How can the Horde be redeemed?

Wyrmrest Accord
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Can someone link to me one other thread that says my topic?
Apparently "we have this thread everyday"....
Also if you guys don't like the discussion you don't have to join.
Faction conflict is the hot topic of BfA so ya.....
09/09/2018 10:33 AMPosted by Balghur
i'm not really worried about it just tired of the content coming on here being trash and mods doing nothing

the mods are doing nothing because there is nothing for them to do

they can't be expected to fix your projection problem
09/08/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Marsoor
so far the darkest thing the Alliance has done is kill 200 goblins who were swarming near the area near Xibala with a giant fire elemental


Which really needs to be a daily.

On the topic of Alliance and morally gray, there were hints of it scattered throughout Vanilla and one specifically in BC. And while the writers may have to work around people who don't know how to tell a story, there's no reason to fall into "Alliance is Lawful Good and therefore boring."
Why would the mods do anything?

It's actually not against the rules to criticize the story or speak ill of the Horde.
09/09/2018 10:33 AMPosted by Balghur
If you're more worried over being generalized by "Alliance" players than either your enjoyment of the story, or your disregard for it, that's a you problem.


i'm not really worried about it just tired of the content coming on here being trash and mods doing nothing


People saying things you don't like but are not actually against the forum rules do not require a mod.

They do require maturity on your end, however.
09/09/2018 10:38 AMPosted by Kazimir
09/09/2018 10:33 AMPosted by Balghur
i'm not really worried about it just tired of the content coming on here being trash and mods doing nothing

the mods are doing nothing because there is nothing for them to do

they can't be expected to fix your projection problem


circular arguments are not positive and do not add anything to the forums
Maybe the real Honor was the friends we made along the way
09/09/2018 10:51 AMPosted by Balghur
circular arguments are not positive and do not add anything to the forums

Really there's nothing more circular than ten pages of "I'm not saying it's Horde players!" and then "YOU'RE ALL SAYING IT'S HORDE PLAYERS!"
09/09/2018 11:00 AMPosted by Conjurus

Really there's nothing more circular than ten pages of "I'm not saying it's Horde players!" and then "YOU'RE ALL SAYING IT'S HORDE PLAYERS!"


instead we have ten pages of horde playerbase kicking
09/09/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Balghur
09/09/2018 11:00 AMPosted by Conjurus

Really there's nothing more circular than ten pages of "I'm not saying it's Horde players!" and then "YOU'RE ALL SAYING IT'S HORDE PLAYERS!"


instead we have ten pages of horde playerbase kicking

Please provide examples. I've read 9 out of 12 pages and I still don't see it.

I've seen a bunch of people posting on orcs and saying that they're being kicked, but nobody actually kicking them for playing orcs.

Here, I'll join you guys. We'll see how long it takes before I get kicked.
09/09/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Daisho
Please provide examples. I've read 9 out of 12 pages and I still don't see it.


09/09/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Stalairne
Who was it that said 'Alliance players get mad at blizzard, Horde players get mad at Alliance players'?

Cause hoo boy. Prophetic.


i am not going to go and cite anymore examples because im running out of time on here, so i wish you good luck
09/09/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Balghur
09/09/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Daisho
Please provide examples. I've read 9 out of 12 pages and I still don't see it.


09/09/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Stalairne
Who was it that said 'Alliance players get mad at blizzard, Horde players get mad at Alliance players'?

Cause hoo boy. Prophetic.


i am not going to go and cite anymore examples because im running out of time on here, so i wish you good luck

dude you're literally getting mad at "Alliance players"
Raise your hand if you've ever been personally victimized by Alliance players.
Ignoring the dude with the massive victim complex for a hot second...

I think it would be interesting to see the Alliance score a big, unequivocal win, but have it come at the cost of tarnishing the Alliance's lily-white morality (preferably in a way that can't be weaseled out of or hand waved away by Blizz). Maybe the Alliance could take out a prominent leader, while sacrificing a bunch of civs as collateral.

Blue teams gets a win and a little more nuance, and it could maybe (and this is a BIG maybe) lead to the Alliance questioning their adherence to honorable combat. If doing something "bad" finally gets the job done, it could be tempting to throw out the old rules of war and just go to town on the Horde.

Anyway, I'm very curious to see how the alleged Zuldazar raid might play out. I'm sure I'll be disappointed, but I'm still curious despite myself!!

09/09/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Daisho
Here, I'll join you guys. We'll see how long it takes before I get kicked.

I don't want to kick you because you look like you could cut me in half. :(
There are Highmountain Tauren flying kites in the Troll capital city. One of them says the winds are much stronger than the winds in Highmountain, and that them choosing to join the Horde is already paying off because of this fact.

The Horde have been redeemed. Highmountain Tauren are a treasure. It's over, Alliance. We have the Highmountain.
Horde doesn't need a redemption.
Woo boy I stepped back to level my rogue through Northrend (70-80 isn't a massive pain anymore somehow) and I wasn't really thinking my observations would come back like this, seeing as how it's really just a theory of mine and not something I myself feel on a vehement level. I guess I'll just go respond to a few things since I did kinda start this train of conversation.

09/09/2018 09:01 AMPosted by Kureya
I just want to note this is amusing as a perspective when compared to some other long running perspectives. I.E; Alliance treatment by the narrative.


Yeah, I agree. But I guess it really depends on what matters more to the individual player in terms of their faction. Losing in-lore but still being overall liked outside of it, or winning overall in lore but then having your faction and its characters (who are actual characters, who actually do things. Not Baine.) reviled among the fanbase. It isn't a very good feeling in the latter case when you have more than just a passing interest in the faction you play the most.

09/09/2018 09:01 AMPosted by Azhaar
So, the way the Alliance has been treated since Cata?


Yeah pretty much, but throw on top that the Horde still being seen as villains rather than just being screwed over due to developer bias like the Alliance was. I guess that would just be an added insult. Either way, it isn't fun for the Alliance players, obviously, so Horde players being upset at the prospect isn't too outlandish of an idea.

09/09/2018 09:06 AMPosted by Enekie
Why is it unthinkable for the Horde to suffer that kind of defeat, but totally okay for the Alliance to?


It isn't. I personally wouldn't like it, but it isn't unthinkable. But if you really wanna get into the meat of the issue I have an idea on why its so unappealing for so many Horde players. Mainly that the Horde has so much less that it can afford to lose from a crushing defeat compared to the Alliance. The Alliance still has most of its original leaders from Vanilla kicking around instead of being killed in a novel, killed by a trash mob, or becoming the universally reviled Green Jesus. The Alliance doesn't only have one meaningful character left alive who has moved the story in a significant way that many of the other faction's players want to kill. The Alliance doesn't have someone like Baine God Damn Bloodhoof waiting in the wings to rob the Horde of any dignity as a prospective faction leader. The Horde is really hurting on characters outside of Sylvanas who have any sort of real history or presence in the franchise that actually means anything or purpose within the story, especially when you compare it to the Alliance having Jaina and Anduin both playing roles in the forefront of their faction, and other characters like Alleria or Umbric to a lesser extent. Hell, even Saurfang is more of an Alliance character than a Horde character.

09/09/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Kazimir
where is this happening


Seen it on the subreddit/youtube comments of various BfA stuff/the story forums on occasion. Not so much here. It really just depends on how much credence the individual reading it gives these things. I don't give too much to it, but some people don't cope as well.

09/09/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Conjurus
There's really no way to get to "I guess I'm a baby killing monster IRL" from "Sylvanas needs to be a raid boss."


Don't underestimate the logical leaps humans are capable of.
Seen it on the subreddit/youtube comments

youtube and reddit are not places for reasoned discourse or polite discussion, so that doesn't surprise me (nor should it surprise anyone)

the story forums on occasion

i find this hard to believe, given the story forum's strong horde bias

why, i got "called out" there just the other day for playing an alliance character, which of course means i, the player, tacitly support everything the alliance has ever done
09/09/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Kazimir
i find this hard to believe, given the story forum's strong horde bias


The story forum is such a chaotic mess that you can find basically any sort of bias you're looking for over there in any level of severity or absurdity. I've seen both what you've been "called out" for happen several times, as well as the opposite.

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