"You can't do that."

World’s End Tavern: Role-play and Fan Fiction
09/06/2018 03:59 PMPosted by Mortre
09/06/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Jazebelle
I agree.

It's a personal decision. Do you want more Roleplay friends, or less.


My characters are often odd concepts that push the limits of many people's rp comfort walls. (See examples here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20768706886#post-13 )

Yet I apparently don't have many RP friends due to it, according to you?

I feel quite the opposite. I have many many RP friends. This isn't facebook where everyone has loosely added friendships and are looking for that friend number as a show of status. I have good, quality RP friends that I am close with. People I care about on a real life level beyond the game, though I've never met them. Some of them are bit more critical of off the wall concepts and are wonderful to bounce ideas off from.

I've found that I don't lack friends from my concepts. Rather, they've garnered me stronger, less superficial friendships. They've filtered out people who have closed minds and lack of creative, outside the box thinking, and/or taken those people and opened their hearts to odd and out of the box character concepts.

I love my friends here. They are #1 the reason I remain subbed during off seasons of wow raiding. There are new friends and old friends that I've been writing with for years. I've not ever noticed a lack of friends.

09/06/2018 02:11 PMPosted by Kirelle
'Ordinary' characters can be made plenty interesting via unique backgrounds


They would no longer be ordinary if their back ground is super unique. And who defines ordinary in a fantasy world of magic and dragons where old god corruption and arcane magic can change anyone on a dime? I have a feeling there would be a lot of "Huh, neat. -continues about their day-" in relation to something weird, but in Azeroth, weird is so commonplace is it ordinary in the world.

The problem many people have is they take headcanons and Earth logic into the world and judge things based on it. Literal basic NPCs hardly flinched when random tentacles broke their boat. Yeah, the whole "OMG GONNA DIE" panic, but not "WTF WHY ARE THERE GIANT TENTACLES OMG THIS IS SHOCKING AND UNHEARD OF." NPCs just deal with the extrodinary as part of their day to day and life. They barely bat an eye. "Oops, created giant bees." "Oh hey, saurid just stole my hat."

Honestly think about the world our characters inhabit. Anyone anywhere could be a demon, anyone anywhere could be meddling with old gods, anyone anywhere could be a dragon, anyone anywhere could be disguised as another. Random people are randomly born with crazy gifts, randomly gain random gifts, randomly get chosen for random things, randomly find random artifacts. There is no true rhyme or reason to why certain people are so powerful other than they are leaders. So why are we limited as writers in that regard?

I do notice a lot of people write Azeroth as if it is Earth. They hold crazy tight to the norms of Earth. But Azeroth is not Earth. Something that would be a norm here, may not be a norm there.

/end rant.


By ordinary I'm talking characters that don't have special attributes like being half demon or being a dragon etc. A human that's just a human. An orc that's just an orc.

What i mean by unique backgrounds, which I probably phrased poorly, is fleshing out your character's backstory. I don't mean 'Johny fell down a well and found a magical artifact' but fleshing out their backstory, what mad them the person they are today, what experiences shaped them. My ultimate point is that there is a middle ground between 'I'm a stock character stereotype' and 'I'm a dragon/demon/related to a lore character' etc. A character's backstory can be unique and interesting without it being used to make them 'special.'

Normal and special are relative terms here. A paladin or mage is not a 'normal' person by earth standards. I mean more by say, adventurer standards.

Now, I'm not saying people should never play 'special' characters like dragons and demons. I'm just saying you don't need those to make a character engaging, my main point was that 'stock sterotype character' and 'special demon/dragon/super mcawesomesauce' are not a dichotomy. There's a lot of area in between you can explore and use to make very engaging and well written characters too.
09/02/2018 07:50 PMPosted by Lyricalla
09/02/2018 07:00 PMPosted by Teallaigh
...

Have to go with this. Back in the early expansions the MC wasn't anything more than a grunt that happened to witness these crazy events. Now their being praised by Odyn for being highly remarkable and running around as a race that is literally almost extinct. We're also introducing alternate dimensions and wielding legendary weapons. Like freaking Frostmourne. Why NOT be a dragon too?


Yeah. Once upon a time, saying something like "I was taught how to fight by Alleria Windrunner herself" would be the basis for a lashing.

Now Void Elves exist.

MCs have stopped being standard footmen/grunts. We are now "The Chosen One."


Simple test
1) Is it plausible?
2) Does it match the character?
3) Does it pass the giggle test?

If you can answer yes to all three questions you are fine.
09/04/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Cannibal
09/04/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Jazebelle
you cannot Roleplay something that does not exist in the game,
shouldn't*

09/04/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Jazebelle
Furthermore, if ridiculous Roleplay is allowed to go rampant inside an RP social circle, the end result is an experience that no longer resembles World of Warcraft.
This is a bad way to think. There's literally zero chance that people doing their Harry Potter RP in Karazhan is going to "ruin" the rest of WoW. You shouldn't treat different roleplay choices like a disease that needs to be eradicated.

09/04/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Jazebelle
The best Roleplay
Your version of best roleplay*

09/04/2018 07:32 PMPosted by Kirelle
Play whatever you want. I'm not the RP police, I can't and have no desire to tell you 'not' to play it. But if you play something that shatters my immersion or I can't stomach, it's also my right to not RP with you. Live and let live. You can RP whatever you want, at the same time not everyone has to accept it.
I don't think anyone's contesting this.


On the bolded part, you’re overthinking what she meant.

What she said is that RPing something outlandish defeats the purpose of RPing in World of Warcraft. When you begin doing this, you’re no longer playing in the world Blizzard created—or you may be, but only because you didn’t literally create your own open world MMORPG—you’re now doing your own thing.

She didn’t say unusual RP was a disease that needs purging. Far from it. She simply made a statement saying that ridiculous role play is way too outlandish to be seriously considered Warcraft by others. That’s it. She didn’t say people shouldn’t do it. I am aware the first part you quoted has her saying the word “cannot,” but she seems literate enough for me to believe she understands that it is absolutely possible to RP as a fire-breathing bucket in this game. I don’t think there was any need to quote her and make the correction you did there. Kinda looks like you’re insulting her intelligence.

As to your comment regarding “the best role play,” she’s talking about a grounded storyline (within what is possible and impossible in a franchise). If there weren’t a “correct” way to tell a story, famous franchises would most certainly lack the success they have because the audience HAS to relate on some level to what its experiencing.

You think there isn’t a right way to tell a story, but that’s only because there are a plethora of ways of saying something, not because everything ever written has been the right way of conveying an idea from the start. Professional editors straight up make a living telling authors their work sucks in certain areas so their work flies with the public. I mean, even you said you give recommendations when asked—that’s probably because you have a sense of what a fitting story in WoW would look like, right?

That’s what she’s talking about. She’s bearing no ill will. And just something that bothered me about your post—you keep telling people how to think without really thinking through why they think how they think first. I wouldn’t, you know, do that. Makes you seem like a presumptuous a-hole.
09/07/2018 02:15 AMPosted by Farrar
What she said is that RPing something outlandish defeats the purpose of RPing in World of Warcraft. When you begin doing this, you’re no longer playing in the world Blizzard created—or you may be, but only because you didn’t literally create your own open world MMORPG—you’re now doing your own thing.


The purpose of RPing in World of Warcraft is to have fun, not to adhere to some vague concept of what Blizzard wants us to RP. Attributing any other purpose beyond "having fun" is like attributing purpose to playing on a playground. You can give it further purpose if you want so long as you do not impose that purpose onto anyone but yourself. Otherwise you just kinda end up looking like a bossy 4 year old.

09/07/2018 02:15 AMPosted by Farrar
She simply made a statement saying that ridiculous role play is way too outlandish to be seriously considered Warcraft by others.


Warcraft RP is generally a bunch of grown !@# adults playing with digital dolls, so your argument of "serious consideration" seems pretty trivial. Additionally, most people who think that "Harry Potter RP" is in anyway outlandish compared to what actually goes on in the Warcraft universe usually have a tenuous grasp on Warcraft lore themselves. Get mad about England existing, then get over it.

But don't worry, times change. Cannibal (and a great deal of this forum) had more or less the same perspectives as you do now, but this was a few years ago and he has generally aged out of this way of thinking. We'll see you in 2020.
She continuously framed RP she wouldn't participate in as somehow negative.

That is incorrect. Full Stop.

There are only two questions that one should ask themselves when RPing.

1) Am I enjoying myself?
2) Is my RP harmful or in any way a hindrance to other players fun?

If you can answer yes to 1 and no to 2 then have fun.

Whether your character is a Stormwind Baker or Onyxias half Protoss cousin, if your having fun while not hindering anyone else's fun than you are RPing correctly. End of story.
I do not like seeing undead half-elf tide sages and half-goblin half-dragon archmages who can never be challenged by a normative character in Orgrimmar nor do I like seeing warlocks with demons out in SW and IF. At some level these types of characters can break immersion for others, and often are incredibly mary sue.
Then dont RP with them?

This really isnt hard. No one is forcing you to acknowledge people whose RP you dont agree with, and it's not your place to try and force RP you've deemed acceptable on others.

Unless they are harassing you theres no reason you cant ignore characters you dont like.
I don't particularly enjoy things that are counter to my tastes, but I've yet to have my immersion ruined in anything I enjoy, whether in WoW or in real life, by someone else having different taste preferences from my own. If someone doesn't enjoy the sound of my "lok'tras," I forget about it and move on. And if I cannot enjoy someone else's tastes, I have absolutely no interest in wasting time lacerating myself by choosing to dwell on that fact, much less in squandering my energy trying vainly to change someone's tastes to better suit mine.
09/09/2018 03:27 AMPosted by Liandrik
I do not like seeing undead half-elf tide sages and half-goblin half-dragon archmages who can never be challenged by a normative character in Orgrimmar nor do I like seeing warlocks with demons out in SW and IF. At some level these types of characters can break immersion for others, and often are incredibly mary sue.


boo hoo
Here's how I see it,I used to have a very staunch opinion back in the day when it came to RP where I was continuously skeptic on the over the top characters people would make. Over time however when I stumbled across the forums and saw people such as my friend Morty play allegedly taboo characters [dragons were pretty frowned on in the past] and how well she wrote those characters [seriously folks,her writing is awesome!] and meeting another friend who plays an eccentric blood mage,my opinions quickly changed and I was willing to embrace the occasional character some would perceive as unorthodox.

I do understand why some people may not be as keen when seeing these characters though,some have been badly burned in the past by players who'd maliciously play the role of a top ranked soldier or uppercrust noble just to be able to justify bossing others around and reign some semblance of superiority over them and when experiences like that occur,it can leave a bad taste in your mouth and leave a person pretty jaded. A mix of this and the occasional shenanigans from RP trolls can more often than not leave a bad experience for some though to this I'd say give the benefit of the doubt,if they turn out to be pleasant company,cool beans play with them if they turn out to be the aforementioned jerks I brought up,then best to ignore and find people who'd more than likely fit your preferences.
09/09/2018 03:27 AMPosted by Liandrik
I do not like seeing undead half-elf tide sages and half-goblin half-dragon archmages who can never be challenged by a normative character in Orgrimmar nor do I like seeing warlocks with demons out in SW and IF. At some level these types of characters can break immersion for others, and often are incredibly mary sue.
I do not like seeing undead priests who use both the Light and the Void. At some level these types of characters can break immersion for others, and often are incredibly mary sue.

It's almost as though I could simply ignore the characters that fit this archetype, right?
09/09/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Cannibal
09/09/2018 03:27 AMPosted by Liandrik
I do not like seeing undead half-elf tide sages and half-goblin half-dragon archmages who can never be challenged by a normative character in Orgrimmar nor do I like seeing warlocks with demons out in SW and IF. At some level these types of characters can break immersion for others, and often are incredibly mary sue.
I do not like seeing undead priests who use both the Light and the Void. At some level these types of characters can break immersion for others, and often are incredibly mary sue.

It's almost as though I could simply ignore the characters that fit this archetype, right?


I agree with you. It makes no aense for undead to be able to use the light. Liandrik is a Shadow Priest that is a member of the Cult of Forgotten Shadows.
09/09/2018 07:15 PMPosted by Liandrik
I agree with you. It makes no aense for undead to be able to use the light. Liandrik is a Shadow Priest that is a member of the Cult of Forgotten Shadows.
... I was being sarcastic to show you that having issues with "non-lore-compliant" things is dumb when those things are actually lore compliant, but you don't seem to know that much lore so I guess it went over your head.

Undead can use the Light. This has been established for over a decade.
Can you please explain how "light" works? The lore states that undead are physically incapable of using the light, much like the Broken, but then we have Forsaken players casting healing spells, and Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas using pseudo-paladin abilities.

Without spoiling too much, we can tell you that wielding the Light is a matter of having willpower or faith in one's own ability to do it. That's why there are evil paladins (for example, the Scarlet Crusade and Arthas before he took up Frostmourne). For the undead (and Forsaken), this requires such a great deal of willpower that it is exceedingly rare, especially since it is self-destructive. When undead channel the Light, it feels (to them) as if their entire bodies are being consumed in righteous fire. Forsaken healed by the Light (whether the healer is Forsaken or not) are effectively cauterized by the effect: sure, the wound is healed, but the healing effect is cripplingly painful. Thus, Forsaken priests are beings of unwavering willpower; Forsaken (and death knight) tanks suffer nobly when they have priest and paladin healers in the group; and Sir Zeliek REALLY hates himself.
Ask CDev, Round 1
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/1008430853

When undead use or are healed by the Holy Light, does it cause them any actual damage or harm, or does it only cause them pain (in addition to the intended effects of the spell)?

Channeling the Light in any way, or receiving healing from the Light, only causes pain. Forsaken priests do not disintegrate or explode from channeling the Light for an extended period of time… though they may wish they would.
Ask CDev, Round 2
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/2721372142

All of this is further established with Felgrim, who is also healed by the Light by Ashra Valandril in the comic Bloodsworn. It hurts Felgrim, but is effective.

According to the Dark Cleric Beryl, a magical leader within the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, the Cult itself teaches that there must be a balance between the Void and the Light, and they ultimately teach both. Quest: Garments of Darkness

There's also these undead who use the Light:
Forsaken Deathwarders
Arienne Black
Sally Whitemane
Sir Zeliek
I do not like seeing undead priests who use both the Light and the Void. At some level these types of characters can break immersion for others, and often are incredibly mary sue.


Makin this now.

Just kidding <3 I have 0 interest in the forsaken and this isn't much of a challenge to create anyway. As you went on to explain lol

Over time however when I stumbled across the forums and saw people such as my friend Morty play allegedly taboo characters [dragons were pretty frowned on in the past] and how well she wrote those characters [seriously folks,her writing is awesome!]


O.o /blushes. I'm not really that great, just put a lot of detail in and stress over the tiniest things. Always trying to think up a way to fine tune and sharpen each character, and love to challenge myself.
I've tried to mollify some my stances. I don't say that you can't rp a dragon any more. It's your 15 a month, who am I to say what you do with your time? I will if asked, try to point out some of the issues with such rp and then leave it there.
09/11/2018 04:09 PMPosted by Drahliana
I've tried to mollify some my stances. I don't say that you can't rp a dragon any more. It's your 15 a month, who am I to say what you do with your time? I will if asked, try to point out some of the issues with such rp and then leave it there.


What are the issues with Dragon RP?
09/11/2018 07:17 PMPosted by Yokumba
09/11/2018 04:09 PMPosted by Drahliana
I've tried to mollify some my stances. I don't say that you can't rp a dragon any more. It's your 15 a month, who am I to say what you do with your time? I will if asked, try to point out some of the issues with such rp and then leave it there.


What are the issues with Dragon RP?


1. You're playing something that you don't have the ability to truly replicate. Vial of the Sands doesn't even come close.

2. Dragons are secretive creatures. Kraus confided his status to Rhonin only after years of acquaintance. If you're truly going to roleplay a dragon, one of the key elements is never admitting to being such. That takes a hell of a lot of patience and subltey.

3. You're automatically going to be lumped with the hordes of players who've done so badly. Is the concept better served in a different venue?
09/12/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Drahliana
1. You're playing something that you don't have the ability to truly replicate. Vial of the Sands doesn't even come close.
Dragons tend to stay in their disguise when interacting with mortals, especially when in their capital cities, so they can be replicated perfectly.

09/12/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Drahliana
2. Dragons are secretive creatures. Kraus confided his status to Rhonin only after years of acquaintance. If you're truly going to roleplay a dragon, one of the key elements is never admitting to being such. That takes a hell of a lot of patience and subltey.
That's incorrect. Krasus didn't reveal he was a dragon because of his weakness due to time travel shenanigans.
At the beginning of the first war against the legion, Korialstrasz became incredibly and inexplicably weak. The cause, which Alexstrasza later determined, was Korialstrasz's future self, Krasus, existing the same time period as a result of being flung back from ten thousand years in the future (See Modern Era section below). Neither incarnation was able to shape-shift during this time.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Korialstrasz#War_of_the_Ancients

There is no evidence that dragons need to hide their identity. They're not scary monsters, they're not hated by the public (most Flights at least), and unless they're explicitly covert for a mission, such as Kalec in Bilgewater, they don't care who knows their identity.

09/12/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Drahliana
3. You're automatically going to be lumped with the hordes of players who've done so badly. Is the concept better served in a different venue?
Says who? Sounds like you're immediately assuming a roleplay archetype to be terrible based on preconceived notions. Don't do that.
09/12/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Drahliana
1. You're playing something that you don't have the ability to truly replicate. Vial of the Sands doesn't even come close.


So are people not allowed to play Forest Trolls? Mok'nathal? High Elves? All of these races are canonically inside playable factions, yet Blizzard has not permitted every race to be playable. What about a slim male human or orc? Are these also unplayable concepts because Blizzard's models make ALL of them musclemonsters?

Additionally, Cannibal is right. Dragons have disguised themselves as gnomes, humans, night elves, and high/blood elves. So in reality, dragons are MORE able to be replicated than far more common races.

09/12/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Drahliana
2. Dragons are secretive creatures. Kraus confided his status to Rhonin only after years of acquaintance. If you're truly going to roleplay a dragon, one of the key elements is never admitting to being such. That takes a hell of a lot of patience and subltey.


Did you fall into a coma during Vanilla and not wake up until now? Dragons reveal themselves literally all the time in every expansion for over a decade. Sure, there are some times when dragons disguise themselves to achieve a certain goal, but that's like saying you can't roleplay a rogue because they also disguise themselves a lot.

09/12/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Drahliana
3. You're automatically going to be lumped with the hordes of players who've done so badly. Is the concept better served in a different venue?


It doesn't sound so nice when you say "I'm going to automatically lump you in with players I don't like." In fact, it sounds like a lore-illiterate schmuck is trying to judge someone preemptively and without any thought involved.
09/06/2018 08:35 PMPosted by Kirelle

By ordinary I'm talking characters that don't have special attributes like being half demon or being a dragon etc. A human that's just a human. An orc that's just an orc.


I’m a dragon who's just a human. Why would I ever want to be a dragon? They're on the verge of extinction except for the Bronze, and in the span of three years, the Black Dragonflight went from being the most decimated flight to being nominated as class of 2018s’ “most likely to succeed”.

The instant Alexstrasza said that the Age of Mortals had begun, the dragons who reigned supreme prior to then suddenly are now being wiped out by the Flights.

Being a dragon... sucks.

On the other hand being a human means that I’m not expected to sit down and die off like an endangered species.

Trust me, give it a few more years and it'll be Extinct in the Wild.

And while I have some regrets and misgivings, they won’t stop me from attempting to become a legend.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum