BFA Raid Loot – The Erosion of Personal Accountability

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09/24/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Nayoren


"Integrity" isn't the word you're looking for here. Integrity is the strength of one's own self to stick to a plan, or the strength of a substance. If you have integrity it means you can be trusted, relied upon, and are fair.

Removing master looter does not erode your integrity, because it has no impact on whether or not you are trust worthy or reliable.


Perhaps I did not communicate this point well. Many of the tasks and circumstances that Blizzard historically left up to the community are now removed from game. There is little choice left. It is mostly RNG and hopping in and out of queues with players you'll never see again.

There are very few circumstances now where a person can act in a way that would help or hurt their reputation within their community. It's all been stripped away. Cross realm, server coalescing, master loot; these changes have diminished the need for personal accountability or the need to act with integrity; the need to develop that trait. These are the moments that make an MMORPG special from other types of online games -the community you play with.

I understand that this was done to improve experiences for those who had feelings hurt or loot distributed unfairly, and I empathize, but somewhere along the way we have lost what it means to play an MMORPG. I feel we have traded too much freedom of choice in exchange for security of game experience.

I think it's important to make note of how changes like this can significantly impact how we interact with each other in ways that perhaps are not obvious.
It's still funny to me that most of the players that applauded forced PL change were all LFR - Heroic players. A lot of casual players would rather be willfully ignorant and believe the first thing they hear instead of experience the content themselves.
ML allows a guild to target the loot to maximize power gain among the team members. In turn this allows the team to more quickly overpower the raid. By forcing PL it makes the progression much slower. PL makes it much harder to outgear the content. The Blizz goal is to keep the content relavent for as long as possible. ML will never come back for this reason. The Era of min/max is long gone and gone forever. Rngesus also slows progression. All working as intended.
09/05/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Imâge
09/05/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Rosemane
Sorry to break it to you but I rather not have any leader, let alone Guild Leaders dictate who gets what because someone could use it better than I do. I mean, I understand if it helps them the next run but what if I don't get that for the longest time?

It may seem like a minor point I am giving but I used to be part of the guild that is known for asking for gold for carrying, buying specific loot, and eventually resorted to only giving each type of armor/weapon to only to this guild leader's tank and for himself. No one else got it unless the tank or leader doesn't need it or isn't a upgrade. It was absolutely pathetic and as more people realized this when I started to question it, we all got kicked and began seeing recruitments from that guild. So... Do you think I have my own reason to think the change in how looting works is justified?


That was 100% your fault for being in that guild in the first place.


Ah, the old "It's the Victim's fault" excuse.

Thats a stereotypical response from someone who is abusing others.

Also see, "They knew what they were getting into."

It's not the victims fault someone decided to be a scumbag and abuse them.
10/03/2018 10:15 AMPosted by Tincupto
ML allows a guild to target the loot to maximize power gain among the team members. In turn this allows the team to more quickly overpower the raid. By forcing PL it makes the progression much slower. PL makes it much harder to outgear the content. The Blizz goal is to keep the content relavent for as long as possible. ML will never come back for this reason. The Era of min/max is long gone and gone forever. Rngesus also slows progression. All working as intended.


Then they’re going to have to get rid of M+ and titanforging because guilds went into Mythic just as geared as always and they did it without ML.

If Blizzard really wants to slow progression they’re going to have to do a lot more than the master loot thing.

It’s a catch-22 though because the more they do to slow progression and take control away from players the more likely players are to unsub or move on to better games.

There’s a reason nobody plays those “free” mobile games for more than a week. When everything is obviously time gated, and rewards are reduced to a trickle, people give up pretty quickly.

Blizzard is walking a really fine line here and if they lean too hard towards cheaping out on content and making everything a lootbox/lottery then players are going to get fed up.
09/06/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Lucitya
Everytime I see someone say "the ML only gave loot to his friends" I'm skeptical. I mean, I don't doubt that it's happened, but I'm wondering how much of this is directly true, how much is shaded by perception and/or entitlement.

As a rule I'd rather give gear to my tanks or healers, I don't give a crap about getting gear except to be able to do my job. Okay that's an exaggeration, everyone likes a nice upgrade, but I don't play this game for the gear, I play it to kill bosses. Gear is simply a means to that end.

I have read several threads about people confessing of how they "accidentally" gave the loot to a friend rather than the person that should have gotten said gear. Loot ninjas were a thing even before Lfd was a thing. So it happened for sure.

That being said I have run with a few guilds when I was playing more "seriously" and for the most part were fair, loot rules stated up front and followed. However occasionally, depending who was ML an accident would happen a time or two, usually a pug was on the losing end. I was always for playing fair so never did it myself when I was called up to raid/ml lead.

As a side note our guilds usually gave gear to heals and tanks as a priority, with dps getting choice if it was not considered fitting for either. Surprise at how I am seeing healers getting last choice, but this was all cata and prior. /shrug
10/03/2018 10:32 AMPosted by Darkestalker
09/06/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Lucitya
Everytime I see someone say "the ML only gave loot to his friends" I'm skeptical. I mean, I don't doubt that it's happened, but I'm wondering how much of this is directly true, how much is shaded by perception and/or entitlement.

As a rule I'd rather give gear to my tanks or healers, I don't give a crap about getting gear except to be able to do my job. Okay that's an exaggeration, everyone likes a nice upgrade, but I don't play this game for the gear, I play it to kill bosses. Gear is simply a means to that end.

I have read several threads about people confessing of how they "accidentally" gave the loot to a friend rather than the person that should have gotten said gear. Loot ninjas were a thing even before Lfd was a thing. So it happened for sure.

That being said I have run with a few guilds when I was playing more "seriously" and for the most part were fair, loot rules stated up front and followed. However occasionally, depending who was ML an accident would happen a time or two, usually a pug was on the losing end. I was always for playing fair so never did it myself when I was called up to raid/ml lead.

As a side note our guilds usually gave gear to heals and tanks as a priority, with dps getting choice if it was not considered fitting for either. Surprise at how I am seeing healers getting last choice, but this was all cata and prior. /shrug


Even by Cata people weren't gearing healers. Tanks got raced to 4-piece during DS because of the raid wide CDs. But for forever its been practice to gear dps first to kill bosses faster (skip mechanics/shorter phases/etc)
I've yet to loot anything useful in Uldir.

1. It's always a AGI consumable, and I looted one crafting rare.

2. Tanks and healers receive most of the rewards. I've only seen a few DPS, and they were cloth wearers.
10/03/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Tankanbank
09/05/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Imâge
...

That was 100% your fault for being in that guild in the first place.


Ah, the old "It's the Victim's fault" excuse.

Thats a stereotypical response from someone who is abusing others.

Also see, "They knew what they were getting into."

It's not the victims fault someone decided to be a scumbag and abuse them.


Fool me once, shame on you...

Fool me twice, shame on me...

Fool me three times....
10/03/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Cowterstrike
I've yet to loot anything useful in Uldir.

1. It's always a AGI consumable, and I looted one crafting rare.

2. Tanks and healers receive most of the rewards. I've only seen a few DPS, and they were cloth wearers.


Can this please be a meme?

“I was in a group with corrupt personal loot that gave everything to the tanks and healers”.

It’s almost like whether it’s RNG or another human deciding ... people just get salty when someone else wins loot and they don’t and will complain about it.
10/03/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Tankanbank
09/05/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Imâge
...

That was 100% your fault for being in that guild in the first place.


Ah, the old "It's the Victim's fault" excuse.

Thats a stereotypical response from someone who is abusing others.

Also see, "They knew what they were getting into."

It's not the victims fault someone decided to be a scumbag and abuse them.


Actually, yes. Both parties are at fault. If leadership is hoarding gear for themselves and friends then that means several things are going to or should have occurred.

You're going to have a top end and a bottom end that's going to anchor progression due to poor loot management. I'm not sure if people understand this. But having 7 strong DPS and 7 weak ones is going to anchor progression. Guilds that have leadership like that, don't progress.

Best thing to do is leave and find another guild.
10/03/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Tankanbank
09/05/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Imâge
...

That was 100% your fault for being in that guild in the first place.


Ah, the old "It's the Victim's fault" excuse.

Thats a stereotypical response from someone who is abusing others.

Also see, "They knew what they were getting into."

It's not the victims fault someone decided to be a scumbag and abuse them.


Yeah it is their fault. Especially in the context of a video game where no longer being the "victim" is as easy as /ignore and /gquit.

Grow up and (if applicable) grow a pair.
10/03/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Tankanbank
09/05/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Imâge
...

That was 100% your fault for being in that guild in the first place.


Ah, the old "It's the Victim's fault" excuse.

Thats a stereotypical response from someone who is abusing others.

Also see, "They knew what they were getting into."

It's not the victims fault someone decided to be a scumbag and abuse them.


In a real life sense, no its not. But we're not talking about real life. We're talking about a game. We're talking about a guild that YOU chose to join. A raid group that YOU chose to join. There are quite a few remedies to the "abuse". Easiest one, /gquit. But maybe you're invested in the guild. Then you could bring up your concerns to the guild leadership. Believe it or not, most AREN'T on ego power trips and want to keep their guild together (there are some bad ones, sure... which leads us back to option 1, /gquit).

Remember, you hit "Accept" to both that guild invite and raid invite. You had a "Decline" option. Raiders no longer have an option

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