Welp, here’s the latest sim :(

Druid
Look at the gear set the simcraft sim is using. 2x Power Of The Moon traits and 1x streaking stars on Single Target.

Using proper gear for ST (that is, 3x streaking stars) would add around 900 dps extra, which would put us about even with Frost and Elemental.

Again, people are just whining about nothing. Sims are only as good as the information you input into them. The sims you keep linking to are wrong and outdated. Balance is in a decent spot, albeit highly reliant on the right Azerite traits.
09/04/2018 04:45 AMPosted by Aewendil
Look at the gear set the simcraft sim is using. 2x Power Of The Moon traits and 1x streaking stars on Single Target.

Using proper gear for ST (that is, 3x streaking stars) would add around 900 dps extra, which would put us about even with Frost and Elemental.

Again, people are just whining about nothing. Sims are only as good as the information you input into them. The sims you keep linking to are wrong and outdated. Balance is in a decent spot, albeit highly reliant on the right Azerite traits.


Wait... you mean if every warrior simmed without a helmet on (cause helms be ugly) and then they cry about blizzard wont jump at the opportunity to buff them?
every time i see noxxic since mop i can take it serious, their site is always outdate and they are never open to suggestions or complain...

also even if the seems are right the difference in dps would be 2k top, this can easily be countered but playerskill, and this difference should only be visible ate high pro prayer that push the number 1 rank or word first, for ppl who just want to clear the raid and can take 2 to 3 weeks more or can be satisfy with 2-3 mythic plus below tops that should not be a problem.
Simcraft also has us using Seabreeze which is the worst weapon available at that ilvl.

Compare this to the Arcane Mage sim on Simcraft: They are using their 3x best single target trait and have a real weapon equipped, not some !@#$ty proc weapon that's rubbish for every class.
09/04/2018 04:23 AMPosted by Lothlòria
09/03/2018 03:04 PMPosted by Druidbot
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/

Take a look friends. And a big thanks to all those Druids who come in here and explain how fine their dps is.


Yep. My Outlaw Rogue embarrass my feral.


Can confirm... Outlaw (Rogue in general) feels amazing compared to Feral. Too bad I wasted a couple weeks on the Feral to begin BFA. I'm behind everybody now!
I don't know of any ferals pulling 11k consistant dps. Is this with flasks/food/pre-pot ect?
19% down on single target
39% down on 3 target.

I suspect it goes down at least another 10% for every target over 3.

On Freehold and Motherlode sized groups others classes are doing triple the DPS of Feral.
09/03/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Dequan
Gotta take these with a grain of salt. Me and guildees are literally sitting on raid dummies right now and im beating ppl as balance. But yeah, its definitely looking like druid dps is underpowered atm.


Important to remember that these sims are perfect in their rotation execution. If you have a good boomkin standing next to a so-so [insert class here] ofc you could beat them.

That doesn't mean the specs are in a good place, however.
I can't speak much to Feral, but the Simcraft build they used for Balance is not optimal for single target, which is what they're testing.

They used 1 good single tarted artifact trait (Streaking Stars), and two bad ones for single target (power of the moon). Even if they used the same pieces of gear, taking the passive traits is much better for single target... Rezan's Fury on the shoulders (5x better for ST than PotM) and Dagger in the Back on the helm (also 5x better for ST than PotM). The sim also didn't use great trinkets (Ignition Mage's Fuse and Conch).

I'm not saying that Balance is in a great place, for single target... but come on... there's a lot more to the story.

On top of that, noxxic doesn't even provide the gear set that they used. It LOOKS like they used the same setup as simcraft, but who knows?
Balance is doing 77% of the best spec - Nice.
09/04/2018 06:20 AMPosted by Moosairu
I can't speak much to Feral, but the Simcraft build they used for Balance is not optimal for single target, which is what they're testing.

They used 1 good single tarted artifact trait (Streaking Stars), and two bad ones for single target (power of the moon). Even if they used the same pieces of gear, taking the passive traits is much better for single target... Rezan's Fury on the shoulders (5x better for ST than PotM) and Dagger in the Back on the helm (also 5x better for ST than PotM). The sim also didn't use great trinkets (Ignition Mage's Fuse and Conch).

I'm not saying that Balance is in a great place, for single target... but come on... there's a lot more to the story.

On top of that, noxxic doesn't even provide the gear set that they used. It LOOKS like they used the same setup as simcraft, but who knows?


I might be wrong about this...but as a balance drood, are you going to take ONLY single target traits going into a raid? Seems to me like you would want a "balance" of traits for trash, adds, and single target rotations.
09/04/2018 06:44 AMPosted by Fdo
09/04/2018 06:20 AMPosted by Moosairu
I can't speak much to Feral, but the Simcraft build they used for Balance is not optimal for single target, which is what they're testing.

They used 1 good single tarted artifact trait (Streaking Stars), and two bad ones for single target (power of the moon). Even if they used the same pieces of gear, taking the passive traits is much better for single target... Rezan's Fury on the shoulders (5x better for ST than PotM) and Dagger in the Back on the helm (also 5x better for ST than PotM). The sim also didn't use great trinkets (Ignition Mage's Fuse and Conch).

I'm not saying that Balance is in a great place, for single target... but come on... there's a lot more to the story.

On top of that, noxxic doesn't even provide the gear set that they used. It LOOKS like they used the same setup as simcraft, but who knows?


I might be wrong about this...but as a balance drood, are you going to take ONLY single target traits going into a raid? Seems to me like you would want a "balance" of traits for trash, adds, and single target rotations.


This explains why people are upset with their numbers. You cant change armor in M+ or mid fight. But you can change armor between trash and boss.

If you aren't striving for 3-4 sets of azerite traits you aren't playing it right. Mixing up your traits for a rounded build is like making a rainbow deck in magic with only 15 total land. It's more than useless and you would do about as much damage using guardian traits in those slots.

I was so stoked when I got high noon pieces. I have 2 now. Man the best single target ezmode meme set right? Wrong. With 3 pieces wrath gets displaced and spamming sunfire is a dps increase. With 2 pieces it's a dps loss and you actually just default to maintaining sunfire with a single cast to maintain the dot.

Power of the moon? 3 pieces is meme levels of damage. 2 is again suboptimal to other rotations.

Streaking stars? At least this one will always be some sort of increase but when you are talking the difference between 2500 damage each cast and potential 7500 damage each cast it's not even comparable.

The only people who would believe the trait choices and stacking aren't the most important part of an accurate sim are the people who still believe noxxic to be even half as reliable as wikipedia.
I am begining to think that Bliz is planning on druid being worst dps this xpac. It just makes no sense to nerf both survivability and damage at same time unless you trying to make them the worst. I mean feral and boomy weren't exactly OP in legion, they were definatly in the upper half but not OP.
09/04/2018 06:44 AMPosted by Fdo
09/04/2018 06:20 AMPosted by Moosairu
I can't speak much to Feral, but the Simcraft build they used for Balance is not optimal for single target, which is what they're testing.

They used 1 good single tarted artifact trait (Streaking Stars), and two bad ones for single target (power of the moon). Even if they used the same pieces of gear, taking the passive traits is much better for single target... Rezan's Fury on the shoulders (5x better for ST than PotM) and Dagger in the Back on the helm (also 5x better for ST than PotM). The sim also didn't use great trinkets (Ignition Mage's Fuse and Conch).

I'm not saying that Balance is in a great place, for single target... but come on... there's a lot more to the story.

On top of that, noxxic doesn't even provide the gear set that they used. It LOOKS like they used the same setup as simcraft, but who knows?


I might be wrong about this...but as a balance drood, are you going to take ONLY single target traits going into a raid? Seems to me like you would want a "balance" of traits for trash, adds, and single target rotations.


It depends on the fight :)

If the boss is purely ST, yes... we want that goal of 3x Streaking Stars. But, since this trait doesn't even drop on any of the Azerite pieces in Uldir we take what we can get from our M+ chests (remember, Azerite pieces do not drop in M+... only a CHANCE to drop in the weekly chest). Our next best single target traits will be Lazer Matrix and Thunderous Blast.

For AoE we want either 3x Power of the Moon or 3x Lunar Shrapnel.

In raids, this isn't an issue as we can just throw on different pieces in any downtime. Personally, i have 3 Power of the Moon (see my current equips)... 3 Lunar Shrapnel... but only 1 Streaking Star piece to mix with good generic ST traits (Tidal Surge and Rezan's Fury) as my ST loadout.

For M+ we can't swap once the dungeon starts... so it really will depend on my group and the affixes. Since we're not really a single target powerhouse in any case i can forsee myself using more of the AoE/Cleave sets for my M+ runs.
do people just completely ignore the fact that there hasnt been a balance patch yet? From everything i've heard the devs are waiting for the first week of the heroic raid being out before they go ahead and start adjusting the damage of different classes. The sky isn't falling.....yet. just give it a few weeks.
09/04/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Balanced
do people just completely ignore the fact that there hasnt been a balance patch yet? From everything i've heard the devs are waiting for the first week of the heroic raid being out before they go ahead and start adjusting the damage of different classes. The sky isn't falling.....yet. just give it a few weeks.


The question I keep asking is why wasn't this addressed prior to launch? First impressions mean everything to the crowd of elitist that will probably end up putting together a successful raid group for Uldir. Good luck getting data points from heroic raiding ferals, there ::may:: be dozens of them.

Of course I'm a bit salty at the moment, I'm tired of being declined or told to respec to tank or heals if I wanted an invite to a mythic dungeon group.
09/04/2018 06:44 AMPosted by Fdo
09/04/2018 06:20 AMPosted by Moosairu
I can't speak much to Feral, but the Simcraft build they used for Balance is not optimal for single target, which is what they're testing.

They used 1 good single tarted artifact trait (Streaking Stars), and two bad ones for single target (power of the moon). Even if they used the same pieces of gear, taking the passive traits is much better for single target... Rezan's Fury on the shoulders (5x better for ST than PotM) and Dagger in the Back on the helm (also 5x better for ST than PotM). The sim also didn't use great trinkets (Ignition Mage's Fuse and Conch).

I'm not saying that Balance is in a great place, for single target... but come on... there's a lot more to the story.

On top of that, noxxic doesn't even provide the gear set that they used. It LOOKS like they used the same setup as simcraft, but who knows?


I might be wrong about this...but as a balance drood, are you going to take ONLY single target traits going into a raid? Seems to me like you would want a "balance" of traits for trash, adds, and single target rotations.


You can switch gear in raids for trash. On a single target boss you are going to take only single target traits.
09/04/2018 08:01 AMPosted by Furel
09/04/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Balanced
do people just completely ignore the fact that there hasnt been a balance patch yet? From everything i've heard the devs are waiting for the first week of the heroic raid being out before they go ahead and start adjusting the damage of different classes. The sky isn't falling.....yet. just give it a few weeks.


The question I keep asking is why wasn't this addressed prior to launch? First impressions mean everything to the crowd of elitist that will probably end up putting together a successful raid group for Uldir.


These people aren't going to be relying on outdated sims with the wrong Azerite traits for their assessment of how classes are doing though.
We are undertuned, but with 2x streaking stars we can at least not be garbage in ST. Let's wait for the first tuning pass later this week, and for concrete DPS data from Boomies running in Uldir. I think the data will show clearly that Balance needs a buff, and hopefully Blizzard starts nudging us upwards.

Just in case I think I'm going to start leveling another class though. :p

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