Non-120 pvp rewards twinks, punishes others

Battlegrounds
Lmaoo at the twinks in this thread who think the current system is defensible.

120 is the more competitive, better balanced, long-term bracket. Newer players can’t learn and ease into things as they level, and they should.
I have no problem really with Twinking allowing people an advantage. If you really want to invest all this time, money, effort into your toon for a low level (God knows why) then fine. You deserve an edge. AN EDGE. Not to be able to 2-3 shot everyone and rampage over an entire BG uncontested.

The problem is Blizzard basically 'enabled' twinking at the exact same time they nerfed Heirlooms into dirt. So now gear matters again at the same time the gear you tell people is there purely for them to level an alt is so far outside the competitive realm that you might as well be made of paper. And that's even for people who have the money to acquire Heirlooms to begin with. If you're straight up newbie status then you're twice as boned.

There's no defense for system the way it is now. Having trinkets and weapons procs that hit as hard as the HP pool of average player is not just twinking, it's straight up broken. You know it as much as anyone knows it and if you defend it you're just lying through your teeth that you think it's at all reasonable.

Personally if I was Blizzard I'd enable stat templates for pre-120 and be done. The process of hand balancing all these broken items isn't really worth it.
If you pvp at lower lvls to help you level faster why are you even bothered by the fact a twink is in a bg,,, Just level up past that bracket and skip the twinks...
when a new person starts a mmo, they have no business even attempting to pvp. only people who have been in a mmo for awhile (months to years) then decide that pve isnt enough and go into pvp.

so anyone who would be level 1-60+ who is a real new player, i mean someone just decided hey im going to try this mmorpg thing ive heard so much about. Would have fun doing quests and experiencing the storyline. When they attempt to go into a bg they will be mauled and should because everyone in a bg has done pvp in some type of game and understand how to pvp. therefore are leaps and bounds better than a new person.

That said.... you crying plebs are just mad you cant level mindlessly in a battleground cause now you need to really play the mmorpg and gear properly as you should to then have fun in a battleground.

As for the complaint that twinks were taken out cause they were a nuisance, that is false, twinks were taken out of bgs from a twink community request cause we new that xp was going to dumb down the battleground experience and we didnt want to always carry plebs. So we asked blizzard to give us our own area to bg, which was successful for years and has had a cult following that persisted through the worst of times.
09/12/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Florentinus
If you pvp at lower lvls to help you level faster why are you even bothered by the fact a twink is in a bg,,, Just level up past that bracket and skip the twinks...


Because the twinks are taking over every bracket. Literally. I see twinks up to 50 bracket now daily. There is no leveling past them or skipping them. Not to mention that's not really a solution to begin with. You don't fix a problem by saying "Well just avoid the problem then."
09/12/2018 01:47 PMPosted by Sún
when a new person starts a mmo, they have no business even attempting to pvp. only people who have been in a mmo for awhile (months to years) then decide that pve isnt enough and go into pvp.

so anyone who would be level 1-60+ who is a real new player, i mean someone just decided hey im going to try this mmorpg thing ive heard so much about. Would have fun doing quests and experiencing the storyline. When they attempt to go into a bg they will be mauled and should because everyone in a bg has done pvp in some type of game and understand how to pvp. therefore are leaps and bounds better than a new person.

That said.... you crying plebs are just mad you cant level mindlessly in a battleground cause now you need to really play the mmorpg and gear properly as you should to then have fun in a battleground.

As for the complaint that twinks were taken out cause they were a nuisance, that is false, twinks were taken out of bgs at a community request cause we new that xp was going to dumb down the battleground experience and we didnt want to always carry plebs. So we asked blizzard to give us our own area to bg, which was successful for years and has had a cult following that persisted through the worst of times.


I don't know how you managed it, but everything you just said is so insanely narrow minded and stupid. By what logic do you declare that PVP is only accessible to the MOST VETERAN OF VETERANS. That's stupid. By your logic you shouldn't need gear to win because you're SO EXPERIENCED. So why would you fight back against gear being taken away unless everything you state is infact a lie and you aren't supremely more skilled than the average pleb.

Anyone who's a true fan of PVP, indeed, of ANY competitive game or sport, wants to see that game GROW. GROWING means including as many people as possible. Where would Football or Baseball or any sport be if the logic to them was "No you can't play Football in Varsity because you didn't play in peewee for 4 years first. Varsity is only available to the most EXPERIENCED football VETERANS." Absolutely garbage way of thinking.

More people = faster queues = more competition = elevates the entire game. Simple logic. You're the same type of person who got mad in Vanilla when Raiders came to PVP and their gear was on par with your PVP gear. THAT'S NOT FAIR, THEY DIDN'T PVP MUCH AS I DID! Who cares? Then STOMP THEM. Show the PVE Raider plebs WHOS BOSS. That's what I did. I RELISHED the opportunity to smash a raid teams casual PVP jaunt. Why are you hiding bro?
09/12/2018 01:41 PMPosted by Taiemadin
Having trinkets and weapons procs that hit as hard as the HP pool of average player i


"Skillstein" trinket and "ISuc'thraze" 2h are the elephants in the room for sure.
Over tuned items are nothing to do with twinking.

I would really recommend you so some minor research and compare stat value between x1 - x9 of gear within the lower brackets. Once you understand how minimal the x9 gear is compared to the first x1 within the bracket, you too will see how balanced this gearing system is.
Although, If a player waltzes into a BG wearing gear from 20 levels ago they will definitely be at a disadvantage.
Any active player will not be in this weak situation, as there are many avenues for gearing.

Minor efforts pay off.
09/12/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Willybrown
09/12/2018 01:41 PMPosted by Taiemadin
Having trinkets and weapons procs that hit as hard as the HP pool of average player i


"Skillstein" trinket and "ISuc'thraze" 2h are the elephants in the room for sure.
Over tuned items are nothing to do with twinking.

I would really recommend you so some minor research and compare stat value between x1 - x9 of gear within the lower brackets. Once you understand how minimal the x9 gear is compared to the first x1 within the bracket, you too will see how balanced this gearing system is.
Although, If a player waltzes into a BG wearing gear from 20 levels ago they will definitely be at a disadvantage.
Any active player will not be in this weak situation, as there are many avenues for gearing.

Minor efforts pay off.


You may be correct to degree for sure. What again I think the logical point of comparison is Heirlooms because it's the gear MOST people will be using because Blizzard designed it that way. Nobody but an Xplocked player is going to spend all the time effort to craft or acquire drops and enchant them just for 9 levels.

Again, I think it's fair to say you should have an edge if you do that. It just isn't an edge right now, its a slaughter.
09/12/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Erelir
120 is the more competitive, better balanced, long-term bracket.


And yet we mow down 120s with 70k HP all day, while we sit on 130k+ HP.
Because they did not put any effort into gearing via crafted/BOES, quests, dungeon options.
What do you call "Twinks at max level?... "Efforts"!

"Prepare for War"
PvP at every bracket sub-120 is a dumb joke in this game. When everyone's running around with half their QoL abilities locked and none of their talents you're hardly learning to play the game.

And if you are interested in learning how to PvP, there's always going to be a corner of the battlefield where you can get some practice in. Twinks can't be everywhere at once.
Honestly, twinks are not a large priority. The game isn’t balanced in low level PvP anyway, and there’s not really anything that demands all low level BG’s be perfectly fair. Sometimes you win BGs, sometimes you don’t. It’s a part of the game. Further, you have teammates. That twink can be easily beaten with minimal coordination. Your team has an equal probability at getting twinked out characters as well, and that single player has relatively small influence on the overall outcome of the game. Learn how to play around what cards you’re given instead of telling blizzard to make the game easier again. It’s already been simplified too much, to where players can’t make a lot of the decisions that they used to be able to make. Stop telling blizzard that the players need their hands held in every aspect of the game, please, for the sake of the remainder of the player base who appreciates a challenge.
09/11/2018 07:06 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe
What would be your advice to new players?

Get to max level first would be my advice. If you seriously think that a new player to the game can even compete with a veteran I don't know what to tell you.


I agree with that, however, one wouldn't expect - as a new player in the lowest tier battleground - to be facing veteran "geared" players. The disparity here is ridiculous. I'd fully expect to face some ultra geared players at max level when I first get there, but not at level 10.


People make alts. They don’t forget how to play the game when they make a new character. I’d suggest working on your skills, even if you’re losing, so that you can compete and/or have fun until you reach a point that you can make waves in battlegrounds. I was in all quest greens through WoD, Legion, and BfA leveling content and was still murdering BG’s because I understand how to place myself and when to leave and enter fights. I just hit 120 but I’m usually near the top of the leader boards with a depressingly horrible 285 Ilvl. I’m not topping charts, but typically am second or third in kills at 120 currently. It’s about learning from your mistakes, refining your play style, and having fun, not doing well in every BG. It takes time to learn how to beat everyone’s a** ;)
09/11/2018 07:06 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe
...

I agree with that, however, one wouldn't expect - as a new player in the lowest tier battleground - to be facing veteran "geared" players. The disparity here is ridiculous. I'd fully expect to face some ultra geared players at max level when I first get there, but not at level 10.


People make alts. They don’t forget how to play the game when they make a new character.


People make alts in SWTOR and ESO too, but they can't one shot other low levels. This is strictly a gear problem, and it's specific to WoW. One can't "learn how to win" against other players if they're going to get one shotted every time they set foot out of the spawn.

As I said, I fully expect to face the grinder as a new max level against established players, but in the lowest tier BG's? That's just stupid, and bad game design.
09/13/2018 07:19 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe
but they can't one shot other low levels

This does not happen, why make this up?
09/13/2018 07:19 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe
going to get one shotted

More misinformation.

324 posts on forums and you have yet to own any BOA items while on a leveling character. It looks like you just want to run into the fire and not get burnt, while crying for help.

Zero effort.
09/13/2018 08:48 AMPosted by Willybrown
09/13/2018 07:19 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe
but they can't one shot other low levels

This does not happen, why make this up?
09/13/2018 07:19 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe
going to get one shotted

More misinformation.

324 posts on forums and you have yet to own any BOA items while on a leveling character. It looks like you just want to run into the fire and not get burnt, while crying for help.

Zero effort.


I'm a new player. I don't mind making the effort as I level, but I do have a problem with facing level 10's that might as well be level 120's compared to me. I don't see how you fail to understand this point.

There is no misinformation here. A slight exaggeration, perhaps, but it conveys the point all the same. Would you feel better if I said "dying in 1-2 seconds" as opposed to "one shotting"?
Twink threads never change. I do wonder how easy it is to obtain decent gear now though (since that's the same line I've been reading for years).

09/12/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Florentinus
If you pvp at lower lvls to help you level faster why are you even bothered by the fact a twink is in a bg,,, Just level up past that bracket and skip the twinks...


Which bracket might that be? I'm guessing there are likely 119 (or I think 114 is the optimal level?) twinks as well.

09/13/2018 07:19 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe


As I said, I fully expect to face the grinder as a new max level against established players, but in the lowest tier BG's? That's just stupid, and bad game design.


I'd forget trying to get your point across. They know, and have read/heard it all before. As a new player, just shrug off the losses (or beatings) twink players give you. There are likely twinks on your team, just stay with them.

It is arguably bad design to have re-merged the brackets now that templates are gone, but I'm not sure anything will change there. How Blizzard didn't anticipate this issue, I don't know. But they have a nasty habit of ignoring many things below max level.
09/13/2018 09:06 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe
I'm a new player


325 posts shows me that you have time on your hands.
There are players in foreign countries that cannot afford full retail WOW that have put much more effort into Character development. You can do the same without ANY restrictions. Asking some questions on how to obtain items which would really help your Game is just as easy as these uninformed QQ threads.

Do you need help on obtaining some BOA items? Possibly, some easy gold farming options for cheap and cheerful Enchants which will help guide you to glory?

This is an MMO, Character Development is a thing.
Stat placement is crucial to any end game activities, sooner you learn the better.
Gearing is 100% the easiest it has ever been in WOW.
Get to max level first would be my advice. If you seriously think that a new player to the game can even compete with a veteran I don't know what to tell you.


Worst advice ever. And all too common coming from no-life nerds.

So you're saying that a paying customer should spend hundreds of hours grinding the game so they can eventually have fun.

No thanks.
09/13/2018 11:40 AMPosted by Willybrown
09/13/2018 09:06 AMPosted by Ravenwulfe
I'm a new player


This is an MMO, Character Development is a thing.
Stat placement is crucial to any end game activities, sooner you learn the better.
Gearing is 100% the easiest it has ever been in WOW.


So is ESO, GW2, SWTOR, EQ, EQ2, etc....and yet in not one of those games can you roll an alt and crap all over other players because your max level supplied it with an outlandish gear advantage.

Also, since you keep bringing up my (low) post count, I briefly picked up WoW about 6 or 8 years ago, but I rarely had time to play so i didn't get much done. With as long as it's been and how much has changed in the game, I am for all intents and purposes, a new player.
09/13/2018 01:44 PMPosted by Ravenwulfe
Also, since you keep bringing up my (low) post count


325 posts and that is your main, It seems like you spend a lot of time posting. (High)

09/13/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Jels
So you're saying that a paying customer should spend hundreds of hours grinding the game

Not at all, just be active in game is all that is needed. Do your quests, dungeons, crafts /boes and empower your character.
Which is what WOW is all about.

09/13/2018 01:44 PMPosted by Ravenwulfe
your max level supplied it

Buy a token? Farm some gold? Craft some items?
Use the economy as it was intended.

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