthermore, the increased focus on Azerite gear drops from caches and bosses along with them being tradable has just ended up with lots of redundant Azerite gear, none of which is exciting and we can't even trade it to people who would get an upgrade from it.

So, currently, the system is not all that impressive. As the primary means of character building in the xpac, it's pretty underwhelming and nothing close to the impact that Artifacts/Legendaries were in Legion.

I think Azurite gear is trying to replace too many systems, weapon traits, set bonuses, and secondary stats is a HUGE shoe to fill... I think all 3 pieces could still have the traits *AND* have some secondary stats so the pieces aren't so damn boring... even if it really was just straight Versatility as most specs appreciate flat % increases to all their capabilities...
They want you to have as few secondary stats as possible. The fewer stats you have, the easier it is to manage for Blizzard.
Honestly, all the traits need a 200-300% buff. Right now it’s better to take the 325 with no traits over the 315 with full traits. Just seems off.
I liked having several separate different things going on personally: Tier Sets, Legendaries, Enchants, Artifact Traits, Netherlight Crucible (my least favorite takeaway from Legion). What BFA is trying to do is replace all of these except enchants with one thing: Azerite.

If it had been designed similarly to the Artifact trees I think it would be fine, just take a neck slot and give us a bunch of stuff to unlock with Azerite. But instead, it's built upon and functions similarly to the Netherlight Crucible, which I doubt many people liked particularly for many reasons. Not only will we need different sets for different specs now, but possibly different sets for the same spec depending on what traits your pieces randomly get.

Also, instead of being able to work on getting different things separately - getting the tier set, getting legendaries, getting artifact power, now all of your eggs are in one basket so to speak - you just get azerite power and drop these three item slots. This takes some of the fun a variation out of gearing for me. Will there even be a difference between M+ and Raid rewards?

I hope they re-think these temporary systems in future expansions. Going from artifacts to Azerite hasn't felt smooth at all and I think has contributed to a lot of other things people have complained about: feeling weaker at 120, leveling being harder after the prepatch, etc. Make the system into the classes and come up with other systems that are less impactful to synergize with them each expansion.
08/16/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Namjoo
08/16/2018 10:55 AMPosted by Ythisens
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Some of the default Azerite items from questing don't have a lot of variety because you're still leveling up. Once you're at 120 and getting them from vendors, WQs, and dungeons you start seeing a lot more variety and some pretty neat stuff.

Like there's one for Ret that reduces the cooldown of Divine Steed and it gives a speed buff to your entire raid when you use it. Which I thought was pretty rad.

It's definitely early, but I'm eager to see how it plays out and how this system shapes up as well as what else we might do with it. It has potential, and I'm pretty excited about that alone as a player.


So are there any Azerite Armors that provide active abilities? Or, as the OP said, are we stuck with passives just like the Netherlight Crucible.

Some of them can make spells used differently because of them. I’d rather that than just a new button. The proc for non-instant flurry for Mage is a pretty fun trait, and you’d never use non-instant Flurry any other time.
I need chests that go in my bag and then I clicky and sometimes good things are put into my bags and inventory. I miss that. It doesn't feel as rewarding as Legion. Might as well just auto complete with the emmisary as soon as you ding the final quest for the daily.
08/16/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Shardaea
08/16/2018 04:31 AMPosted by Machineman
I'm not sure why they didn't make the Azerite physicalized.

Yes, they take up bag space for the 3 seconds they're in there before you consume them... but consuming them felt a little like opening a Hearthstone pack. There was a tactile satisfaction to it.


Because you all complained about AP taking up space in your bags


It is very evident that he did not complain about AP taking up space. Perhaps you want to rephrase your answer?
One of these days the devs are gonna have to deliver on the whole "the fun part is coming" because bfa has been more of the same and an absolute snorefest.
08/16/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Topmoon
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Some of the default Azerite items from questing don't have a lot of variety because you're still leveling up. Once you're at 120 and getting them from vendors, WQs, and dungeons you start seeing a lot more variety and some pretty neat stuff.

Like there's one for Ret that reduces the CD of Divine Steed and it gives a speed buff to your entire raid when you use it. Which I thought was pretty rad.

It's definitely early, but I'm eager to see how it plays out and how this system shapes up as well as what else we might do with it. It has potential, and I'm pretty excited about that alone as a player.


Thats what my guild and I discussed last night. Leveling up the gear doesn't seem to be rewarding, but perhaps that's because it's leveling gear.


You can look at the raid traits too, and to be quite frank the class traits are almost no different and it is still underwhelming. Now if secondary stats scaled so you wouldn't have haste be your highest stat and it still be only 9% at 120....
08/16/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Nyseila
Changing our rotations shouldn't be the benchmark.

Rotations SHOULD be static.

How we benefit from making those rotations work smoothly should be what changes. Stuff like the passive addons to Rampage and Bloodthirst are welcome to me, honestly.


I agree 100%.

It’s nice to get a new gameplay niche infrequently, or to hunt rare cool items sometimes. When it happens as often as I change my shirt (chest piece) it becomes redundant and cumbersome.
Thank you for making this thread. I have been thinking the same thing. At this point, at best, Azerite traits feel like secondary stats that aren't already unlocked when you get the piece of armor. I don't feel 'more powerful' with them. Most of the time I feel like it's just a tradeoff of consistent damage in lieu of some temporary buff that might bring me back up to the power I'd have if the things just had secondary stats on them.

Now, if they had both, it'd feel good.

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