PSA: Genocide is wrong

Story Forum
I didn't realize this would have to be stated but I guess it does. Genocide is not a justified action. Genocide is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation". The writers have explicitly used this word to describe the burning of Teldrassil. The destruction of the night elven people is a morally heinous action. It's stated that the night elven people are unlikely to ever recover.

I've seen many people try and defend Sylvanas's actions through various ways. Whether it be by claiming that "it's just a part of war" or "not every night elf died so it isn't genocide" or even worse "well they had plenty of time to evacuate so it's the night elves fault for staying". These claims are wrong and many of the defenses of Sylvanas used are the same used to justify actual atrocities IRL.

I realize and hope that many of these people are just trolling or RPing but for those who aren't it's a problem. I never thought saying genocide is bad and not justifiable would be a contentious topic even in a fantasy setting like WoW but yet here we are.
Realizing a characters motivations for an action hardly equates to justification.

But baseless name calling is the fashion of the day.
We're still gonna be arguing about this three years from now.

You know it's true.
08/11/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Cursewords
Realizing a characters motivations for an action hardly equates to justification.

But baseless name calling is the fashion of the day.


I never called anyone names and I'm not talking about people who just know the characters motivations but those who try and justify it or sympathize with it.

08/11/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Demonflayer
We're still gonna be arguing about this three years from now.

You know it's true.


Yeah unfortunately that seems likely but it's definitely something that really shouldn't be up for debate.
Genocide is morally grey and Blizzard is trying to tell us that Sylvanas did nothing wrong. Sorry that was just sarcasm. I agree with you and I think people need to stop trying to justify their character's actions. Whatever the Horde's "motives" may be, Blizzard has written them as the genocidal faction and we all know the Alliance will never be bad so they are just villains again.

Oh and she's totally not evil either. (Source: https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/4755/explore-claim-resources-and-battle-for-your-faction-world-of-warcraft-interview)
Ok, but what if she really believes in her heart that she had to do it???

DID U EVER TINK OF DAT???
08/11/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Cursewords
Realizing a characters motivations for an action hardly equates to justification.

But baseless name calling is the fashion of the day.


I never called anyone names and I'm not talking about people who just know the characters motivations but those who try and justify it or sympathize with it.


You are equating those who disagree with you in Warcraft's setting to people who commit heinous acts in real life.

You say they either are trolls, RPing, or "are a problem." :

08/11/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Shadowbreakr
I've seen many people try and defend Sylvanas's actions through various ways. Whether it be by claiming that "it's just a part of war" or "not every night elf died so it isn't genocide" or even worse "well they had plenty of time to evacuate so it's the night elves fault for staying". These claims are wrong and many of the defenses of Sylvanas used are the same used to justify actual atrocities IRL.

I realize and hope that many of these people are just trolling or RPing but for those who aren't it's a problem.


The ones who cry the loudest are the first to hurl slings.

I dont mind it, whine away. But the saccharine sanctimony does irk me.
Not sure what your talking about, no one is saying Genocide is good. Their are 2 arguments put forth for Sylvanas reasonings but not on the idea itself.

The first argument is if it can be called genocide since that word requires intent to murder someone specifically because of their race or creed. People don't think Sylvanas wants to just murder elves cuz their elves, they were just the easiest target and she needed to make a statement. If burning a city in war is genocide, then warcraft is full of it. Jaina in Dalaran is closer to the definition since it was targeted at people strictly based on their race.

The other argument is if its ok to destroy a civilization that wants to destroy you. For example, was it wrong to kill the aliens in independence day? I doubt people would care this much if it wasn't a playable race.

But yea, I have no idea why blizzard went this route. Its probably so we can debate topics like this and get angry at eachother instead of at the devs for their terrible story direction.
...

I never called anyone names and I'm not talking about people who just know the characters motivations but those who try and justify it or sympathize with it.


You are equating those who disagree with you in Warcraft's setting to people who commit heinous acts in real life.

You say they either are trolls, RPing, or "are a problem." :

08/11/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Shadowbreakr
I've seen many people try and defend Sylvanas's actions through various ways. Whether it be by claiming that "it's just a part of war" or "not every night elf died so it isn't genocide" or even worse "well they had plenty of time to evacuate so it's the night elves fault for staying". These claims are wrong and many of the defenses of Sylvanas used are the same used to justify actual atrocities IRL.

I realize and hope that many of these people are just trolling or RPing but for those who aren't it's a problem.


The ones who cry the loudest are the first to hurl slings.

I dont mind it, whine away. But the saccharine sanctimony does irk me.


Because if you aren't RPing or trolling and say "the night elf civilians deserved to die" then yes I think that's a problem. If your actual view is that genocide is fine then that's a problem. You can understand why someone would commit genocide without trying to justify it or excuse it.

I'm truly sorry my opinion that genocide is wrong irks you /s
I thought you might be a genuine poster, but since you first ignored your name calling and now stand by it, I see you are as much a Troll as those you condemn.

Enjoy your circle jerk, then. I will see if there are actual threads with points.
08/11/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Shadowbreakr
I didn't realize this would have to be stated but I guess it does. Genocide is not a justified action. Genocide is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation". The writers have explicitly used this word to describe the burning of Teldrassil. The destruction of the night elven people is a morally heinous action. It's stated that the night elven people are unlikely to ever recover.

I've seen many people try and defend Sylvanas's actions through various ways. Whether it be by claiming that "it's just a part of war" or "not every night elf died so it isn't genocide" or even worse "well they had plenty of time to evacuate so it's the night elves fault for staying". These claims are wrong and many of the defenses of Sylvanas used are the same used to justify actual atrocities IRL.

I realize and hope that many of these people are just trolling or RPing but for those who aren't it's a problem. I never thought saying genocide is bad and not justifiable would be a contentious topic even in a fantasy setting like WoW but yet here we are.


How many ogre hovels have you cleared, bud? Or how about the Murlocs, or the Furblongs? !@#$ outta here with this false high horse.
08/11/2018 11:14 AMPosted by Cursewords
I thought you might be a genuine poster, but since you first ignored your name calling and now stand by it, I see you are as much a Troll as those you condemn.

Enjoy your circle jerk, then. I will see if there are actual threads with points.


If my circle jerk is that genocide is wrong and those who try and justify it are also wrong then I'll gladly circle jerk 24/7 until the end of time.
What she did was not genocide.
It's hardly justifiable, especially in a an idealistic world like Warcraft what she did, but for something to be genocide it requires a specific intent. Sylvanas doesn't care about the race or ethnicity of the people she's killing, only that they are Alliance.
If you don't make that distinction, you'd have to consider almost every war genocide, and the word loses all weight if you have to consider the US and UK both as genocidal as !@#$ Germany. (Yes the bombings were bad but it's NOT the same thing) I hate using this example but I think it's the only way people will get it.
Night Elves are truly evil creatures in my book. No different than the harpies, quillboars, murlocs, centurs, or any sentient race that I kill in game.
Whether or it it was genocide matters less than the fact that she knowingly burned tons of civilians (and the majority of the night elf population) alive to crush their morale. If it's not genocide as some people are arguing, that doesn't magically mean it's "okay"
This is a fantasy setting, not everything is automatically "bad" that involved murder.

Granted, genocide is almost always wrong (fantasy setting), but the point still stands. For example, if all of Zandalar was corrupted by G'huun, it'd be pretty okay to Vindicaar instagib the continent. Yes, it's dumb, but it illustrates the point.
08/11/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Myrothan
08/11/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Shadowbreakr
I didn't realize this would have to be stated but I guess it does. Genocide is not a justified action. Genocide is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation". The writers have explicitly used this word to describe the burning of Teldrassil. The destruction of the night elven people is a morally heinous action. It's stated that the night elven people are unlikely to ever recover.

I've seen many people try and defend Sylvanas's actions through various ways. Whether it be by claiming that "it's just a part of war" or "not every night elf died so it isn't genocide" or even worse "well they had plenty of time to evacuate so it's the night elves fault for staying". These claims are wrong and many of the defenses of Sylvanas used are the same used to justify actual atrocities IRL.

I realize and hope that many of these people are just trolling or RPing but for those who aren't it's a problem. I never thought saying genocide is bad and not justifiable would be a contentious topic even in a fantasy setting like WoW but yet here we are.


How many ogre hovels have you cleared, bud? Or how about the Murlocs, or the Furblongs? !@#$ outta here with this false high horse.


You might have a point if this post was from an RP standpoint but since it's not you don't. Killing innocent Murlocs is morally wrong just like killing the night elves would be.
What's a little genocide between friends?

#KillAllDragons
08/11/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Shadowbreakr
You might have a point if this post was from an RP standpoint but since it's not you don't. Killing innocent Murlocs is morally wrong just like killing the night elves would be.


I'm not sure I understand what you're on about then. If you think what Sylvanas did, in service of the people she led mind you, to the night elves was bad, surely your guy who has done the same to multiple sentient races for cash is just as bad, if not worse.

Genocide is almost meaningless on Azeroth because most divides are made along racial lines. If every war is a race war, does the term "race war" even exist? It's redundant.

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