BFA Pacing - Missing classic more than ever

Classic Discussion
A few weeks in and I already got the itch for -- choices, slower pacing, meaningful progression, and a better social atmosphere.

BFA feels designed for me to chase a teenager AT TOP SPEED through dungeons and over mountains, without so much as a word. I get better gear, still feel pretty weak. My hands hurt, cuz I never stop pressing the same 6 buttons. No rest. No strat. Nothing. its just a different game.

I bought BFA Blizz. I paid and subbed so you could still take us back in time. I miss you hybrid character...talent trees, complaints about drinking. I miss it all. We there yet Blizz?
today gaming companies care about DAU/MAU.
You are an "active unit" now.
When Daily (DAU) is close to Monthly (MAU) that metric means players are engaged close to 100%.

So to get DAU to be close to MAU they have to time gate and what better way to get players to log in each and every day then "daily quests"...do it or lose it.

i don't want to feel "mandated' to log in every day to do a finite number of quests that gate future content so I can access it.

What if I just want to log in on a Saturday and spend the day getting rep ?
Can't do that in BFA but you can in vanilla. I could spend one entire day farming furblogs for timbermaw rep and spend the rest of the week doing quests, dungeons, professions, leveling alts.

I think MOP was the last time I felt like I had choices on what to do and it didn't prevent me from any future content. Sunday's was my bg day..that's all I did all day as I did chores around the house. Geared my DK and hunter up that way.

I like that when I log in I have choices and that there are many roads to take that eventually lead to the same destination.
09/02/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Shadoween
A few weeks in and I already got the itch for -- choices, slower pacing, meaningful progression, and a better social atmosphere.

BFA feels designed for me to chase a teenager AT TOP SPEED through dungeons and over mountains, without so much as a word. I get better gear, still feel pretty weak. My hands hurt, cuz I never stop pressing the same 6 buttons. No rest. No strat. Nothing. its just a different game.

I bought BFA Blizz. I paid and subbed so you could still take us back in time. I miss you hybrid character...talent trees, complaints about drinking. I miss it all. We there yet Blizz?


That’s exactly why classic is way better! Lvling is trully part of game! You are freely to enjoy every part and details of each mapa city, montain and cave! You dont feel like youre doing somethin in a hush! Even when you had to work on your proffesion it feels epic! Why?
Because every little detail and work you put out to play it is rewarding.

For example: when you complete every quest from a city you would gain a lot of xp and quality life itens. Including dungeons quests and so on.
Professions id say it was mandatory to level on pair with your own level, because it could boost your performance during your gameplay. And thats just awesome.
The slower pace of Classic, particularly due to down time and the size and difficulty of the dungeons, and the fact that the other players in your group exist in the same game world as you, naturally leads to more communication and creates a social experience.
09/02/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Brockthorn
today gaming companies care about DAU/MAU.
You are an "active unit" now.
When Daily (DAU) is close to Monthly (MAU) that metric means players are engaged close to 100%.

So to get DAU to be close to MAU they have to time gate and what better way to get players to log in each and every day then "daily quests"...do it or lose it.

i don't want to feel "mandated' to log in every day to do a finite number of quests that gate future content so I can access it.

What if I just want to log in on a Saturday and spend the day getting rep ?
Can't do that in BFA but you can in vanilla. I could spend one entire day farming furblogs for timbermaw rep and spend the rest of the week doing quests, dungeons, professions, leveling alts.

I think MOP was the last time I felt like I had choices on what to do and it didn't prevent me from any future content. Sunday's was my bg day..that's all I did all day as I did chores around the house. Geared my DK and hunter up that way.

I like that when I log in I have choices and that there are many roads to take that eventually lead to the same destination.


Not saying you are wrong, but mop "choices" for most people was dailies on timeless island and lfr soo
A few weeks in and I already got the itch for -- choices, slower pacing, meaningful progression, and a better social atmosphere.


So how does one make progression more meaningful, as that's more a matter of subjective interpretation than it is an objective metric (like level pacing)

Speaking strictly for myself, reaching level 20 and level 60 meant more to me than reaching 110 did or 120 will do, but that's largely because the game was so new to me and I hadn't done anything like that before. 15 years later, they can't put the genie back in the bottle on this.
09/02/2018 01:31 PMPosted by Hairylegs
09/02/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Brockthorn
today gaming companies care about DAU/MAU.
You are an "active unit" now.
When Daily (DAU) is close to Monthly (MAU) that metric means players are engaged close to 100%.

So to get DAU to be close to MAU they have to time gate and what better way to get players to log in each and every day then "daily quests"...do it or lose it.

i don't want to feel "mandated' to log in every day to do a finite number of quests that gate future content so I can access it.

What if I just want to log in on a Saturday and spend the day getting rep ?
Can't do that in BFA but you can in vanilla. I could spend one entire day farming furblogs for timbermaw rep and spend the rest of the week doing quests, dungeons, professions, leveling alts.

I think MOP was the last time I felt like I had choices on what to do and it didn't prevent me from any future content. Sunday's was my bg day..that's all I did all day as I did chores around the house. Geared my DK and hunter up that way.

I like that when I log in I have choices and that there are many roads to take that eventually lead to the same destination.


Not saying you are wrong, but mop "choices" for most people was dailies on timeless island and lfr soo


Sorry that you only had 2 choices. I had many, many more.
There was the farm, fishing, cooking, bg weekends, pet battles, achievements, etc.
And professions were still good then so i also worked on them.
But not getting rep during leveling didn't prevent me from any content. Once I hit cap i went back and did some of the dailies for what they rewarded.
I also did timeless. No gating there whatsoever to get to timeless except hit level 90.
09/02/2018 02:35 PMPosted by Seralorie
A few weeks in and I already got the itch for -- choices, slower pacing, meaningful progression, and a better social atmosphere.


So how does one make progression more meaningful, as that's more a matter of subjective interpretation than it is an objective metric (like level pacing)

Speaking strictly for myself, reaching level 20 and level 60 meant more to me than reaching 110 did or 120 will do, but that's largely because the game was so new to me and I hadn't done anything like that before. 15 years later, they can't put the genie back in the bottle on this.


They can start by making it so that mobs don't scale to your !@#$in level and gear.
definitely need to follow mechanics in dungeons or else its a wipe
09/02/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Shadoween
A few weeks in and I already got the itch for -- choices, slower pacing, meaningful progression, and a better social atmosphere.

BFA feels designed for me to chase a teenager AT TOP SPEED through dungeons and over mountains, without so much as a word. I get better gear, still feel pretty weak. My hands hurt, cuz I never stop pressing the same 6 buttons. No rest. No strat. Nothing. its just a different game.

I bought BFA Blizz. I paid and subbed so you could still take us back in time. I miss you hybrid character...talent trees, complaints about drinking. I miss it all. We there yet Blizz?


No offense but you sound like players who complained about Warlords of Draenor because they felt like Garrison's were a prison. Back then, nobody was forcing them to stay in the Garrison and print gold on their missions. Nobody was forcing them to do this. They could have gone out into the world and done things but they chose to stay in the garrisons and chose the blame that oddly on blizzard.

You choose to continually do World quests in grind your artifact power and hunt down continuous small upgrades and mash those buttons until your fingers hurt. You do that largely because you have been trained to do that, from expansion after expansion you have taught yourself to hit maximum level and then you do this that and the other thing right away.

Many of us romanticize the idea of classic because back then, we didn't know what to do when we hit 60. We have a general idea, but it was all happening for the first time, so putting in The Grind Time was exciting. Or at least more exciting than it is now.

You could do World quests for 3 hours tonight or you could do World Quests for half an hour and then come back tomorrow and do another half an hour. Blizzard is not forcing you to try to ring out maximum fun and maximum progression as quickly as you can at the start of this expansion. You choose the pace at which you advance. Feeling like you are unsatisfied or tired or are burned out is something only you can do something about. Blizzard can't do anything about how much you decide to play.
WoW, the nostalgia is strong.

(I'm sorry, I just have to do this, I rant about this in my head all the time...I swear I'm not a jerk, here goes!)

Do you guys think Molten Core is going to be a 10 man dungeon? Do you think they're going to turn on flex for Classic? Blackwing Lair was also 40 man. AQ20, AQ40. Naxxramas was 40 man. Zul'Gurub was 20 man. I guess you could form something on Discord since there's no cross-server stuff, or Looking For Group Tool (patch 2.0.1 : TBC) or Looking for Raid....everyone would have to be on the same 2 servers (PvE, PvP...I'm sorry, I'm not even going to acknowledge RP server, but now I did so...whatever), which they'll probably be anyway because they'll have to start small until there's enough interest

You're ready to go back to a guild mentality, where instead of having enough people on a given night to do a 10-30 man raid, you have to coordinate 20 OR 40 people in the same guild (or co-raid with another guild and split that loot. And we're not talking personal loot!) who all for some reason want to go back to raiding Molten Core again? And again? And again? And again? And again? I guess there's Onyxia, though. That'll be fun a few dozen times too, I guess. After you farm fire resist gear for everybody. Or that's before Molten Core? Attunements are fun. No more logging on to do some LFRs on 3 alts. You think they're going to let you raid with multiple classes? Vanilla was not alt-friendly, it was just something to do after you maxed out your character from the 4 raids...1..2...6 raids. 7?

15 minute Paladin buffs, no mass resurrections, only Horde having shamans and alliance having paladins? Make poisons, keep enough ammo in your bags, buff spells require reagents. Oh, wasn't that so awesome! No Jewelcraft or Inscription obviously (Someone said tradeskills were fun back then...yeah, if you were the only person on the server with the Mooncloth Bag recipe. My brother was one of the only, possibly first even for some time on Horde side on my server, not that the mats were fun to farm) No feasts, everyone bring their own food. Oh wait, was there stat food? No Monks, No Deathknights, No Demonslayers. No Blood Elves, no Draenei, no Pandaren, No Goblins, and No Worgen. We're talking Patch 1.12, aren't we? Gods help you if you play a feral druid now (only Tauren and Night Elf need apply, sorry Trolls), because Classic will be a shocker (I became a High Warlord PvPing as a feral...with the little I could do, and the fact that the HWL set was practically the only good set of gear for me). Remember having to attack everything from behind? Let's see.

We didn't have dual-specs back then, btw (patch 3.1.0) ...you paid to change, or you were who you were. Which for healer-capable classes meant...yep, you were a healer. Warrior or Bear tank? Guess how awesome bear was (no, not in TBC, you don't get TBC bear, you get Vanilla bear), you'll probably heal as a druid. Back then it was still "bring the spec, not the player". It was the Wild West where your guild decided what was needed!

No Transmogrification, no void storage. 7 Bag slots in bank. 20 slot bags. No reagent bank. No collections. No Vendor mounts. No 2 player mounts? No jeeves, no Blingtron. No Toys (there were items that acted like toys, but you kept them in your inventory). Let me repeat, no transmogrification (you wear a clown outfit, you look like a clown....but at least we had Black Mageweave, amirite? Oh yeah, no blood elves >.> )

1.12 or "Drums of War":

For the first time, cross-realm Battlegrounds! WOOO. Don't worry, it'll be a short queue with all...oh wait, was AV like 15 on each side? No no, it'll be fine. If ya don't like how long Alterac Valley lasted (anyone remember that epic 41 hour match? That was great, I played the beginning and the end of that one. Or the 16 hour match I played the whole way through...), you could always do Arathi Basin or Warsong Gulch, cuz that's all there was for Battlegrounds. And there was no queue-anywhere system. Oh, no. You sat in front of whatever cave zones you in, or you queued at a "Battlemaster" in Orgrimmar or Stormwind or wherever (I woke up and went to bed outside Arathi Basin for MONTHS...missed so many months of Molten Core with my guild because I couldn't spare the 3 hours twice a week). I'm sure people will show up for some good old world PvP (per server, no sharding, no cross-server zones, etc), but there'll probably be only 1 or 2 servers anyway. A PvE and a PvP. You accidently hit someone's who's flagged and you flag. I don't remember when they let us lock that. Although there was that thing where just leaving combat long enough unflagged you again? 10 seconds? 5 seconds? I dunno.

Not much else to report without comparing all the previous patches and some future ones to pinpoint just where the game is at, but let's see anyway...just some general stuff about WoW in that era. It's basically the last patch before TBC, so everything up to the AWESOME stuff that was released in TBC (omg, remember getting our first greens in Hellfire Peninsula and just become SUPER UBER?...yeah, you needed raid gear to be uber in Vanilla. It'll take some months of DKP...saving your points for an epic weapon or T2 pants. You guys will have a blast keeping track of that stuff. Unless it just gets ninja-looted...BoP was BoP, there was no "eligible user"...they'll probably cave and put in Future WoW stuff, but that would totally tarnish the pureness of Vanilla..err, Classic)

No Mounts until 40 (not 20), no epic mounts until 60 (do you remember just how expensive that was? I didn't raid ZG with my guild out of protest that they wouldn't let me roll on the tiger if it dropped because I didn't get epic riding skill yet...I sure showed them by being one of the only people in the guild to get one once it was soloable...suckers. ANYWAY). No flying mounts, obviously. Those didn't come until TBC. Remember that you started with your race's mounts, and had to get exalted with the other races to learn to ride theirs? That's going to be a lot of runecloth! And remember how mounts were an item, not a learned ability? So they took up a bag slot. As did pets. Pets were items. There will be no collection system for half a decade or so. You'll be so cool when you get Baron Rivendare's mount, with the help of your friends or strangers in an endless string of runs, and then roll on it because you can't just go in and solo the instance over and over. Need to clear the whole place over and over. Fun. I never got it. Not bitter, I swear. Oh yeah, no PvP mounts except for Rank 11s! (this limit will be removed in...oh, 2.0.1). Oh yeah, mounts won't be account-wide until 5.0.1, so you'll have to save up for a mount for each of your alts (I'm sure you guys remember how easy it was to make money...all you had to do was to have an Epic world drop fall in your lap and hope someone else on the server had 200g to buy it)

(sorry for the tangents, I'm having flashbacks, they'll pass)

Warlocks will go back to collecting soul shards...certainly not the class it is today (I remember back PvPing in Arathi Basin knowing that an Affliction Warlock could place all 3-4 DoTs on me with the same button pressed repeatedly, that was fun..)

Rogues will need vanishing powder, poisons, etc. Backstab cost 60 energy, right?...ugh.

Hunters will need to carry ammo. So will warriors because you used guns to range pull. hahaha...oh, memories. Everyone had a ranged slot! ...when were idols put in? Oh, patch 1.10. Remember as a mage you either equipped a staff, sword/offhand or a wand? And then later on they added the ranged slot so you could equip a wand too? Ahh, Stat sticks. Druids had Idols, Paladins had Librams, Shaman had totem (omg, totem slot. Don't you miss collecting all those neat icons with stats that are now just grey icons you might still have in your bank...taking up space.)

Hunter pets, before TBC, were Bats, Bears, Bird of Prey (owls, flap flap flap flap...that was the owl, right?), Boar, Carrion Bird, Cat, Crab, Crocolisk, Gorilla, Hyena, Raptor, Scorpid, Serpent, Spiders, Tallstriders, Turtles, Wind Serpents and Wolves. And none of them looked as cool as today's pets. Maybe they'll use new models? Nah, that wouldn't be Classic enough. Keep it old school!

If you played druid, chances are you'll be healing. Shadow Priest was probably not too great either, not that it mattered because your guild will probably need you to heal too (bring lots of candles, can't remember why >.> ). Shaman. Well, that's only Horde's problem right? Remember only Horde getting Blood Lust? Oh yeah, bring Ankhs so you can self-rez and start ressurrecting 19 or 39 other people.

Remember there were only 4 races on each side until TBC introduced the Blood Elves and Draenei (it was back when alliance was the ugly faction....Dranei saved them, so hawt). We didn't get extra class/race combinations from the starting combos that launched until Cataclysm! No Gnome/Human/Forsaken hunters. No Night Elf/Orc/Dwarf mages. No Tauren Pala...no Horde paladins. No Tauren priests though. Or Troll/Dwarf Warlocks. Everyone can be a warrior though, so...ya got that going for ya. Warriors were fun back then? Right? Before Fury could dual-wield 2-handed weapons, and you actually had stances to dance around in? Yeah....

And stop asking, no there weren't Blood Elf Demonhunters yet!

Classic will be fine, I'm sure everyone will want to stick around for enough months for you to get the gear you want...and do all the raids. They'll totally not go back to that retail WoW" hell after a month of being bored cuz there aren't any Daily Quests or World Quests or dungeon groups you don't have to form up in town and then fly out and hope someone doesn't quit before you even get there, and then someone does quit and someone has to use some form of communication to see if anyone in their guild wants to fly out there and join because there aren't summoning stones yet...or hearth back to town (60 minute cooldown back then)

Meaningful progression. Pre-secondary stats. 1 AGI/1 STR = 1 atk for AGI classes, 1 STR = 2 Atk for STR classes. AGI increases Crit, but STR does not so STR classes didn't get much crit. Around 60 INT gave 1% crit for a caster. We also had Spirit. Spirit...let that sink in. Mana regen. Remember mana problems? Mana not regenerating until 5 seconds after a spell was cast? Maybe that changed by 1.12.0. Pyroblast was a 6.0 second cast...so some mana regen if you just spam Pyroblast? 6 seconds felt like FOREVER back then. Omg. But that was probably about how long a rogue waited to get the energy back between backstabs. Cuz there wasn't increased energy regen or even a haste state until TBC? Something like that. 10 second cooldowns on Stealth for feral and rogue (rogues didn't get their 4 second CD until much later I think). Anyway, that's not progressions...that's regression, my bad.

Progression was "is it leather with AGI on it? Rogue wants it" "Is it cloth with INT on it? Well, yeah, all cloth has...all cloth players want it. Does it have stats at all? Any stats? Can I equip it? Hunter Loot. So meaningful. Very special. Much DKP. Also, anyone remember how you could exhaust all the quests you could possibly find and still be only lvl 55 and have to grind the rest of the way killing furbolgs? Hope they don't fix that, wouldn't want some filthy casuals reaching 60 before the real classic players.

this'll be fun. you guys are going to have so much fun.

(some of my previous facts might be wrong, it's been a long time...the point of my rant remains....if you need to correct me, please be kind. I'm not trying to make anyone mad, or feel dumb. I'm just reminding you of the things you might've forgotten. Just how limited Classic was. Just like people who think Diablo 2 was better than Diablo 3 (I'm sorry, it wasn't, it was nothing but a grind to a max level you never obtained doing endless boss runs trying to get specific pieces of gear based on drop charts and anecdotal evidence. The story wasn't even better.), it was simply the Best We Had At The Time. To each his own, agree to disagree, whatever...this is mostly done for humor and reminding even myself what it was like, so if my post angers you, sSit back in your chair, stare at the screen for a while before you put your fingers on the keys. Now yell as loud as you can. RAAAWWWWRR. Like that. Still mad? Go get a drink or take a walk. Come back when Vanilla...err. Class Server is launched and reread this, by then I'll have remembered I made this post and come back to say "I told you so". have a good one, I'm out)
I quit mid Woltk but wanted to try out Legion. Boy I got severely disappointed but at least, I wanted to try it.

BfA is not looking remotely interesting to me at the moment.

Sure, the new races look cool but having to spend several weeks because of gated content to get them just prevent me from wanting to play.
The Azerith system I find completely dumb and from what I read, see; it is not even a fun system. The artifact weapons, although a system I disliked, at least had some interesting mechanics (it was like the old talent tree system disguised basically).
The classes look all so bland to play, more than in Legion. Warfront against AI .... When it could have been potentially one of the best thing they ever done, they decided to make it against an AI. Holy F.C ...

Anyway, I am looking forward to Classic. This new game is not for me-
@Astralwalker

I think you missed something. We KNOW this, and we WANT it.

I want to play with 39 other dudes in a raid. I want all those "limitations" that make the world of Warcraft more meaningful, more engaging. We KNOW that, and we WANT it.
@Astralwalker Dont know if you are posting pro-classic or anti-classic because all characteristics you said, i love it all... was it to be bad? Really?
@Astralwalker...that is what we want..old school mmoRPG where the RPG really meant something.
09/04/2018 07:07 AMPosted by Astralwalker
WoW, the nostalgia is strong.

(I'm sorry, I just have to do this, I rant about this in my head all the time...I swear I'm not a jerk, here goes!)

Do you guys think Molten Core is going to be a 10 man dungeon? Do you think they're going to turn on flex for Classic? Blackwing Lair was also 40 man. AQ20, AQ40. Naxxramas was 40 man. Zul'Gurub was 20 man. I guess you could form something on Discord since there's no cross-server stuff, or Looking For Group Tool (patch 2.0.1 : TBC) or Looking for Raid....everyone would have to be on the same 2 servers (PvE, PvP...I'm sorry, I'm not even going to acknowledge RP server, but now I did so...whatever), which they'll probably be anyway because they'll have to start small until there's enough interest

You're ready to go back to a guild mentality, where instead of having enough people on a given night to do a 10-30 man raid, you have to coordinate 20 OR 40 people in the same guild (or co-raid with another guild and split that loot. And we're not talking personal loot!) who all for some reason want to go back to raiding Molten Core again? And again? And again? And again? And again? I guess there's Onyxia, though. That'll be fun a few dozen times too, I guess. After you farm fire resist gear for everybody. Or that's before Molten Core? Attunements are fun. No more logging on to do some LFRs on 3 alts. You think they're going to let you raid with multiple classes? Vanilla was not alt-friendly, it was just something to do after you maxed out your character from the 4 raids...1..2...6 raids. 7?

15 minute Paladin buffs, no mass resurrections, only Horde having shamans and alliance having paladins? Make poisons, keep enough ammo in your bags, buff spells require reagents. Oh, wasn't that so awesome! No Jewelcraft or Inscription obviously (Someone said tradeskills were fun back then...yeah, if you were the only person on the server with the Mooncloth Bag recipe. My brother was one of the only, possibly first even for some time on Horde side on my server, not that the mats were fun to farm) No feasts, everyone bring their own food. Oh wait, was there stat food? No Monks, No Deathknights, No Demonslayers. No Blood Elves, no Draenei, no Pandaren, No Goblins, and No Worgen. We're talking Patch 1.12, aren't we? Gods help you if you play a feral druid now (only Tauren and Night Elf need apply, sorry Trolls), because Classic will be a shocker (I became a High Warlord PvPing as a feral...with the little I could do, and the fact that the HWL set was practically the only good set of gear for me). Remember having to attack everything from behind? Let's see.

We didn't have dual-specs back then, btw (patch 3.1.0) ...you paid to change, or you were who you were. Which for healer-capable classes meant...yep, you were a healer. Warrior or Bear tank? Guess how awesome bear was (no, not in TBC, you don't get TBC bear, you get Vanilla bear), you'll probably heal as a druid. Back then it was still "bring the spec, not the player". It was the Wild West where your guild decided what was needed!

No Transmogrification, no void storage. 7 Bag slots in bank. 20 slot bags. No reagent bank. No collections. No Vendor mounts. No 2 player mounts? No jeeves, no Blingtron. No Toys (there were items that acted like toys, but you kept them in your inventory). Let me repeat, no transmogrification (you wear a clown outfit, you look like a clown....but at least we had Black Mageweave, amirite? Oh yeah, no blood elves >.> )

1.12 or "Drums of War":

For the first time, cross-realm Battlegrounds! WOOO. Don't worry, it'll be a short queue with all...oh wait, was AV like 15 on each side? No no, it'll be fine. If ya don't like how long Alterac Valley lasted (anyone remember that epic 41 hour match? That was great, I played the beginning and the end of that one. Or the 16 hour match I played the whole way through...), you could always do Arathi Basin or Warsong Gulch, cuz that's all there was for Battlegrounds. And there was no queue-anywhere system. Oh, no. You sat in front of whatever cave zones you in, or you queued at a "Battlemaster" in Orgrimmar or Stormwind or wherever (I woke up and went to bed outside Arathi Basin for MONTHS...missed so many months of Molten Core with my guild because I couldn't spare the 3 hours twice a week). I'm sure people will show up for some good old world PvP (per server, no sharding, no cross-server zones, etc), but there'll probably be only 1 or 2 servers anyway. A PvE and a PvP. You accidently hit someone's who's flagged and you flag. I don't remember when they let us lock that. Although there was that thing where just leaving combat long enough unflagged you again? 10 seconds? 5 seconds? I dunno.

Not much else to report without comparing all the previous patches and some future ones to pinpoint just where the game is at, but let's see anyway...just some general stuff about WoW in that era. It's basically the last patch before TBC, so everything up to the AWESOME stuff that was released in TBC (omg, remember getting our first greens in Hellfire Peninsula and just become SUPER UBER?...yeah, you needed raid gear to be uber in Vanilla. It'll take some months of DKP...saving your points for an epic weapon or T2 pants. You guys will have a blast keeping track of that stuff. Unless it just gets ninja-looted...BoP was BoP, there was no "eligible user"...they'll probably cave and put in Future WoW stuff, but that would totally tarnish the pureness of Vanilla..err, Classic)

No Mounts until 40 (not 20), no epic mounts until 60 (do you remember just how expensive that was? I didn't raid ZG with my guild out of protest that they wouldn't let me roll on the tiger if it dropped because I didn't get epic riding skill yet...I sure showed them by being one of the only people in the guild to get one once it was soloable...suckers. ANYWAY). No flying mounts, obviously. Those didn't come until TBC. Remember that you started with your race's mounts, and had to get exalted with the other races to learn to ride theirs? That's going to be a lot of runecloth! And remember how mounts were an item, not a learned ability? So they took up a bag slot. As did pets. Pets were items. There will be no collection system for half a decade or so. You'll be so cool when you get Baron Rivendare's mount, with the help of your friends or strangers in an endless string of runs, and then roll on it because you can't just go in and solo the instance over and over. Need to clear the whole place over and over. Fun. I never got it. Not bitter, I swear. Oh yeah, no PvP mounts except for Rank 11s! (this limit will be removed in...oh, 2.0.1). Oh yeah, mounts won't be account-wide until 5.0.1, so you'll have to save up for a mount for each of your alts (I'm sure you guys remember how easy it was to make money...all you had to do was to have an Epic world drop fall in your lap and hope someone else on the server had 200g to buy it)

(sorry for the tangents, I'm having flashbacks, they'll pass)

Warlocks will go back to collecting soul shards...certainly not the class it is today (I remember back PvPing in Arathi Basin knowing that an Affliction Warlock could place all 3-4 DoTs on me with the same button pressed repeatedly, that was fun..)

Rogues will need vanishing powder, poisons, etc. Backstab cost 60 energy, right?...ugh.

Hunters will need to carry ammo. So will warriors because you used guns to range pull. hahaha...oh, memories. Everyone had a ranged slot! ...when were idols put in? Oh, patch 1.10. Remember as a mage you either equipped a staff, sword/offhand or a wand? And then later on they added the ranged slot so you could equip a wand too? Ahh, Stat sticks. Druids had Idols, Paladins had Librams, Shaman had totem (omg, totem slot. Don't you miss collecting all those neat icons with stats that are now just grey icons you might still have in your bank...taking up space.)

Hunter pets, before TBC, were Bats, Bears, Bird of Prey (owls, flap flap flap flap...that was the owl, right?), Boar, Carrion Bird, Cat, Crab, Crocolisk, Gorilla, Hyena, Raptor, Scorpid, Serpent, Spiders, Tallstriders, Turtles, Wind Serpents and Wolves. And none of them looked as cool as today's pets. Maybe they'll use new models? Nah, that wouldn't be Classic enough. Keep it old school!

If you played druid, chances are you'll be healing. Shadow Priest was probably not too great either, not that it mattered because your guild will probably need you to heal too (bring lots of candles, can't remember why >.> ). Shaman. Well, that's only Horde's problem right? Remember only Horde getting Blood Lust? Oh yeah, bring Ankhs so you can self-rez and start ressurrecting 19 or 39 other people.

Remember there were only 4 races on each side until TBC introduced the Blood Elves and Draenei (it was back when alliance was the ugly faction....Dranei saved them, so hawt). We didn't get extra class/race combinations from the starting combos that launched until Cataclysm! No Gnome/Human/Forsaken hunters. No Night Elf/Orc/Dwarf mages. No Tauren Pala...no Horde paladins. No Tauren priests though. Or Troll/Dwarf Warlocks. Everyone can be a warrior though, so...ya got that going for ya. Warriors were fun back then? Right? Before Fury could dual-wield 2-handed weapons, and you actually had stances to dance around in? Yeah....

And stop asking, no there weren't Blood Elf Demonhunters yet!

Classic will be fine, I'm sure everyone will want to stick around for enough months for you to get the gear you want...and do all the raids. They'll totally not go back to that retail WoW" hell after a month of being bored cuz there aren't any Daily Quests or World Quests or dungeon groups you don't have to form up in town and then fly out and hope someone doesn't quit before you even get there, and then someone does quit and someone has to use some form of communication to see if anyone in their guild wants to fly out there and join because there aren't summoning stones yet...or hearth back to town (60 minute cooldown back then)

Meaningful progression. Pre-secondary stats. 1 AGI/1 STR = 1 atk for AGI classes, 1 STR = 2 Atk for STR classes. AGI increases Crit, but STR does not so STR classes didn't get much crit. Around 60 INT gave 1% crit for a caster. We also had Spirit. Spirit...let that sink in. Mana regen. Remember mana problems? Mana not regenerating until 5 seconds after a spell was cast? Maybe that changed by 1.12.0. Pyroblast was a 6.0 second cast...so some mana regen if you just spam Pyroblast? 6 seconds felt like FOREVER back then. Omg. But that was probably about how long a rogue waited to get the energy back between backstabs. Cuz there wasn't increased energy regen or even a haste state until TBC? Something like that. 10 second cooldowns on Stealth for feral and rogue (rogues didn't get their 4 second CD until much later I think). Anyway, that's not progressions...that's regression, my bad.

Progression was "is it leather with AGI on it? Rogue wants it" "Is it cloth with INT on it? Well, yeah, all cloth has...all cloth players want it. Does it have stats at all? Any stats? Can I equip it? Hunter Loot. So meaningful. Very special. Much DKP. Also, anyone remember how you could exhaust all the quests you could possibly find and still be only lvl 55 and have to grind the rest of the way killing furbolgs? Hope they don't fix that, wouldn't want some filthy casuals reaching 60 before the real classic players.

this'll be fun. you guys are going to have so much fun.

(some of my previous facts might be wrong, it's been a long time...the point of my rant remains....if you need to correct me, please be kind. I'm not trying to make anyone mad, or feel dumb. I'm just reminding you of the things you might've forgotten. Just how limited Classic was. Just like people who think Diablo 2 was better than Diablo 3 (I'm sorry, it wasn't, it was nothing but a grind to a max level you never obtained doing endless boss runs trying to get specific pieces of gear based on drop charts and anecdotal evidence. The story wasn't even better.), it was simply the Best We Had At The Time. To each his own, agree to disagree, whatever...this is mostly done for humor and reminding even myself what it was like, so if my post angers you, sSit back in your chair, stare at the screen for a while before you put your fingers on the keys. Now yell as loud as you can. RAAAWWWWRR. Like that. Still mad? Go get a drink or take a walk. Come back when Vanilla...err. Class Server is launched and reread this, by then I'll have remembered I made this post and come back to say "I told you so". have a good one, I'm out)


I just feel the need to point out I hadn't forgotten any of that. You mean a rogue's weapons - that a warrior can also equip - won't be magically/automatically poisoned by the flask of never ending poison the rogue magic ked out of his !@#? The hunter's bow will no longer materialize it's own ammunition from the void? Warlocks soulshards won't just mysteriously pop out of thin air, and classes will take forethought and effort to manage properly? THERE WILL BE ROLE PLAYING ELEMENTS IN A ROLE PLAYING GAME!? THE HORROR!!!

I can't wait. For all of it. Especially for people like you to come back for your, "I told you so!" so that I can throw it right back at you too while happily playing WoW Classic, 'faults' and all.

I mean seriously...most of this is the RPG equivalent of complaining that, in a First Person Shooter, your pistol magazine is limited to between 7 and 18 rounds, rifles are limited to 8, 15, 20, or 30 round magazines, and you only carry 2 to 4 of each on your person plus 1 in the gun. How stupid (or more stupid, depending on your position) would you think Call of Duty or Battlefield are if they took out reloading and ammo restrictions for the sake of 'better, simpler, faster gameplay?' Would you praise the handheld pistol that never runs out of ammo and never needs to reload? Or would it look lazy and uninspired? "Here's a magic pistol that never runs out of ammunition because science!"

"Here's a dagger that's magically poisoned in the hands of a rogue - but not a warrior! Because Class Fantasy! Also take this bow that doesn't run out of ammo, and say goodbye to that quiver you worked very hard to make for the ammo your bow no longer needs. Because science!"

Nah. Give me the old mechanics. Please, give me all the old mechanics. Even buffing, which I hated with a passion - not because of reagents, but because clicking 5 to 40 people every 15 minutes just kinda got monotonous. I can live with it to get the sensible mechanics back.
Blizzard gave mages a mage table but now people no longer need food anymore.
Portals no longer require reagents but nobody needs portals anymore.
Gold falls out of the sky so things now cost millions of gold. Repairs don't cost a serious amount nor is getting repairs difficult because of a mount.
All dungeons follow the same formula.
Progression is hardly noticable since you fight the same mobs in the same zones from 110-120.
You're gear doesn't change due to transmog; if you get new gear you're just transmogging it anyway.
Everything Blizzard introduced throughout the years doesn't benefit the players. It benefits Blizzard.
@astralwhatever

We know that, and we want it. If you don't understand why, thats on you.
09/03/2018 10:17 PMPosted by Revytwohands

No offense but you sound like players who complained about Warlords of Draenor because they felt like Garrison's were a prison. Back then, nobody was forcing them to stay in the Garrison and print gold on their missions. Nobody was forcing them to do this. They could have gone out into the world and done things but they chose to stay in the garrisons and chose the blame that oddly on blizzard.

[/quote]

everything in the expansion worth doing was somehow tied to the garrsion and there were not many fun things to do overall besides dungeons raids and pvp
09/04/2018 07:07 AMPosted by Astralwalker
this'll be fun. you guys are going to have so much fun.

Yes, yes it will. (And I know you were trying for sarcasm, but I'm quite serious.)
09/04/2018 07:07 AMPosted by Astralwalker
I'll have remembered I made this post and come back to say "I told you so".

Funny thing is, if you come back to say "I told you so", you'll find many of us happily playing and enjoying a long list of things you think were unbearable. You'll say your words and they'll have no meaning to us - and we won't even care to return the favor with "We told you so".

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