Mythic Tanking as Gaurdian?

Druid
What is the deal with Mythic right now? I can tank like 10 mobs easy in Heroic dungen. But in just a M+2 I pull three mobs and have to use all my defensive CD's and the healer is throwing every heal he got on me and my life is hovering around 10% the entire time. My Ilvl is 330, which I don't think is that bad for a M+2

Is it me? Am I not doing something right? Or is Mythic dungens just that insanely hard right now? Or is 330 ilvl just too low for a M+2. I mean in legion I could tank on my DH up to a M+15 and not even need a healer, if my healer died in Mythic in legion I didn't even care, didn't need them. But now I really feel I can't do even a M+2 as Gaurdian in BFA.
I tanked 2 M+ a +2 and +3 last night, Didn't run into to many issues. The mobs definitely hurt but nothing the healer/frenzied regen couldn't keep up with. Mostly ended up wiping to multiple pulls at once and failed mechanics.

Trash is always the hardest part of the dungeon imo.

Edit: More gear will make this better. Your still using 325 Azerite armors. Get some 330/340 and you'll see the improvements.
Make sure you are saving rage at the end of pulls to start pulls with a stack or two of ironfur. Additionally, use INC roar and typhoon to alleviate damage taken and kitie for a few seconds. This will help greatly.

If you find you are taking too much damage make sure your healer is in range and in position (if they are not very mobile).
I went into a Motherload +3 as guardian (my key) at ilvl 347 and it was not nearly as bad as I was expecting. Of course I loaded the group with a rogue, mage, and paladin (druid healer) so there is that. Still, we had a very smooth run and managed to upgrade the +3 to a +5.

I did 5800 dps for the instance. Not insane, but respectable I guess.

Some places just wreck you though. Kings for one. The heart guardians also hit like a truck on the +5 key we got. I had to run from them like a little girl and just spam moonfire on them. One would think a couple stacks of ironfur would let you stand toe to toe with em, but no.
Which dungeon were you having issues with? Dungeon trash is extremely dangerous, so far, and different dungeons have different flavors of awful.

To be fair, 330 is a bit low... but not impossible. My guild is flush with DPS, so i ran quite a few M+ (2s, 3s, and 4s) over the weekend as Guardian. My tank set is only ~338, and i definitely feel every trash pack.

You will need to really work with your group to CC/Stun things. At your level you may also need to kite the mobs some. If you haven't tried your DH, yet, you will DEFINITELY need to get comfortable with kiting. Make friends with a Frost mage... they're a kiting tank's best friend.

I would also run M0s and hope for some better gear. It's also way less of a jump going from Heroic to M0 than it is Heroic to M+2. Good luck!
One other trick I have been doing with hard trash is to grab them, get a few swipes, thrash and moonfire on them, then typhoon them away, step back and swiftmend/rejuv myself. They made swiftmend heal for a ton in guardian with resto affinity (sometimes crits for 70k!) and rejuv returns 20k. If we can get a slow from thrash in a future buff, this would be even better but I can generally pull of the two self heals and be back in bear before the mobs can cover the distance back to me. Really seems to keep me topped off and probably eases the healer job a lot.
How do you like brambles/rend and tear? I was debating trying it. I've been running bristling and pulv. I don't see the huge rage gains I got in normal dungeons since I'm not pulling as large of groups in M+
I took brambles and rend n tear for the dps gain since bears are kind of low on the aoe dps in M+ (compared to like a demon hunter or pretty much any other tank). Yes rend and tear only give 6% dmg reduction vs pulverize 9% but they boost damage by 6% which just makes swipes and mangles hit that much harder. Also pulverize is a gcd so you have to offset the damage it would give by the damage you could have gotten from an extra swipe in that timeframe. With gcd I figure the more stuff which is a passive damage increase the better.

I could be convinced though that pulverize is the better option for pro druids.
09/10/2018 07:32 AMPosted by Brokenclaws
How do you like brambles/rend and tear? I was debating trying it. I've been running bristling and pulv. I don't see the huge rage gains I got in normal dungeons since I'm not pulling as large of groups in M+


Brambles also generates threat that the other two talents don’t. RnT is superior considering it’s eaiser to keep going especially if one mob dies and another gets the stacks plus you don’t sacrifice damage for Pulverize.

For anyone wondering why trash is so brutal it’s fortified week so the trash already being strong is even stronger
It's just the affixes mostly. I've ran multiple 5-7s as guardian and I save all my CD's for trash pulls because some of them hit like a truck. My biggest issue is mobs that are CC immune with necrotic or stationary that just stand in sanguine pools. Have to go typhoon to try and counter some of that.
Rend and Tear is 6% reduces dmg from the target,,,, Where as Pulverize is 9% reduces all dmg. i would rather have 9% all damage reduced for 20 secs..
09/10/2018 01:53 PMPosted by Florentinus
Rend and Tear is 6% reduces dmg from the target,,,, Where as Pulverize is 9% reduces all dmg. i would rather have 9% all damage reduced for 20 secs..


RnT is a bit of a dps boost for m+ trash which is always a plus. Gotta have to perfect mix of survivability and damage in M+. Which guardians already do the least amount of dmg out of the tanks so squeezing out what we can helps.
Adds in bfa required cc or avoid dmg

With current gear lv people cannot zerg

Hence it is taking more time and need to pull smaller
Ok, so it seems like the way people are dealing with the insane mobs by basically get agro, CC them, then kite them while dps do their thing. Well, its good to know that, thank you for all responding to this thread.

As for the guardian talents, they all seem pretty well balanced. They all seem to give minor differences in dps or damage reduction. Unlike Feral where there is only one way to do your talents to be good.
09/10/2018 01:53 PMPosted by Florentinus
Rend and Tear is 6% reduces dmg from the target,,,, Where as Pulverize is 9% reduces all dmg. i would rather have 9% all damage reduced for 20 secs..


Rend And Tear also increases your damage done to the target by 6%, which is important.
get a better healer lol
Been doing some +6/7/8 lately and I’ve come to realise you just have to have a solid healer and cycle dps cds on trash. No boss has required much more than just using iron fur so far, it’s the trash that’s killer. Some dungeons just feel harder (hard in the sense of the dmg I take/cooldown management) than others. Toldagor is easy, AtalDazar & mother lode too. Waycrest is a joke. However the last few packs in Shrine, almost all of kings rest etc feel brutal.

That said, idk how ideal my group is. Usually running guardian / mw / ele / fury / ret.
09/11/2018 05:44 AMPosted by Cybergrindgg
Been doing some +6/7/8 lately and I’ve come to realise you just have to have a solid healer and cycle dps cds on trash. No boss has required much more than just using iron fur so far, it’s the trash that’s killer.


This is not surprising given that it was fortified this week.

This week will be Tyrannical so you can expect the opposite.
09/10/2018 09:44 AMPosted by Gromergrom
RnT is superior considering it’s eaiser to keep going especially if one mob dies and another gets the stacks plus you don’t sacrifice damage for Pulverize.

The benefit to Pulverize is that once you get the buff, you can actively maintain the full damage reduction across multiple pulls; that's where it shines. It's absolutely the defacto talent for high-key M+ over RnT, hands down.

What people often forget is that Pulverize is a buff on you, the player. As the mobs die, you keep the buff until it expires. The difference with RnT is that as you pull more mobs, in order to reduce their damage to you, you have to reapply thrash. To maximize the 6% reduction, it takes 18 seconds; that's 18 seconds you're taking more damage versus the potential of absolutely 0 downtime with 9% reduction.

It's also worth noting the thrash dot itself that you consume is garbage. The overall damage from its ticks are mediocre and therefore consuming 2 stacks for Pulverize really does not make that world of difference. If you're running GG, Moonfire does far more damage than both the initial thrash attack and the dot combined.

09/11/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Aewendil
Rend And Tear also increases your damage done to the target by 6%, which is important.

In low M+ keys, sure I can support that.

But in higher M+ keys, no way. It's definitely not worth the extra pain on the healer who is also busy trying to do damage themselves and heal. If I can mitigate more damage, my disc priest will be more than able to compensate for that mediocre 6% damage loss.
I feel like a big squishy blob in mythic pluses. Started leveling a paladin. I've tank as guardian since BC, and this just feels the worst. I feel very squishy and threat generation has been an issue as well.

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