How can the Horde be redeemed?

Wyrmrest Accord
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09/09/2018 08:49 AMPosted by Cailias
I think it's what's usually offered up as "solutions" for it. Cause a lot of the time it often is brought up with a lot of Alliance bias, and often involves the Horde being subjected to some huge, embarrassing, soul-crushing defeat where everything is rearranged to fit the Alliance's morals and worldview or whatever, while the Alliance as a faction goes through pretty much nothing.


So, the way the Alliance has been treated since Cata?
Plz humanize sylvanas by showing her being upset about losing lordaeron

"Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken, always"

But having her still believe that it was worth it for the horde, and for the war that she still believes sas necessary!

Then show in game or in a cutscebe why she believes the war was necessary.

Many will still not agree of course but at least then theyd understand her reasons.
09/09/2018 08:49 AMPosted by Cailias

I think it's what's usually offered up as "solutions" for it. Cause a lot of the time it often is brought up with a lot of Alliance bias, and often involves the Horde being subjected to some huge, embarrassing, soul-crushing defeat where everything is rearranged to fit the Alliance's morals and worldview or whatever, while the Alliance as a faction goes through pretty much nothing.


Why is it unthinkable for the Horde to suffer that kind of defeat, but totally okay for the Alliance to?
09/09/2018 08:49 AMPosted by Cailias
Honestly, I think people calling the writing bad isn't the main thing that sets these people off.

I think it's what's usually offered up as "solutions" for it. Cause a lot of the time it often is brought up with a lot of Alliance bias, and often involves the Horde being subjected to some huge, embarrassing, soul-crushing defeat where everything is rearranged to fit the Alliance's morals and worldview or whatever, while the Alliance as a faction goes through pretty much nothing.

And then people get really defensive over that.

Personally, it's why my ideas for Horde "redemption" usually have little to do with just killing off one of the last meaningful characters it has and flattening it to a pancake.


There's really no way to get to "I guess I'm a baby killing monster IRL" from "Sylvanas needs to be a raid boss."

"Alliance bias" gets thrown around any time a person posts from an Alliance character and/or says that the Horde has done something wrong, and so it's "Alliance bias" that's always to blame when people are talking about how Horde is written. It's my "Alliance bias" that ties the burning of Teldrassil to the Horde, rather than Blizzard writing it that way.

Those people who actually have a bias towards Alliance, regardless of the writing, are ultimately inconsequential. But it's easier to blame them, and to paint others with the same brush, than to deal with the story we've been given.
09/09/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Conjurus
But it's easier to blame them, and to paint others with the same brush, than to deal with the story we've been given.


09/09/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Conjurus
and so it's "Alliance bias" that's always to blame
09/09/2018 09:25 AMPosted by Balghur
09/09/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Conjurus
But it's easier to blame them, and to paint others with the same brush, than to deal with the story we've been given.


09/09/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Conjurus
and so it's "Alliance bias" that's always to blame

What do you think you're pointing out?
Who was it that said 'Alliance players get mad at blizzard, Horde players get mad at Alliance players'?

Cause hoo boy. Prophetic.
09/09/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Stalairne
Who was it that said 'Alliance players get mad at blizzard, Horde players get mad at Alliance players'?

Cause hoo boy. Prophetic.


i come on here every day and all i read in these kinds of threads are people being mad at the horde players for daring to choose horde, how dare they burn my fictional tree/town/city!! how dare they be evil, how dare they be aggressive, etc. etc.

i dont really know what to say at this point because the conversation has become so inbred and pointless, its clear that alot of alliance don't care that they generalize the horde because as it was pointed out above its far easier to generalize the horde than to specifically address them, i've even seen people getting angry over horde players for riding the undercity plaguebat because it is a 'mark of shame'

when you realize that's the kind of people you deal with (on the realm forums anyway, again, a very small % of players) i don't know how exactly this forum just doesn't devolve further, its honestly really getting irritating and i wish i could have the ability to hide threads or that forum mods would step in and police the place up a bit, we are having continual run on circular conversations in repeat threads arguing the same points with the same people

and that's about it
09/09/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Balghur

i come on here every day and all i read in these kinds of threads are people being mad at the horde players for daring to choose horde, how dare they burn my fictional tree/town/city!! how dare they be evil, how dare they be aggressive, etc. etc.


No one...has ever said this?
Personally I am tired of the faction conflict, period.

Despite it being the main selling point they want to focus on for WoW (for I guess merchandise and to 'hype' the playerbase) it really just stifles the story. Considering how every expac follows the same formula of eventually teaming up with one another to defeat the Big Bad, faction conflict is tired and has become more unnecessary with each passing expac.

With game-mechanics, it certainly isn't necessary. Arenas? Gladiatorial arenas in lore don't follow same-faction teams anyway. Battlegrounds? Give the most flimsy objective without any 'story' and a nice backdrop and it's doable. No one needs deep lore about any of those maps. Raids and dungeons? When has it ever made a severe difference whether or not we're Horde or Alliance when we queue those instances?

I don't know if I'm in the minority here but I'm more than ready to explore a different kind of story and BfA showed me that in spades. I did quest through all of Kul'tiras, and I enjoyed myself greatly! Of course, this was when they didn't pull my ear and drag me back to 'hey, remember we're fighting the Horde!'. I was so wrapped up in what was going on, that it was bliss to forget about the faction war. The same thing happened when I was leveling through Horde side. I was enveloped in this story and this environment and couldn't give a damn about the faction war.

Frankly it's not sustainable in my opinion to write this faction war as compelling because of how they're choosing to present both factions. They want dramatic things to happen that'll affect the in-game world and playerbase (Teldrassil, Undercity) but they refuse to let any reasonable consequences FOR those events take place.

Same old song and dance. Horde will manage to get some kind of Honorable hero in the form of an NPC who will be the driving force for their 'redemption' and they'll have a hand in regaining that honor as a player. Alliance will uh. Do nothing, I imagine. If they get to do anything, it'll be tag along to the Horde protagonist and defeat something and 'Well perhaps peace can happen'. It sticks me that Night Elves won't get any significant retribution or reclamation of territory because that's just how Blizzard is when the peoples of their universe lose everything, I suppose.

Anyway this rant got away from me and I went off topic. I don't think redemption is possible or necessary for the Horde, just realistic consequences for actions and compliance with atrocities. Dismantle the factions or shake them up in the next expac, the Horde is already essentially two different camps.
09/09/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Balghur
i come on here every day and all i read in these kinds of threads are people being mad at the horde players for daring to choose horde, how dare they burn my fictional tree/town/city!!

where is this happening

or are you talking about house vyalin (and if you are big lol)
09/09/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Balghur
as it was pointed out above its far easier to generalize the horde than to specifically address them

That's not what was pointed out above.

What was pointed out above was that it's easier to generalize people critical of how the Horde is written as "Alliance bias". Which is to say, what you're doing.

I'm still working through some of the earlier pages in this thread, but I've yet to see someone generalize Horde players the way you describe, and if you misread what I said so poorly it makes me wonder what else you may have misinterpreted.
09/09/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Orayo
The insistence that the Horde is absolutely completely evil without question or argument and spitting on anyone who thinks otherwise increasingly pisses me off.

cranky because you're evil, aren't you?
09/09/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Balghur
its clear that alot of alliance don't care that they generalize the horde because as it was pointed out above its far easier to generalize the horde

dog everyone knows it's sylvanas alone being a weiner in the lore and typically folks that main orc warriors for most goofball players and if that's generalizing the whole horde then god bless
We just can't see all these threads telling horde players specifically that we hate them because of the power... of the forum cabal
We have this thread every day, and I haven't made an idiot post yet so now is as good as any.

If you're more worried over being generalized by "Alliance" players than either your enjoyment of the story, or your disregard for it, that's a you problem.
09/09/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Kureya
We have this thread every day, and I haven't made an idiot post yet so now is as good as any.

If you're more worried over being generalized by "Alliance" players than either your enjoyment of the story, or your disregard for it, that's a you problem.


I'm sympathetic towards being dismissed. Actual good faith arguments shouldn't be dismissed out of turn.

But the problem is that a lot of Horde players aren't actually making arguments so much as accusations, personal insults and general hysteria.
If you're more worried over being generalized by "Alliance" players than either your enjoyment of the story, or your disregard for it, that's a you problem.


i'm not really worried about it just tired of the content coming on here being trash and mods doing nothing
09/09/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Enekie


I'm sympathetic towards being dismissed. Actual good faith arguments shouldn't be dismissed out of turn.

But the problem is that a lot of Horde players aren't actually making arguments so much as accusations, personal insults and general hysteria.


For posterity, I agree. Part of why I prefaced it as an idiot post. I was considering a longer rant, but decided a condensed format was better.
"I hate this thread" I say, coming into a thread I know I will not enjoy, then replying to it that I do not enjoy the content of the thread I voluntarily read.

I'm joking of course but most of the time if I see a thread I don't care for after skimming a few posts, I generally just avoid it.
09/09/2018 10:33 AMPosted by Balghur


i'm not really worried about it just tired of the content coming on here being trash and mods doing nothing


I could go on quite a rant regarding this, as well as good faith in arguments and the raw disingenuous or misguided attitudes I see across the internet in general.

Frankly speaking, the "Alliance bias" on these threads, alleged, is a significantly lesser comparatively.

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