Elven potential

Story Forum
09/06/2018 01:21 AMPosted by Salandil
Its not really a retcon, even back in WC3 it was mentioned the Sunwell gave the High Elves "Immortal Powers".

Vashj specifically referred to the Blood Elves as the "last mortal descendants of the Highborne," when introducing them to Illidan.

The powers were immortal, not the elves themselves.

09/06/2018 01:24 AMPosted by Salandil
Mannoroth is king of the Pit Lords and a general in the burning legion. Gul'dan is a recent recruit. There is no way he is more powerful than Mannoroth, the only time he might have been is when he absorbed the Tomb of Sargeras power.


And yet he's constantly taken out by a normal orc warrior. Why does Gul'dan being a recent recruit make him incapable of being more powerful than Mannoroth? We're told he's the most powerful warlock ever and he was easily capable of taking out the guy that killed Mannoroth twice.
09/06/2018 01:24 AMPosted by Sedras
09/06/2018 01:21 AMPosted by Salandil
Its not really a retcon, even back in WC3 it was mentioned the Sunwell gave the High Elves "Immortal Powers".

Vashj specifically referred to the Blood Elves as the "last mortal descendants of the Highborne," when introducing them to Illidan.

The powers were immortal, not the elves themselves.

09/06/2018 01:24 AMPosted by Salandil
Mannoroth is king of the Pit Lords and a general in the burning legion. Gul'dan is a recent recruit. There is no way he is more powerful than Mannoroth, the only time he might have been is when he absorbed the Tomb of Sargeras power.


And yet he's constantly taken out by a normal orc warrior. Why does Gul'dan being a recent recruit make him incapable of being more powerful than Mannoroth? We're told he's the most powerful warlock ever and he was easily capable of taking out the guy that killed Mannoroth twice.
And yet Lorash is 7000 years old, and Turalyon says the High Elves have "something akin to immortality" in a thousand years of war. As for Mannoroth, he in the WoTA stalemated Cenarius, a demi-god. Gul'dan probably knows more sorcery than Mannoroth, since he is more of a warrior demon-king, but I still dont believe overall that Mannoroth is weaker. Groms shots were sheer luck, and Mannoroth is stated to have the magical skills of that of an average eredar warlock, which still is fairly powerful.
09/06/2018 01:33 AMPosted by Salandil
And yet Lorash is 7000 years old, and Turalyon says the High Elves have "something akin to immortality" in a thousand years of war.

It's either a retcon or Blizzard just wasn't paying attention.

09/06/2018 01:33 AMPosted by Salandil
As for Mannoroth, he in the WoTA stalemated Cenarius, a demi-god

I don't recall them fighting in the novel, but it's been a while.

Gul'dan probably knows more sorcery than Mannoroth, since he is more of a warrior demon-king, but I still dont believe overall that Mannoroth is weaker. Groms shots were sheer luck.

How was it sheer luck exactly? He charged at him and slew him. There didn't seem too much lucky about it. It also happened twice.
09/06/2018 01:33 AMPosted by Salandil
And yet Lorash is 7000 years old, and Turalyon says the High Elves have "something akin to immortality" in a thousand years of war.

It's either a retcon or Blizzard just wasn't paying attention.

09/06/2018 01:33 AMPosted by Salandil
As for Mannoroth, he in the WoTA stalemated Cenarius, a demi-god

I don't recall them fighting in the novel, but it's been a while.

Gul'dan probably knows more sorcery than Mannoroth, since he is more of a warrior demon-king, but I still dont believe overall that Mannoroth is weaker. Groms shots were sheer luck.

How was it sheer luck exactly? He charged at him and slew him. There didn't seem too much lucky about it. It also happened twice.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mannoroth#/media/File:Cenarius_vs_Mannoroth.jpgI believe this picture is in Chronicle Volume 1. In Wc3 Grom got through Mannoroths defences because Mannoroths spear/glaive thing broke, luck. In WoD cinematic, Grom killed him because he used the explosions so Mannoroth couldn't see him then axe his head, no explosions probably no kill.
09/06/2018 01:44 AMPosted by Salandil
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mannoroth#/media/File:Cenarius_vs_Mannoroth.jpgI believe this picture is in Chronicle Volume 1

That's just art. We have no idea the context of the battle. Chronicles also has art of Grom vs Cenarius and Arthas vs Illidan, neither of which were fights "to a standstill". For all we know Cenarius slam dunked him and Mannoroth ran moments after that scene. Their fight was never actually described.

09/06/2018 01:44 AMPosted by Salandil
In Wc3 Grom got through Mannoroths defences because Mannoroths spear/glaive thing broke, luck.

It broke because Grom cut through it. How is that lucky? That just shows how weak Mannoroth is.

09/06/2018 01:44 AMPosted by Salandil
Grom killed him because he used the explosions so Mannoroth couldn't see him then axe his head, no explosions probably no kill.

So all you need to beat Mannoroth is smoke?
09/06/2018 01:47 AMPosted by Sedras
09/06/2018 01:44 AMPosted by Salandil
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mannoroth#/media/File:Cenarius_vs_Mannoroth.jpgI believe this picture is in Chronicle Volume 1

That's just art. We have no idea the context of the battle. Chronicles also has art of Grom vs Cenarius and Arthas vs Illidan, neither of which were fights "to a standstill". For all we know Cenarius slam dunked him and Mannoroth ran moments after that scene. Their fight was never actually described.

09/06/2018 01:44 AMPosted by Salandil
In Wc3 Grom got through Mannoroths defences because Mannoroths spear/glaive thing broke, luck.

It broke because Grom cut through it. How is that lucky? That just shows how weak Mannoroth is.

09/06/2018 01:44 AMPosted by Salandil
Grom killed him because he used the explosions so Mannoroth couldn't see him then axe his head, no explosions probably no kill.

So all you need to beat Mannoroth is smoke?
It was probably a stalemate with Cenarius due to Mannoroths comments in WC3, where he says he would relish the chance to face Cenarius again. Implying they are at least equal in power, he cant be weaker than him or he wouldn't want to fight him again. Also since Thrall through his elements imbued full power hammer at Mannoroth and did almost no damage to him, i have to see Grom breaking his spear on one hit as a lucky event.
09/06/2018 01:52 AMPosted by Salandil
It was probably a stalemate with Cenarius due to Mannoroths comments in WC3, where he says he would relish the chance to face Cenarius again

Why does that make you assume it's a stalemate? It could be just as possible Mannoroth is upset after getting defeated and wants revenge, or their fight got interrupted before it could really get started. All we know is that at some point they fought, nothing more, nothing less.

09/06/2018 01:52 AMPosted by Salandil
Also since Thrall through his elements imbued full power hammer at Mannoroth and did almost no damage to him, i have to see Grom breaking his spear on one hit as a lucky event.


Why is that a lucky event? Mannoroth didn't block Thrall's element attack with his spear, he blocked it with his wing.
09/06/2018 01:57 AMPosted by Sedras
09/06/2018 01:52 AMPosted by Salandil
It was probably a stalemate with Cenarius due to Mannoroths comments in WC3, where he says he would relish the chance to face Cenarius again

Why does that make you assume it's a stalemate? It could be just as possible Mannoroth is upset after getting defeated and wants revenge, or their fight got interrupted before it could really get started. All we know is that at some point they fought, nothing more, nothing less.

09/06/2018 01:52 AMPosted by Salandil
Also since Thrall through his elements imbued full power hammer at Mannoroth and did almost no damage to him, i have to see Grom breaking his spear on one hit as a lucky event.


Why is that a lucky event? Mannoroth didn't block Thrall's element attack with his spear, he blocked it with his wing.
Grom killing Mannoroth, lucky or not, doesnt make him more powerful than Mannoroth. Gul'dan would probably have a pretty hard time trying to down Mannoroth in a fight, slinging fel at him that he's probably resistant to, meanwhile trying to avoid getting impaled on that spear or burned by fire breath. Same for Jaina or Khadgar, especially since Arcane is weak to fel, and Mannoroth literally has fel blood and fel fire coming out of his head.
09/06/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Salandil
Grom killing Mannoroth, lucky or not, doesnt make him more powerful than Mannoroth.

It just shows how much of a chump Mannoroth is.

09/06/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Salandil
Gul'dan would probably have a pretty hard time trying to down Mannoroth in a fight, slinging fel at him that he's probably resistant to

Or he could just banish him or enslave him, as warlocks are known to do to demons. Using Fel to fight demons is clearly an effective tactic or else Demon Hunters wouldn't exist.

09/06/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Salandil
Same for Jaina or Khadgar, especially since Arcane is weak to fel,

Arcane is not weak to Fel. They're opposites. Titans are weak to Fel. When Sargeras fought Agamand both the Arcane weapon and Fel weapon shattered equally. It also clearly wasn't weak to it when Aegwynn was more powerful than Sargeras' avatar, or when Azshara was stronger than Mannoroth.
09/06/2018 02:10 AMPosted by Sedras
09/06/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Salandil
Grom killing Mannoroth, lucky or not, doesnt make him more powerful than Mannoroth.

It just shows how much of a chump Mannoroth is.

09/06/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Salandil
Gul'dan would probably have a pretty hard time trying to down Mannoroth in a fight, slinging fel at him that he's probably resistant to

Or he could just banish him or enslave him, as warlocks are known to do to demons. Using Fel to fight demons is clearly an effective tactic or else Demon Hunters wouldn't exist.

09/06/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Salandil
Same for Jaina or Khadgar, especially since Arcane is weak to fel,

Arcane is not weak to Fel. They're opposites. Titans are weak to Fel. When Sargeras fought Agamand both the Arcane weapon and Fel weapon shattered equally. It also clearly wasn't weak to it when Aegwynn was more powerful than Sargeras' avatar, or when Azshara was stronger than Mannoroth.
As beings of arcane power, the Titans being weak to fel implies Arcane it self is weak to fel. Aegwynn was more powerful than Sargeras Avatar despite Arcane being weak to fel. Its like if she had 100 power and the Avatar had 75 power and a 10% boost vs Arcane, Sargeras Avatar would still lose.
09/06/2018 02:16 AMPosted by Salandil
As beings of arcane power, the Titans being weak to fel implies Arcane it self is weak to fel.

You'd think, but given that it's never shown anywhere else I assume it's a property unique to Titans, rather than Arcane itself. Arcane users never seem to have more trouble with Fel users than anyone else. And again, Aggamands and Sargeras' sword destroyed each other. If Fel was stronger it would be pretty one sided.

09/06/2018 02:16 AMPosted by Salandil
Aegwynn was more powerful than Sargeras Avatar despite Arcane being weak to fel.

I doubt Aegwynn was so much more powerful than Sargeras' Avatar to overcome such a gap. More likely Arcane just isn't weak to Fel.
i wish that elves were shown as clearly superior in magic, but sadly that's just not the case. as long as blizz wants to keep hoisting dalaran on us constantly, that won't change.

at least elves are physically superior to humans.
09/06/2018 02:51 AMPosted by Älexandra
i wish that elves were shown as clearly superior in magic, but sadly that's just not the case. as long as blizz wants to keep hoisting dalaran on us constantly, that won't change.

at least elves are physically superior to humans.
You'll have to show me a human mage stronger than Azshara. Only Archimonde or Kil'jaeden or Sargeras are superior to her in the Legion. And she was born that powerful.
09/05/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Salandil
09/05/2018 10:22 PMPosted by Elechan
...

lore-wise, they're near extinction themselves.
Blood Elves have rebuilt their city and re-established them selves. Night Elves are a refugee population of small numbers living off of human kindness like beggars.


Rebuilt their city, but their population is still, lore-wise, small. They lost like 90% of their population to Arthas and ALL Elves apparently don't breed frequently. That includes Blood Elves. ALL the Elves are on the endangered species list.
09/06/2018 05:08 AMPosted by Elechan
09/05/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Salandil
...Blood Elves have rebuilt their city and re-established them selves. Night Elves are a refugee population of small numbers living off of human kindness like beggars.


Rebuilt their city, but their population is still, lore-wise, small. They lost like 90% of their population to Arthas and ALL Elves apparently don't breed frequently. That includes Blood Elves. ALL the Elves are on the endangered species list.
Im sure the government of Silvermoon has instated, incentives', for blood elf families to have large amounts of Children.
09/06/2018 05:10 AMPosted by Salandil
09/06/2018 05:08 AMPosted by Elechan
...

Rebuilt their city, but their population is still, lore-wise, small. They lost like 90% of their population to Arthas and ALL Elves apparently don't breed frequently. That includes Blood Elves. ALL the Elves are on the endangered species list.
Im sure the government of Silvermoon has instated, incentives', for blood elf families to have large amounts of Children.


Until Blizzard addresses it, we can only assume the population is roughly the same small size compared to what it used to be (and, iirc, even before Arthas, the BE were a smaller population than the Human and Troll populations, part in why they had to ally with Humans against the Trolls).
09/06/2018 05:17 AMPosted by Elechan
<span class="truncated">...</span>Im sure the government of Silvermoon has instated, incentives', for blood elf families to have large amounts of Children.


Until Blizzard addresses it, we can only assume the population is roughly the same small size compared to what it used to be (and, iirc, even before Arthas, the BE were a smaller population than the Human and Troll populations, part in why they had to ally with Humans against the Trolls).
They face zero danger at all right now. For in lore reasons, and also due to game mechanics. In the lore, Blood Elves have Ban'dinoriel, an impenetrable shield around Silvermoon, making any invasion of them doomed to fail. Chronicle says even he scourge couldn't have penetrated the shield without the help of a traitor on the inside, (Dar'khan Drathir). Game mechanic wise, Blood Elves face no danger because blizzard is too lazy to update BC zones, and because Blood Elves are the most popular race on the horde. So no, Blood Elves have all the time in the world to get their numbers up, and are in no danger at all.
09/06/2018 05:10 AMPosted by Salandil
Im sure the government of Silvermoon has instated, incentives', for blood elf families to have large amounts of Children.
Lore wise and this is true in most fantasy genres, it's incredibly difficult for elves to have kids. Its usually why they celebrate such events, it's not that common.
09/06/2018 02:54 AMPosted by Salandil
You'll have to show me a human mage stronger than Azshara. Only Archimonde or Kil'jaeden or Sargeras are superior to her in the Legion. And she was born that powerful.


you're alliance, i'm sure you've done the quest lines?

where uldir was set up to be the horde's big drama, azshara has very clearly been set up to be the alliance's. certainly you feel the sickening dread settling in by now, as i bring it to the front of your mind?

they're gonna have jaina be the one to face azshara. it's coming, just prepare yourself.

before you try to argue against me, keep in mind exactly who is writing this story. hint: B I Z and A are parts of the name.
09/06/2018 05:29 AMPosted by Älexandra
09/06/2018 02:54 AMPosted by Salandil
You'll have to show me a human mage stronger than Azshara. Only Archimonde or Kil'jaeden or Sargeras are superior to her in the Legion. And she was born that powerful.


you're alliance, i'm sure you've done the quest lines?

where uldir was set up to be the horde's big drama, azshara has very clearly been set up to be the alliance's. certainly you feel the sickening dread settling in by now, as i bring it to the front of your mind?

they're gonna have jaina be the one to face azshara. it's coming, just prepare yourself.

before you try to argue against me, keep in mind exactly who is writing this story. hint: B I Z and A are parts of the name.
Jaina will get her !@# kicked by Azshara, which is why 25 of us players will be needed to beat Azshara in a raid.

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