Meta Racials

Arenas
08/12/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Notorious
08/12/2018 03:47 AMPosted by Uninspire
and that's literally skillcap

Not necessarily. He's saying that the ability could reward mongo playstyles like DK/WW or TSG. However, he's also saying that said playstyle isn't the correct way to play most of the time.

Blowing your trinket almost immediately into a fight is almost never a good idea. Using your racial before your trinket can put you at significant risk most of the time.

I agree that it adds a different decision making aspect to the game, though, like I said, it will benefit mongoloids more than anyone else. Take team like Boomkin/Mage for example. In order to win it requires a decent amount of set-up to get kills. Both are easily killed in a stun combo without trinket. While the Boomkin can't play Dark Iron, the Mage could. So here's a scenario:

Boomkin/Mage/Hpal vs Sin/Aff/Rshaman

Boomkin/Mage start the game with the idea that the Mage is going to blow trinket ASAP so he can Fireblood a row of poisons, bleeds, and lock dots and they are going to blow up the Shaman. As soon as the Mage trinkets, though, he's food for the Sin because the only way to survive a kill window would be to Ice Block. So now Block and Trinket are gone and the Mage probably hasn't even Fireblooded yet because he had to wait 30 seconds, and the Mage might have another Block if he's Frost, but he still has to wait 30 seconds for Hypo to go away. In other words, if they can't kill the Shaman with Fireblood, they have a higher chance of losing now. Plus the longer the game goes, the worse off they are anyway, and the more opportunity for Trinket and Fireblood to work against each other.

But notice that I mentioned the double Block. Fireblood has the potential to allow Mages to play like it's MoP again where they are Blocking CC. That's the definition of mongoloid playstyle.

This is why I'd argue that Dwarf is better just because there's a smaller chance for error. It's a defensive that shares 30 seconds like every other defensive racial damn near, and you still want to use it to remove as many DoTs as possible. The decision making isn't removed completely, but the potential for inflicting self punishment is no where near as high.

That being said, if it's as strong as some of you have mentioned, it will almost certainly be nerfed at some point. That's not to say it won't be good, but as soon as it gets nerfed, Stoneform will be better I would imagine.

Sorry for the wall, friends.


Yes this is exactly what I was trying to say. Ty :)
If they make fire blood go live then it needs to be something that you can purge Or dispel offensively
08/12/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Thenugent
If they make fire blood go live then it needs to be something that you can purge Or dispel offensively

Can you dispel the Draenei self heal? If so, then sure, but if not, they it should be treated like every other racial. Nerf it's damage aspect before making it purgable.
08/12/2018 02:39 PMPosted by Notorious
08/12/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Thenugent
If they make fire blood go live then it needs to be something that you can purge Or dispel offensively

Can you dispel the Draenei self heal? If so, then sure, but if not, they it should be treated like every other racial. Nerf it's damage aspect before making it purgable.


In all honesty I would be OK with the draenei racial ability being buffed appropriately to a 40% levels if it was purgeable. but if I am not mistaken I believe it is a physical buff and not a magical one
Personally, I think racials should be deactivated in Arena/BGs. It's just another variable that Blizzard has to balance and we know how great they are at doing that :)

Racials should be purely cosmetic when it comes to PvP.
I agree with removing racials.

Remove them and reintroduce more honor talent rows.

That's superior customization. Races should be chosen for aesthetics and lore, not combat advantages.
08/12/2018 03:52 PMPosted by Yagarr
I agree with removing racials.

Remove them and reintroduce more honor talent rows.

That's superior customization. Races should be chosen for aesthetics and lore, not combat advantages.


give it a rest
08/12/2018 03:51 AMPosted by Phen
I'm feelin like livin that female nelf life nahmsayin


Yeah
troll master race
Everyone seems to hate panda but as a monk I really like the way it moves when you attack or heal and having the panda racial for extra cc or using it as a kick after the nerfs to incap feels really good.
Alright here’s a question since everyone’s here. In yalls opinion what’s gonna be best for an Aff lock between velf, DiD & human? Currently human but I wanna make another lock soon or race change mine at some point but not sure.

I was thinking the dark iron would be huge for burst and cleansing stuff every now and then but the velf port is cool and I’m not sure how much pushback helps for Aff, I just straight up haven’t paid attention to spell pushback in pvp I dont even know if it still exists and even if it does half of affs spells are instant
08/12/2018 10:14 PMPosted by Yatogami
Alright here’s a question since everyone’s here. In yalls opinion what’s gonna be best for an Aff lock between velf, DiD & human? Currently human but I wanna make another lock soon or race change mine at some point but not sure.

I was thinking the dark iron would be huge for burst and cleansing stuff every now and then but the velf port is cool and I’m not sure how much pushback helps for Aff, I just straight up haven’t paid attention to spell pushback in pvp I dont even know if it still exists and even if it does half of affs spells are instant


I could see dark iron actually be good for casters because you can use it to trinket a blanket silence possibly. Velf on the other hand would give you a lot of mobility though. You could be at one side of your gate. Velf to the other side of the gate and then take the gate back to fly around the melee.
Rocket Jump
08/12/2018 03:52 PMPosted by Yagarr
I agree with removing racials.

Remove them and reintroduce more honor talent rows.

That's superior customization. Races should be chosen for aesthetics and lore, not combat advantages.


no thanks, rather not lose the clutch shadowmelds

not all racials are braindead/broken
08/12/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Notorious
Not necessarily. He's saying that the ability could reward mongo playstyles like DK/WW or TSG. However, he's also saying that said playstyle isn't the correct way to play most of the time.

Blowing your trinket almost immediately into a fight is almost never a good idea. Using your racial before your trinket can put you at significant risk most of the time.

I agree that it adds a different decision making aspect to the game, though, like I said, it will benefit mongoloids more than anyone else. Take team like Boomkin/Mage for example. In order to win it requires a decent amount of set-up to get kills. Both are easily killed in a stun combo without trinket. While the Boomkin can't play Dark Iron, the Mage could. So here's a scenario:

Boomkin/Mage/Hpal vs Sin/Aff/Rshaman

Boomkin/Mage start the game with the idea that the Mage is going to blow trinket ASAP so he can Fireblood a row of poisons, bleeds, and lock dots and they are going to blow up the Shaman. As soon as the Mage trinkets, though, he's food for the Sin because the only way to survive a kill window would be to Ice Block. So now Block and Trinket are gone and the Mage probably hasn't even Fireblooded yet because he had to wait 30 seconds, and the Mage might have another Block if he's Frost, but he still has to wait 30 seconds for Hypo to go away. In other words, if they can't kill the Shaman with Fireblood, they have a higher chance of losing now. Plus the longer the game goes, the worse off they are anyway, and the more opportunity for Trinket and Fireblood to work against each other.


that's.. skillcap..

you JUST described skillcap.

ill go in order:

He's saying that the ability could reward mongo playstyles like DK/WW or TSG


in WHAT way? they pop racial and sit a full kidney/sheep/fear dr rotation while they have no trinket??????

Blowing your trinket almost immediately into a fight is almost never a good idea. Using your racial before your trinket can put you at significant risk most of the time.


exactly?? so you need to wait to even use the racial, unless you'r being mongo, which leads into the second point

Boomkin/Mage start the game with the idea that the Mage is going to blow trinket ASAP so he can Fireblood a row of poisons, bleeds, and lock dots and they are going to blow up the Shaman. As soon as the Mage trinkets, though, he's food for the Sin because the only way to survive a kill window would be to Ice Block. So now Block and Trinket are gone and the Mage probably hasn't even Fireblooded yet because he had to wait 30 seconds, and the Mage might have another Block if he's Frost, but he still has to wait 30 seconds for Hypo to go away. In other words, if they can't kill the Shaman with Fireblood, they have a higher chance of losing now. Plus the longer the game goes, the worse off they are anyway, and the more opportunity for Trinket and Fireblood to work against each other.


you JUST DESCRIBED SKILLCAP

like, you literally just said being mongo is bad and punishable??
08/12/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Notorious
Not necessarily. He's saying that the ability could reward mongo playstyles like DK/WW or TSG. However, he's also saying that said playstyle isn't the correct way to play most of the time.

Blowing your trinket almost immediately into a fight is almost never a good idea. Using your racial before your trinket can put you at significant risk most of the time.

I agree that it adds a different decision making aspect to the game, though, like I said, it will benefit mongoloids more than anyone else. Take team like Boomkin/Mage for example. In order to win it requires a decent amount of set-up to get kills. Both are easily killed in a stun combo without trinket. While the Boomkin can't play Dark Iron, the Mage could. So here's a scenario:

Boomkin/Mage/Hpal vs Sin/Aff/Rshaman

Boomkin/Mage start the game with the idea that the Mage is going to blow trinket ASAP so he can Fireblood a row of poisons, bleeds, and lock dots and they are going to blow up the Shaman. As soon as the Mage trinkets, though, he's food for the Sin because the only way to survive a kill window would be to Ice Block. So now Block and Trinket are gone and the Mage probably hasn't even Fireblooded yet because he had to wait 30 seconds, and the Mage might have another Block if he's Frost, but he still has to wait 30 seconds for Hypo to go away. In other words, if they can't kill the Shaman with Fireblood, they have a higher chance of losing now. Plus the longer the game goes, the worse off they are anyway, and the more opportunity for Trinket and Fireblood to work against each other.


that's.. skillcap..

you JUST described skillcap.

ill go in order:

He's saying that the ability could reward mongo playstyles like DK/WW or TSG


in WHAT way? they pop racial and sit a full kidney/sheep/fear dr rotation while they have no trinket??????

Blowing your trinket almost immediately into a fight is almost never a good idea. Using your racial before your trinket can put you at significant risk most of the time.


exactly?? so you need to wait to even use the racial, unless you'r being mongo, which leads into the second point

Boomkin/Mage start the game with the idea that the Mage is going to blow trinket ASAP so he can Fireblood a row of poisons, bleeds, and lock dots and they are going to blow up the Shaman. As soon as the Mage trinkets, though, he's food for the Sin because the only way to survive a kill window would be to Ice Block. So now Block and Trinket are gone and the Mage probably hasn't even Fireblooded yet because he had to wait 30 seconds, and the Mage might have another Block if he's Frost, but he still has to wait 30 seconds for Hypo to go away. In other words, if they can't kill the Shaman with Fireblood, they have a higher chance of losing now. Plus the longer the game goes, the worse off they are anyway, and the more opportunity for Trinket and Fireblood to work against each other.


you JUST DESCRIBED SKILLCAP

like, you literally just said being mongo is bad and punishable??


I don’t think pooping a racial and doing as much as avatar (as said by someone else) is skill cap at all

Nelfing a kidney or stormbolt is skill cap.

Running in and using fire blood is obviously bad.
Immediately using trinket so you can use fireblood in 30s is also bad and supports a mongo playstyle

Tbh I just don’t like the racial as it apparently gives too much damage. It gives a trade off but that is the only skill cap. It doesn’t really allow you to outplay anyone but allows others the opportunity to outplay you if you decided to run at them too hard vs waiting to use it at a decent time.

The only way I see the racial being decent for the game is being used as a caster vs a dot class to trinket a silence and then cause immediate counter pressure. Any melee who uses it purely for dps I will never see as skillful

I want to say neither of us are going to convince the other of our own opinion so let’s just agree to disagree :)
08/14/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Thelle
It gives a trade off


08/14/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Thelle
allows others the opportunity to outplay you if you decided to run at them too hard vs waiting to use it at a decent time.


so skillcap?

08/14/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Thelle
Any melee who uses it purely for dps I will never see as skillful


but you can punish them.. that's... omg dense.
08/12/2018 03:52 PMPosted by Yagarr
That's superior customization. Races should be chosen for aesthetics and lore, not combat advantages.


Don't hold your breath, the re roll $'s are probably built into financial projection at this point.

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