Azerite level requirements too high

General Discussion
The current Azerite talent system is out of whack and needs to be looked at.

If I go into Uldir with 2-3 azerite talents on an ilvl340 and get a new piece of ilvl355 gear, it's not even an upgrade. I will need to grind out another 2-3 levels of Azerite power to unlock the same exact talents on the last piece.

It makes it so that what should generally be an item upgrade due to its ilvl increase can't be used because you haven't grinded out the Azerite levels.

This is way different from the Legion weapon because in this scenario the newer, higher ilvl item isn't even necessarily better until you have the Azerite power. That isn't completely bad in theory but the speed at which you can level your Azerite levels outside of doing expeditions for hours at a time is too slow.

I have a rogue alt that is at azerite power 17 and got a ilvl350-ish piece from a world boss. There's no way I can replace my 325 chest with it because I don't get any talents.

Please considering adjusting the levels. It's not fun.
Don't worry about traits, and are largely interchangeable garbage anyway. The stat bonuses matter much more.
09/05/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Vitris
Don't worry about traits, and are largely interchangeable garbage anyway. The stat bonuses matter much more.


Demonstrably untrue. I have traits worth over 60ilvl.
09/05/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Ssleak
09/05/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Vitris
Don't worry about traits, and are largely interchangeable garbage anyway. The stat bonuses matter much more.


Demonstrably untrue. I have traits worth over 60ilvl.

Feel free to demonstrate, then.
I think they will make sense later on in the expansion, but for now they are too high. I have even come across armour that has the same ilvl as what I have, but requires a higher ap than what I have to unlock the new trait. Honestly I think it was a way for them to make players collect more armour pieces than in previous expansions just to prolong the grind.
I got a piece of this azerite gear yesterday that was an ilvl upgrade over what I had but I couldn't even unlock one trait so that made it weaker LOL. I scrapped it. Real good system ya got here blizz.
oh man. its almost like blizzard is holding us back a little at hte start of the expac.

your neck gets easier to level each week. thats what this is going on.

just because the tryhards grinded out a level 26 neck before uldir doesnt mean having it at 20 is bad. so bench the gear for a week while you level up your neck.

i dont get why everyone wants to complete everything at the start of the expac. you have 2 years. chill out
09/05/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Colanasou
oh man. its almost like blizzard is holding us back a little at hte start of the expac.

your neck gets easier to level each week. thats what this is going on.

just because the tryhards grinded out a level 26 neck before uldir doesnt mean having it at 20 is bad. so bench the gear for a week while you level up your neck.

i dont get why everyone wants to complete everything at the start of the expac. you have 2 years. chill out


But this isn't about completing everything at the start of the expansion.

This is about not being able to use a higher ilvl piece of gear because of a system that doesn't really make sense. When have you, in any expansion, not been able to benefit from a 30+ ilvl increase because you can't unlock stats on them?
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Demonstrably untrue. I have traits worth over 60ilvl.

Feel free to demonstrate, then.


Oh boy. You should go take a look bloodmallet for azerite rankings. Some traits are worth less than 10 dps while others are worth 500+ dps. Some traits are complete and absolute trash. It's not always even a matter of single target or aoe. Some traits are just trash in general.
09/05/2018 11:14 AMPosted by Vitris
09/05/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Ssleak
...

Demonstrably untrue. I have traits worth over 60ilvl.

Feel free to demonstrate, then.


https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azeritelevels/1t-t22-outlaw

Deadshot is worth more than all but ~7 traits at 355 then the rest at 370, and it gets higher the more you stack. So thats not the 60Ilvl I said, however, that means it is very possible to have 2 pieces with deadshot at 355 be better than a piece at 385 with a different trait.

AND you have to factor second ring traits in too. Heed my Call second ring (which I would have at 355) is worth a ton and an 870 even with an ok trait would need to run a sim to see if its an upgrade or sidegrade at all, depending on my current gears value of Agility.

So its not even close to as simple as "Oh its a high Ilvl I should equip it"
09/05/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Vitris
Don't worry about traits, and are largely interchangeable garbage anyway. The stat bonuses matter much more.


So you're saying that a talent like Thunderous Blast doesn't produce more dps than a 20-30 increase in a primary stat and stamina?

Could you possibly demonstrate that?
09/05/2018 11:29 AMPosted by Krunn
09/05/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Vitris
Don't worry about traits, and are largely interchangeable garbage anyway. The stat bonuses matter much more.


So you're saying that a talent like Thunderous Blast doesn't produce more dps than a 20-30 increase in a primary stat and stamina?

Could you possibly demonstrate that?


The sims already show the opposite so hes just talking out of his butt.
09/05/2018 11:29 AMPosted by Krunn
09/05/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Vitris
Don't worry about traits, and are largely interchangeable garbage anyway. The stat bonuses matter much more.


So you're saying that a talent like Thunderous Blast doesn't produce more dps than a 20-30 increase in a primary stat and stamina?

Could you possibly demonstrate that?


Best part is Blizzard did not want to bring back reforging because it would be to complicated trying to figure out upgrades. Now we have to refer to charts to figure out if an ilvl upgrade is really an upgrade.

I see big nerfs coming to traits next week.
I've played the game off and on since Vanilla and the Azerite grind is on another level from any other grind this game has had. It feels severely unrewarding and feels like something from a P2W MMO because it takes so long to grind Azerite levels. It really screws over any alts you have too because who wants do this grind all over again on an alt or multiple alts.

Hopefully they realize Azerite level exp needs to be adjusted or they are going to lose a ton of subs over it.
09/05/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Ssleak
09/05/2018 11:29 AMPosted by Krunn
...

So you're saying that a talent like Thunderous Blast doesn't produce more dps than a 20-30 increase in a primary stat and stamina?

Could you possibly demonstrate that?


The sims already show the opposite so hes just talking out of his butt.


The best part about anyone not acknowledging that it's a currently messed up system is the "You get more primary stats."

I mean, you do, but depending on the ilvl jump it's like 10-50 primary. That seems like nothing compared to 330 Thunderous Blast :

"Dealing damage has a chance to call down a Thunderous Blast, dealing 1078 Nature damage to the enemy and increasing the damage of Thunderous Blast by 20%. At 100% increased damage, Thunderous Blast will critically hit and reset this effect."
09/05/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Vitris
Don't worry about traits, and are largely interchangeable garbage anyway. The stat bonuses matter much more.
I'm a filthy casual and I'm far more focused on whether things are fun, or whether they feel good to play than I am with numbers. I mean, if I was offered a chance to be the only player in the game to trial the new "OP Class" (like, literally what it is called) and it has a 1 button rotation, which just does 150% of the next highest classes simmed DPS, I would not play that.

So, whether Azerite Traits sim better than item levels or not, the fact that we can get an item level upgrade, but then lose available Gear Traits feels bad. Our upgrades regularly feel like nerfs. It feels like like we're getting a great, big nerf with our item-level upgrade. I don't care what the numbers say, this is a problem.
There shouldn't be Azerite level requirements on any Azerite gear except to enable the innermost ring (+5 item levels).

Otherwise, you get this awful experience where higher item level Azerite gear drops, you can't trade it nor can you fully utilize it.

I'm not the fastest Azerite grinder in the world, but not the slowest either... and I haven't enabled all the rings on all my Azerite gear yet, and that's just mythic 0 stuff.
should have put in the work instead of lvling your alts.
09/05/2018 11:40 AMPosted by Beezlebubba
should have put in the work instead of lvling your alts.
Naw, it's fine, just wait a li'l bit. Then, artifact knowledge will fix it all for everyone, and like, doing one random heroic dungeon will take your neck to 73rd level.

I mean, sure, right now it can be frustrating to not get the traits you want right now, but it's a problem that will just about solve itself before too much longer.
09/05/2018 11:40 AMPosted by Beezlebubba
should have put in the work instead of lvling your alts.


My Azerite level is 1 higher than yours and now that I'm getting higher ilvl stuff I'm not using it because I don't have the levels. You'll see when you start getting higher gear. It's silly and needs to be adjusted.

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