Ele Shamans Not Really in A Bad Spot

Shaman
08/23/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Bipst
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html

I'd say that is a more acurate representation of elemental on patchwork.

08/23/2018 07:21 AMPosted by Madalynn
Instead of congratulating the guy/gal you ALL make up reason why this is trivial and cannot be duplicated and is totally irrelevant to any discussion.


More like people are raising legitimate concerns with his data set. He had full uptime on lust and primal fire ele and 50% uptime on ascendance. That is hardly an accurate representation.


Talents

15: Echo of the Elements (Elemental Shaman)
30: Totem Mastery (Elemental Shaman)
60: Liquid Magma Totem (Elemental Shaman)
90: Primal Elementalist (Elemental Shaman)
100: Ascendance (Elemental Shaman)

Yeah just gonna leave this here as to why he wasn't higher

He has three if not 4 of the worst talents available but hey what do I know
08/22/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Rugul
08/22/2018 09:49 PMPosted by Ninjaflower
...

thats because im resto champ.
i am only elemental for questing. does not make my points any less valid. like others have said. you're basically hitting a target dummy.
come back when you tested yourself in M+ and then give us the actual parses. however i do appreciate your pretentiousness while snooping around my character.
please continue to show us how much better you are at being an elemental shaman than everyone else.


Who hurt you? lol. ive also said the same about the boss. i know its hard for you to read what i put. Stating what ive seen many other shamans do and say. Specs have always had a clunky until geared phase. I dont understand the minimum effort but want it to perform at its highest potential mindset. Play the class and spec past leveling before you whine about it. GL HF :)


ive probably played just as long or longer than you. i know how the spec is supposed to feel in and out of my main spec.
its seems its more difficult for you to read with your head shoved so far up your !@#, but okay. you dont seem to understand the fact that NO ONE should have to force themselves to feel competitive by piling on a bunch of gear. why cant you understand that, champ?

what feels good for you =/= everything is fine.

anecdotal evidence, continues to be anecdotal.
I just think it plays awful
So people know elemental does pull good single target burst. That hasn’t exactly been disputed. The problem is that those 2-3 minute cooldowns comprise too much of our damage. Once Ascendance and Fire elemental go away your dps plummets. Yes all dps have cooldowns that affect their dps, but Fire Elemental routinely does close to 20% of my overall damage on a fight. When there’s movement we have little way to do decent damage on the move. Our damage is very RNG-based between mastery procs and crits. Even then the PvE isn’t terrible as much as it is painful for a lot of people to play.

PvP is where most of the complaints lie, with pruning our root and snap movement, among other things.
08/23/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Madalynn
He has three if not 4 of the worst talents available but hey what do I know


Actually that's the best possible talent setup for single-target, as odd as it sounds. There's only one talent that's truly in a terrible spot right now, and it's Icefury. Nothing else is really prohibitively far off.
The issue isn't raw PvE effectiveness, but rather being rotationally stale (IE lacking fun factor) and also not being very PvP competitive.
08/23/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Madalynn
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html

I'd say that is a more acurate representation of elemental on patchwork.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

More like people are raising legitimate concerns with his data set. He had full uptime on lust and primal fire ele and 50% uptime on ascendance. That is hardly an accurate representation.


Talents

15: Echo of the Elements (Elemental Shaman)
30: Totem Mastery (Elemental Shaman)
60: Liquid Magma Totem (Elemental Shaman)
90: Primal Elementalist (Elemental Shaman)
100: Ascendance (Elemental Shaman)

Yeah just gonna leave this here as to why he wasn't higher

He has three if not 4 of the worst talents available but hey what do I know


I would love to know what talents you think are 3 or 4 of the worst talents available.

That is basically the standard best build for single target damage.
now that im geared it isnt that horrible. pvp is weird but ive killed most classes one on one at some point this week.

the mythics heroics and island expeditions were really fun and my dps was good and nobody complained about my utility and backup healing.

i have also healed some heroics and mythics and it was kind of enjoyable as well.
08/23/2018 07:21 AMPosted by Madalynn
Lets all bash yet another player who is:
Making ele work and topping damage
Enjoying ele shaman

And it is always the same. Instead of congratulating the guy/gal you ALL make up reason why this is trivial and cannot be duplicated and is totally irrelevant to any discussion.

I mean come on.

You claim ele has ZERO dmg and resto DOES more dmg than ele. Several people point out no not really and actually ele does great (not consistent we are an RNG spec) dmg.

You claim ele cant excel at Mythic. Someone posts clear evidence that yes ele can be competitive in Mythic.

The FACTS are there. Ele is not optimal but it sure as hell isnt broke. Just becasue the FACTS dont support your perceived notion of reality doesnt make them wrong.


its not making it "work" its selective information and ignoring all other details.

Look at these great numbers!!! nevermind it was a 30 sec fight with primal elemental, and oh ya it was a patchwork fight. Tell me how many times will you see that again?

Even Trump can be made to look good if you cherry pick your information.
Yes you can pull overall damage numbers if you are the one and only spec that works. BORING, HORRIBLE DESIGN.

In an expac that is supposed to allow you choice, I go on all my other toons and I have choices within specs. Look at the forums, people are debating them all the time.

ELE doesnt debate "ohh this talent or that talent". Its just one talent.

I am glad you enjoy ELE, but I absolutely hate it. Yes RESTO does more damage than ELE. Why do you parse more than resto? ohh yeah because of ES, which is the most damaging ability for ELE.

Look the fact that I cant use, IF, Stormkeeper, EE, Ele Blast or any other talent that basically changes the way you play ELE means I have no choice. I dont like it and I have been ELE since BC.

Ohh and a majority of ELEs dont like it, even thought they make it work. Just like me. So do use all a favor and stop saying that ELE doesnt need help, it does, because we want choice, just like every other spec in game. So you can play your style and I can play mine.
I don’t wanna be competitive at 8.3 with 30%+ secondary stats, I wanna be competitive all xpac long. How hard is that to unserstand?

Rogues and Ret Pallys do double your damage at same ilvl. Playing with one hand. With their monitors turned off.

The spec feels clunky with the cd on FS. The removal of that would at least give me the fun factor back.
08/23/2018 03:49 AMPosted by Miscast
The problem was that last xpac was literally the coolest, most fun, most favorable xpac for Ele so far in WoW, even compared to 5.3 when they could cast lightning bolt while moving in PvP.


whoa okay lets not go overboard, we never even came close to MoP ele.
08/23/2018 11:40 AMPosted by Meadamemnon
Yes you can pull overall damage numbers if you are the one and only spec that works. BORING, HORRIBLE DESIGN.

In an expac that is supposed to allow you choice, I go on all my other toons and I have choices within specs. Look at the forums, people are debating them all the time.

ELE doesnt debate "ohh this talent or that talent". Its just one talent.

I am glad you enjoy ELE, but I absolutely hate it. Yes RESTO does more damage than ELE. Why do you parse more than resto? ohh yeah because of ES, which is the most damaging ability for ELE.

Look the fact that I cant use, IF, Stormkeeper, EE, Ele Blast or any other talent that basically changes the way you play ELE means I have no choice. I dont like it and I have been ELE since BC.

Ohh and a majority of ELEs dont like it, even thought they make it work. Just like me. So do use all a favor and stop saying that ELE doesnt need help, it does, because we want choice, just like every other spec in game. So you can play your style and I can play mine.


You’re sitting at 293 Ilvl complaining bout ele playstyle. Build secondary stats and gear up. No choice? There’s many choices. But let’s get things straight. Every single class has best talents for maximum dps. Every class feels clunky when u sitting on greens and no itemization. :)
I am relatively new to the game been paying for a couple weeks and I am struggling. At 314 ilvl it takes like 6 lava bursts or more to kill one mob and you barley ever get enough malestorm built up to earthquake or earth spike (I think it's called) in the open world. I'm trying to unlock world quests and and it's rough I imagine once I unlock them it is gonna be painful. As of right now it hurts my brain playing this class because of its damage.
Bad data set aside no one is really arguing Ele has bad dps inside its cd window. People are making the argument that to much of ele's damage is shoved into that window, which is debatable. What isn't debatable is that mechanically ele has issues. This was stated by the devs when they named ele as one of classes that would get significant tuning and/or a rework come 8.1. So at this point you aren't arguing with forum perception, you are arguing with the people who make this game.
08/24/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Voodooblues
So at this point you aren't arguing with forum perception, you are arguing with the people who make this game.
I'll happily do either any day of the week if I think they're wrong, but I think both have significant points to make about the state of ele shaman.

If anyone wants my vaunted and valuable personal opinion, ele shaman feels bad to me because so many of the spells they rely on are long casts.
If they want to heal themselves they have to cast. If they want to build maelstrom, their only real source if instant damage, they have to cast. Our only real response to any kind of pressure is a totem or two and ghostwolf. If I wanted to spend all day kiting I'd play hunter so I could at least do damage at the same time.

Even every other caster has better access to non-cast damage and healing, and all the healers have access to tons of non-cast survivability cds and cc/interrupt protection tools.
Ele shaman is simply the most stagnant, turrety class in the game right now. The reason that it feels like every other class can just run rings around Ele is that literally every other class can just run rings around us.
"Hold still so I can hit you."
08/22/2018 09:21 PMPosted by Drulearon
so a 33 second boss fight...

100% bloodlust uptime
95% primal fire ele uptime
50% ascendance uptime

this is a very useful parse, and does not misrepresent anything about ele shaman dps


So your logic is, "short boss fight means large dps numbers", instead of "Large dps numbers means short boss fight".

You won't get 33 second boss fights with crap dps, period.
08/24/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Miscast
I'll happily do either any day of the week if I think they're wrong, but I think both have significant points to make about the state of ele shaman.


I'm not sure you got the point of what I said. Let me be clear. The op is saying that ele is fine. The devs have said that ele is intended to get a lot of tuning or even a rework in 8.1. That is what I was referring to.

As to your other issues with the spec. Again you seem to be responding to someone else. I am agreeing that ele has many issues in pve and pvp. Shammys in general seem to be a bit subpar but ele even more so.

08/24/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Seán
So your logic is, "short boss fight means large dps numbers", instead of "Large dps numbers means short boss fight".

You won't get 33 second boss fights with crap dps, period.


His logic is a very short fight that plays heavily into eles strengths is in no way indicative of the many issues the spec currently has.
08/24/2018 10:11 AMPosted by Rugul
08/23/2018 11:40 AMPosted by Meadamemnon
Yes you can pull overall damage numbers if you are the one and only spec that works. BORING, HORRIBLE DESIGN.

In an expac that is supposed to allow you choice, I go on all my other toons and I have choices within specs. Look at the forums, people are debating them all the time.

ELE doesnt debate "ohh this talent or that talent". Its just one talent.

I am glad you enjoy ELE, but I absolutely hate it. Yes RESTO does more damage than ELE. Why do you parse more than resto? ohh yeah because of ES, which is the most damaging ability for ELE.

Look the fact that I cant use, IF, Stormkeeper, EE, Ele Blast or any other talent that basically changes the way you play ELE means I have no choice. I dont like it and I have been ELE since BC.

Ohh and a majority of ELEs dont like it, even thought they make it work. Just like me. So do use all a favor and stop saying that ELE doesnt need help, it does, because we want choice, just like every other spec in game. So you can play your style and I can play mine.


You’re sitting at 293 Ilvl complaining bout ele playstyle. Build secondary stats and gear up. No choice? There’s many choices. But let’s get things straight. Every single class has best talents for maximum dps. Every class feels clunky when u sitting on greens and no itemization. :)


You have to keep in mind with the Azurite armor, we lose secondary stats on the three most arguably important armor slots. And in place we get passive abilities that have no synergy with our class. I'm ilvl 327 and just now hit 10% in haste which is what we need to not have terrible cast times.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum