Did uldir on fire mage

Mage
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Just did 4/8 on uldir as fire. As expected fire is in the gutter. Opener is great, top dps charts by a few K. Then comes the gutter. Drop to dead bottom with 4-6 fireballs before a single proc. Sitting at 34% crit atm. With movement in the encounters actually being a detriment to us then a “fire is the best for mobility” excuse.

Failed on the 5th boss 3 times because of not getting adds down fast enough. I feel bad for my guild because I absolutely know that a huge chunk of it is my fault. None of the adds are stacked enough for us to have auto cleave, conflagration doing 82-120 damage a tick is pathetic.

Our target switching is just trash, our aoe is a joke, single target isn’t bad in opener.

This actually seems worse than the sims predicted. Not sure why feral is crying or getting so many buffs when they can out dps fire without an issue.
09/04/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Kimbustion
This actually seems worse than the sims predicted. Not sure why feral is crying or getting so many buffs when they can out dps fire without an issue.
Maybe because mages can swap specs and still be rdps whereas ferals are stuck with one spec for mdps.
09/04/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Just did 4/8 on uldir as fire. As expected fire is in the gutter. Opener is great, top dps charts by a few K. Then comes the gutter. Drop to dead bottom with 4-6 fireballs before a single proc. Sitting at 34% crit atm. With movement in the encounters actually being a detriment to us then a “fire is the best for mobility” excuse.

Failed on the 5th boss 3 times because of not getting adds down fast enough. I feel bad for my guild because I absolutely know that a huge chunk of it is my fault. None of the adds are stacked enough for us to have auto cleave, conflagration doing 82-120 damage a tick is pathetic.

Our target switching is just trash, our aoe is a joke, single target isn’t bad in opener.

This actually seems worse than the sims predicted. Not sure why feral is crying or getting so many buffs when they can out dps fire without an issue.
Who let the man in the iron mask out of jail ?
It not shocking, Basically their are reasons why people never see a fire mage unless that mage is to stubborn to switch.

09/04/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Binu
09/04/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Kimbustion
This actually seems worse than the sims predicted. Not sure why feral is crying or getting so many buffs when they can out dps fire without an issue.
Maybe because mages can swap specs and still be rdps whereas ferals are stuck with one spec for mdps.


I think a lot of the playbase play a spec, not the class. Please tell me, what spec play like a fire mage in legion? Most fire mages aren't asking to be top dps, just okay dps.
09/04/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Tïm
I think a lot of the playbase play a spec, not the class. Please tell me, what spec play like a fire mage in legion? Most fire mages aren't asking to be top dps, just okay dps.

Well that's the playerbases problem if they choose to use one tool in their toolbox.

Sure is frustrating putting this nail in with my screwdriver.
09/04/2018 08:24 PMPosted by Binu
09/04/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Tïm
I think a lot of the playbase play a spec, not the class. Please tell me, what spec play like a fire mage in legion? Most fire mages aren't asking to be top dps, just okay dps.

Well that's the playerbases problem if they choose to use one tool in their toolbox.

Sure is frustrating putting this nail in with my screwdriver.


Cant the same be said for druid? Hell they have a way better toolbox. This is always the dumbest comment.

Im sorry I enjoy fire and find frost and arcane boring. Guess I shouldnt of chose the class I have a spec I like.

Your argument is literally "You chose mage, not fire." Well here is a secret, Druid chose druid, not feral.
09/04/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Tïm
It not shocking, Basically their are reasons why people never see a fire mage unless that mage is to stubborn to switch.

09/04/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Binu
...Maybe because mages can swap specs and still be rdps whereas ferals are stuck with one spec for mdps.


I think a lot of the playbase play a spec, not the class. Please tell me, what spec play like a fire mage in legion? Most fire mages aren't asking to be top dps, just okay dps.


I agree. Most people play a spec they love more than a class they love. Its crap that any dps spec of any class should be so out of balance that no amount of practice and skill can make it competitive enough to be useful to your guild or friends.
A lot of your Talent choices and Azerite abilities are letting you down.

If you're in a heavy-movement fight, why would you use Rune of Power?

Why Firestarter, which crits for only the first 10% of a Boss' HP, when Searing Heat would crit a Scorch and proc Heating Up/Hot Streak at the last 30% of the Boss' HP.

That's close to one third of the fight where you would have a larger amount of Pyros with 100% movement speed, vs 1/10th of the fight which most is normally burnt down faster with bursty openers by the raid.

Why Conflag instead of LB?

Overwhelming Power on two of your Azerite armors, would give you considerably more Haste more often.

Adds are where Fire shines. I hope you're not just burning one down at a time, and instead switching Targets. You do know you can fire Fireball at one target, and Pyro into a secondary Target at once..
09/04/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Cant the same be said for druid?
No. They might have 4 specs, but none of them fill the same role. If your raid group already has a lot of ranged, they likely don't want another. If your raid already has healers and tanks, they definitely don't need another. If your raid is melee heavy, they don't want another. Mages on the other hand are ranged, ranged and ranged. Swapping specs does not affect your role or raid group in any way outside of your individual performance.

I'd suggest people wait for logs. It's not objective to say "I was beaten in my group". They may have been better geared, better optimised, or simply just better players. Now if they're derping with a grey/green parse and beating your orange parse then you can correctly say that the spec you play is weak, but if you're getting green parses yourself that is a player problem.
09/04/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Dactylion
If you're in a heavy-movement fight, why would you use Rune of Power?

Rune of Power is fine for heavy movement fights. Watch your timers.
Based on the amount of logs out already, Fire is dead last along with Demo warlocks...
09/04/2018 09:29 PMPosted by Heniferlopez
09/04/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Cant the same be said for druid?
No. They might have 4 specs, but none of them fill the same role. If your raid group already has a lot of ranged, they likely don't want another. If your raid already has healers and tanks, they definitely don't need another. If your raid is melee heavy, they don't want another. Mages on the other hand are ranged, ranged and ranged. Swapping specs does not affect your role or raid group in any way outside of your individual performance.

I'd suggest people wait for logs. It's not objective to say "I was beaten in my group". They may have been better geared, better optimised, or simply just better players. Now if they're derping with a grey/green parse and beating your orange parse then you can correctly say that the spec you play is weak, but if you're getting green parses yourself that is a player problem.


Are you stil around trolling mage post? Logs are out fire is the worst in every single aspect of the game.

09/04/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Dactylion
A lot of your Talent choices and Azerite abilities are letting you down.

If you're in a heavy-movement fight, why would you use Rune of Power?

Why Firestarter, which crits for only the first 10% of a Boss' HP, when Searing Heat would crit a Scorch and proc Heating Up/Hot Streak at the last 30% of the Boss' HP.

That's close to one third of the fight where you would have a larger amount of Pyros with 100% movement speed, vs 1/10th of the fight which most is normally burnt down faster with bursty openers by the raid.

Why Conflag instead of LB?

Overwhelming Power on two of your Azerite armors, would give you considerably more Haste more often.

Adds are where Fire shines. I hope you're not just burning one down at a time, and instead switching Targets. You do know you can fire Fireball at one target, and Pyro into a secondary Target at once..


Have you done uldir? Or used living bomb there? There is no use for living bomb nor does it do anywhere near good damage. Wasn’t the math done where you need 10 targets to make it even worth using?

Flame patch doesn’t work well not a lot of adds stack or stay in one spot for that matter, that’s is why conflagration.

There is nothing wrong with using rune of power.

I use firestarter for progression since it is a very long start. Also the fact that lust us best used on last phase most fights. First 10% then combustion combo.

Overwhelming power isn’t anywhere near our top simming azerite nor is it better in practice at all.

I am going to assume you haven’t set foot in uldir yet.

I’m not quite sure why people are in such denial of how bad fire is. Everyone agrees feral is in a terrible spot...and fire is worse than that. But somehow being able to switch to specs we don’t want to play makes fire better than feral? Lol
09/04/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Just did 4/8 on uldir as fire. As expected fire is in the gutter. Opener is great, top dps charts by a few K. Then comes the gutter. Drop to dead bottom with 4-6 fireballs before a single proc. Sitting at 34% crit atm. With movement in the encounters actually being a detriment to us then a “fire is the best for mobility” excuse.

Failed on the 5th boss 3 times because of not getting adds down fast enough. I feel bad for my guild because I absolutely know that a huge chunk of it is my fault. None of the adds are stacked enough for us to have auto cleave, conflagration doing 82-120 damage a tick is pathetic.

Our target switching is just trash, our aoe is a joke, single target isn’t bad in opener.

This actually seems worse than the sims predicted. Not sure why feral is crying or getting so many buffs when they can out dps fire without an issue.


This is 100% me as well. My guild was ranked #69 in the U.S. at the end of Legion and we cleared the first 4 bosses on heroic and we got the 5th down to about 41%. I am in the bottom section all the time on the DPS meters and I know I am not messing up my rotation. Only on the first boss did I have 1 incorrect talent (Blizz servers had issues preventing ppl from logging in at raid time so I rushed and forgot to swap), but that wouldn't explain being dead last next to the tanks despite having Mythic+ gear and substantially better farmed gear than my guildies. Even if you want to make the argument that I suck as a fire mage, look at the warcraftlogs.com site, Fire barely has 1 parse in the Top 100 for some fights and others we don't show up until Top 200. As of this post, only 135 guilds have killed 4 bosses in Heroic Uldir. That means fire mages are all clustered together in the bottom 10% of all mages.

Fire spec is dull, boring, and now vastly underperforming in a raid environment. I will be enjoying the bench next week when we start Mythic if I stay Fire if there are major changes to the spec. But hey, maybe it's Fires turn to be the unforgotten child left in the dark. Last time a spec was so undertuned, Blizzard said they didn't want to overly buff it over the other specs because it wouldn't be fair to the players that are already accustomed to their Frost/Arcane spec.

Likely, Fire mages will be black listed from cutting edge guilds by next week.
Sides even if fire mages can switch spec each spec should have somthing it excels at fire does it sucks at everything
If you want ST go arcane for aoe/st frost
I mean take the adds before zul for instance I pulled 94k without cds as frost tell me fire can even come close when fire has always been amazing at adds
09/04/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Cant the same be said for druid? Hell they have a way better toolbox. This is always the dumbest comment.

Im sorry I enjoy fire and find frost and arcane boring. Guess I shouldnt of chose the class I have a spec I like.

Your argument is literally "You chose mage, not fire." Well here is a secret, Druid chose druid, not feral.

Raid compositions are typically set in their melee/range roles of players which is why I specifically mentioned mdps or rdps, i understand reading is very difficult.

You picked a mage, you are rdps, you have options.
Are you stil around trolling mage post?
"This player disagrees with me and has proven me wrong on multiple occasions, they must be a troll."

09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
But somehow being able to switch to specs we don’t want to play makes fire better than feral?
Objectively yes. You still have options - you can suck it up and deal with low dps, or you can suck it up and play the other two specs. That's one more option than Feral has, and more options is always better.

Logs are out fire is the worst in every single aspect of the game.
I haven't had a chance to look at logs yet, since WCL won't work for me (on 4 different browsers).

09/05/2018 02:27 AMPosted by Colinthetank
Likely, Fire mages will be black listed from cutting edge guilds by next week.
Cutting edge players should be more than prepared to play what it takes to bring the best dps/utility. If they want to be stubborn and stamp their feet, maybe they aren't really cutting edge.

Just wait a week or two. Fire is getting buffed. You'll live that long.
Objectively yes. You still have options - you can suck it up and deal with low dps, or you can suck it up and play the other two specs. That's one more option than Feral has, and more options is always better.


Not taking sides here as more of a casual these days it doesn't bother me much but the feral vs fire mage arguement is invalid.

Fire can go frost or arcane
Feral can go boomy, or decide to get a slot as healer, or tanking until changes are made.

1 class has 2 other viable specs to play
the other has 3 other specs to play

Both can be stubborn and play bad specs though. Doesn't really matter seeing as how unless your a hardcore mythic guild of course and everyone in your core raid group is inflexible to role changing. Always time to learn new things and the expansion is fresh. I somehow doubt every single mythic guild is so inflexible on role changing because world first needs to happen

if that was the case you would be benched as a stubborn fire mage or feral and this post would be meaningless because you put progression before yourself
09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Have you done uldir? Or used living bomb there?

Not til Friday.

Til then, Mythic+



As Fire.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


There is no use for living bomb nor does it do anywhere near good damage. Flame patch doesn’t work well not a lot of adds stack or stay in one spot for that matter, that’s is why conflagration.

Fair enough.


09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
There is nothing wrong with using rune of power.

You were complaining about it being movement-heavy and being detrimental to damage. So it seemed to me that it was not a good option for you to use it.


09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
I use firestarter for progression since it is a very long start. Also the fact that lust us best used on last phase most fights. First 10% then combustion combo.

I understand the mechanics, I just dont think it works out to be as much of an advantage as it appears.

A 'very long start' is subjective. Mathematically it still equates to 1/10th of the overall HP vs 30% of the last HP.

09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Overwhelming power isn’t anywhere near our top simming azerite nor is it better in practice at all.

It's a significant boost to Haste. How is this not better in practice?


09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
I’m not quite sure why people are in such denial of how bad fire is.

Because I'm not in denial. I cannot deny what I do not experience.

That isn't to say we dont agree there should be a buff for Fire.

I just disagree with the premise of it being called 'garbage'.

What if it really is just a case of it being a harder spec for most mage players?

Do you record / screenshot your DPS meters?
09/05/2018 04:23 AMPosted by Binu
09/04/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Cant the same be said for druid? Hell they have a way better toolbox. This is always the dumbest comment.

Im sorry I enjoy fire and find frost and arcane boring. Guess I shouldnt of chose the class I have a spec I like.

Your argument is literally "You chose mage, not fire." Well here is a secret, Druid chose druid, not feral.

Raid compositions are typically set in their melee/range roles of players which is why I specifically mentioned mdps or rdps, i understand reading is very difficult.

You picked a mage, you are rdps, you have options.


Apparently reading for you is very difficult since you want to be on the side of the trolls. So let me use one of their arguments. Unless you are pushing the top 100 guilds there is in no way a reason they cant play boomkin. There now is your argument invalid as well?
09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Have you done uldir? Or used living bomb there?

Not til Friday.

Til then, Mythic+



As Fire.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


There is no use for living bomb nor does it do anywhere near good damage. Flame patch doesn’t work well not a lot of adds stack or stay in one spot for that matter, that’s is why conflagration.

Fair enough.


09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
There is nothing wrong with using rune of power.

You were complaining about it being movement-heavy and being detrimental to damage. So it seemed to me that it was not a good option for you to use it.


09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
I use firestarter for progression since it is a very long start. Also the fact that lust us best used on last phase most fights. First 10% then combustion combo.

I understand the mechanics, I just dont think it works out to be as much of an advantage as it appears.

A 'very long start' is subjective. Mathematically it still equates to 1/10th of the overall HP vs 30% of the last HP.

09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
Overwhelming power isn’t anywhere near our top simming azerite nor is it better in practice at all.

It's a significant boost to Haste. How is this not better in practice?


09/04/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Kimbustion
I’m not quite sure why people are in such denial of how bad fire is.

Because I'm not in denial. I cannot deny what I do not experience.

That isn't to say we dont agree there should be a buff for Fire.

I just disagree with the premise of it being called 'garbage'.

What if it really is just a case of it being a harder spec for most mage players?

Do you record / screenshot your DPS meters?


But it is not that it is harder, you have the best fire mages for the last 3 expansions hopping off fire because of how terrible it is. You have damn near the ONLY fire pvp player in top arenas that has played through every bad stint they have been in immediately switch off of fire once they didnt get changes in live.

Plenty of us have played fire mages and do just fine, pushed heroic content, hell the playstyle hasnt even changed from legion. So to say everyone but you is just not good enough to play this hard spec is plain wrong. If you are topping charts on M+ as a fire mage...especially using living bomb..I would love to see a screenshot of these runs (as in multiple).

There is in no way you put out more than an equally geared or even less but close geared frost or arcane mage in ANY aspect of this game.

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