How can the Horde be redeemed?

Wyrmrest Accord
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09/13/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Zenztli
sometimes it seems almost like horde diehard fans see the Alliance almost like an NPC faction that's just there to fight and win against while the story focuses on them


It's...it's not?
09/15/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Bebbit
It's...it's not?


i hope not but some people keep acting that way
09/15/2018 12:03 PMPosted by Zenztli
09/15/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Bebbit
It's...it's not?


i hope not but some people keep acting that way


(that was the joke: she was saying "its... not?" in a way that made it seem like she sincerely believed that whole "alliance is an npc faction" thing)
You know, on a related note: when I first started playing WoW I actually thought the Alliance were the bad guys: there were so many human, dwarven, and gnommish enemy npcs to kill, and if you read the quest text for why we're killing them the horde was actually in the right most of the time: the kul'tirans were invading with intent to kill us all, that dwarven bunker was desecrating sacred tauren lands, the scarlet crusade are a bunch of crazies, etc. etc.

The only time I actually felt like a bad guy playing horde was when helping the warsong invade ashenvale!

Even the forsaken could be seen back then as resorting to extreme methods to deal with the existential threat the scarlet crusade, scourge and others posed.

VANILLA wow was morally grey. Battle for azeroth is a black and white checkerboard.
09/15/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Lintsehsu
(that was the joke: she was saying "its... not?" in a way that made it seem like she sincerely believed that whole "alliance is an npc faction" thing)
09/15/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Lintsehsu
she

mademoiselle bebbit
Being wiped out.
I find it interesting that we're all pretty much in unanimous agreement that while the faction war is a boring angle, it would have been much more palpable if the Alliance had been the one to initiate it.

I think that just speaks to the biggest problem with the Alliance in general - we're not allowed to DO things. We react to things. Even "our" expansion, Legion, had us reacting to a outside invasion. And the one character who did do something - that roided out Saytr the Windchime couldn't stop cheerleading - was feared and mistrusted for daring to take the initiative.
09/15/2018 05:06 PMPosted by Vanndrel
I find it interesting that we're all pretty much in unanimous agreement that while the faction war is a boring angle, it would have been much more palpable if the Alliance had been the one to initiate it.

I think that just speaks to the biggest problem with the Alliance in general - we're not allowed to DO things. We react to things. Even "our" expansion, Legion, had us reacting to a outside invasion. And the one character who did do something - that roided out Saytr the Windchime couldn't stop cheerleading - was feared and mistrusted for daring to take the initiative.


Bad Guys Act, Good Guys React.
09/15/2018 05:06 PMPosted by Vanndrel
I find it interesting that we're all pretty much in unanimous agreement that while the faction war is a boring angle, it would have been much more palpable if the Alliance had been the one to initiate it.


I have a pet theory that the core problem with the faction narrative these days is that Ion and others are diehard Horde fanboys who do not understand what made the Horde cool in the first place. Pre-Cata, the Horde were the high fantasy monster faction who weren't evil marauders, who just wanted to find a place in the world and in some cases actively sought redemption. More and more, since that time, they've doubled down on the Horde having "badass" moments which ignore that and assume its only virtue is its ability to conquer and destroy.
It's weird how, even after 14 years of this game, people still try to claim there is no "Faction bias" despite the fact that the company has (on numerous occasions, in fact) admitted that they just enjoying working with the Horde more than they do with the Alliance.

Which is fine, honestly. The Horde, itself, is just genuinely more interesting as a concept than the Alliance is. Everyone has the ability to play both factions, I used to when I liked the Horde more, so it's not like we're barred from playing on the side that is favored.

However, the story is now suffering more than every for it, with some very obviously glaring issues. They've slowly gone down the path of ruining established characters like Sylvanas for the sake of giving that "fist pump" moment for Saurfang (and by "extension" the Alliance, looooool) when he finally overthrows her or whatever.

Nobody wants this, but Blizzard doesn't really care. Because they're not seeing the main complaints about the story to an extent, they're seeing complaints about the actual game right now. Between Warfronts, the disparagingly different quality in terms of faction mounts, azerite gear, and the ever growing problem of some classes being flat out broken, the story seems to have taken a back seat.

That's not to say Blizzard hasn't heard us, of course. They are fully aware that the Horde is practically the evil faction, they've admitted as much. However, in their eyes, they see that the True Horde (lol again) will prevail with honor and redeem themselves.

Except..... what about the Alliance? The ones who got burned, quite literally, due to the actions of the Horde? It's very unsatisfying, and that's why its bad writing.
09/15/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Wolf
It's weird how, even after 14 years of this game, people still try to claim there is no "Faction bias" despite the fact that the company has (on numerous occasions, in fact) admitted that they just enjoying working with the Horde more than they do with the Alliance.


victim complex
09/15/2018 03:29 PMPosted by Lintsehsu
You know, on a related note: when I first started playing WoW I actually thought the Alliance were the bad guys: there were so many human, dwarven, and gnommish enemy npcs to kill, and if you read the quest text for why we're killing them the horde was actually in the right most of the time: the kul'tirans were invading with intent to kill us all, that dwarven bunker was desecrating sacred tauren lands, the scarlet crusade are a bunch of crazies, etc. etc.

The only time I actually felt like a bad guy playing horde was when helping the warsong invade ashenvale!

Even the forsaken could be seen back then as resorting to extreme methods to deal with the existential threat the scarlet crusade, scourge and others posed.

VANILLA wow was morally grey. Battle for azeroth is a black and white checkerboard.


Correct, actually.

The Forsaken were always evil- with them having mind-destroyed slaves and torture victims in Undercity that was explicitly endorsed by Sylvanas because this is all in open sight- but for the rest of the horde anything explicitly evil could easily be chalked up to the behavior of individuals- that one troll quest where you give a night elf prisoner 'forest magic.'
09/15/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Kazimir
mademoiselle bebbit


*Awkward curtsy*
Y'all still haven't capped this thread? Slackers!
09/19/2018 12:25 PMPosted by Gazruk
Y'all still haven't capped this thread? Slackers!


But who's victory is it now?
Nobody's.

In the end, everyone loses.
The Horde can instantly and completely redeem itself by capping this thread.

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