Elemental in 8.1

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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10/07/2018 04:34 PMPosted by Vesira
I would like to see the lava surge proc chance increased slightly
Look at the frequency of LvB casts, and you could argue that increasing the lava surge procrate is hardly possible.

This would give elemental the ability to multi dot,
A multi-dotable Flame Shock is inherently competing with Chain Lightning in the 3-5 target area, and that's also the area where you still might be able to get LvB casts off.

If you ask how the decision of DoTs vs. AoE Filler vs. high hitting ST abilities works out, and if it's fun, just ask any Shadowpriest how DoTs vs. Mind Sear vs. VB/Mind Blast (which would be very very similar to FS vs. ChL vs. LvB) plays. It's just stupid, and whatever you do, in the end something feels always wrong.
Resto already has a 5% greater chance to get a Lava Surge and does more damage with Lava Burst then Elemental even with an Overload and our higher crit damage so no you can't argue it's hardly possible.

I do agree that multi dotting for Elemental is wrong. I would rather them change Flame Shock to a single target spell with a 25% Lava Surge chance and no cooldown.
May I join others mentioning the Flame Shock cooldown? For me I will avoid the philosophical end of the discussion and simply say this really makes Shaman feel clunky. Can we get the cooldown removed? Please?
These are a few of my wish list items.

1. Mobility is bad - Gust of Wind and Earthgrab totem
Ele mobility is pretty bad post-Legion, PvE and PvP alike. It wouldn't be so bad if we had access to Gust of Wind and earthgrab totem, as talents, in my opinion.

I would like to see both talents come back and replace Spirit Wolf and Static Charge. This would give us a a T45 row of Gust of Wind, Earth Shield, and Earthgrab Totem - all very competitive and situationally strong talents.

2. Surge of Power
I like this new talent except I would really like the Lava Burst modifier to grant an immediate Lava Surge proc. I would like more interaction with Master of the Elements to create a more diversified element weaving play style, and popping an Earth Shock, into casted LB, into another Earth Shock or Stormkeeper lightning bolt, into the lava surge proc, into the second SK +LB, into something else, etc., etc. I think would be really fun and rewarding for maintaining the chain and would give some really nice on demand burst set up. I really dislike the idea of fire ele being some huge dps CD.

3. Totem Mastery
Anyone else feel like this should be baseline? Calling on totems to passively aid you every 2 minutes or when you move far is kind of boring and feels uninspiring as a talent. Even if the baseline version is only 50% as effective as the talent, it feels like it shouldn't be a talent.

4. More damage into Lava Burst - especially PvP
Meatballs should be rewarding. It's the niche Ele spell but doesn't feel that way imo. Lava Surge procs feel good, visually, but they feel like lean beef hitting the target. It's fine if ES remains the nuke, and LB shouldn't hit as hard as that, but it should still be significant imo. This is especially true in PvP, where casting lightning bolt isn't really an option many times. Lava Burst needs a good buff, at least versus players.
Also, please consider making frost shock generate a small amount of maelstrom. Make it baseline deal half the damage of lightning bolt and generate 4 maelstrom or so. It doesn't benefit from mastery so it will never be better to spam frost shock over lightning bolt.

But if frost shock is as strong as it is because it's supposed to help during movement, I think having it generate maelstrom instead is healthier overall for Ele in PvP and PvE alike.
Remove totem mastery or change it, I hate having a 2 minute buff that I have to reapply during raid fights. It just allow me to benefit from the totems regardless of range.

Give back gust of wind as we have no mobility (ghost wolf can be removed and we have no way of instantly avoiding hazards like virtually all other classes)
Ok, so admittedly I only read about 18/29 pages of this thread.. but it all seems to be a circle jerk of no shock cd, more numbers, various QoL improvements. Apologies if this has been addressed.

Our niche is supposed to be turret casting cleave encounters, basically m+ trash. We benefit heavily from stacking secondary stats. And many (most?) of the complaints in some way boil down to a pacing issue.

Instead of Maelstrom being a spender, could it be a buffbar which fills and powers us up the longer we stay casting. Think Tol Dagor, final encounter where movement is penalized. It could double down on our whole "don't move, throw lightning" thing, and provide an opportunity to give us a secondary stat. Thematically, we're stirring up the storm. mechanically, we're building additional mastery or haste, providing more lightning strikes. It would, theoretically, reward stellar positioning.

I'm wildly inexperienced at balance/game design suggestions, so I'm likely forgetting some catastrophic failure with this system.

Maelstrom would rise and fall quicker. Earthquake and earth shock could be pushed back to cd instead of spender. Perhaps each cast of LB would reduce their cd's. So if you're stationary, and receiving full benefit from maelstrom, you'll be seeing more quakes and nukes. And in the perfect patchwork encounter, we'd become that thunderous embodiment of the storm we're purported to be.

Environments in which we can stutter step would become less of a burden(Vol'Kaal), while longer movements (Cragmaw) would become more punishing. This would also improve the value of Spirit Wolf, giving it a pseudo offensive purpose.

Gust of Wind (since we all love it) could even be reintroduced, but as something of a clean sweep on your maelstrom as payment for your sudden movement. It would be a tool to keep us alive as a proper panic button, but without allowing us the free reign we had before.

More realistically, could we get some under the hood improvements? Separate action bars for our elementals, manually toggling taunt/damage for earth/fire elems respectively is just irritating. Could critters be exempt from Earthie's taunt? And if chain lightning could not jump to passive mobs that haven't been engaged, that'd be awesome. The number of flavor NPCs in places like Motherload and Tol Dagor is a little irritating when paired with wild lightning going where it pleases.

I'll be excited to see any changes, honestly. The 15% bandaid was comforting, but not placating. I look forward to not being disappointed with my spec.
10/08/2018 06:42 AMPosted by Hërn
I do agree that multi dotting for Elemental is wrong. I would rather them change Flame Shock to a single target spell with a 25% Lava Surge chance and no cooldown.


That would be interesting. No CD on flame shock but make it so that if you apply it to one target it removes it from the other.
Didn't Ion just say that if your less mobile, you should be more tanky? I would think if Ele is the turret style caster, then we should have a ton of survivability.
10/13/2018 08:18 AMPosted by Grumpkin
Didn't Ion just say that if your less mobile, you should be more tanky? I would think if Ele is the turret style caster, then we should have a ton of survivability.
There you go, using logic ...

Ele was the most fun spec in all of legion, now I haven't touched it since the first hour I played in BfA.
New build.
Nothing for Shaman.
RIP.
10/13/2018 01:02 PMPosted by Qec
10/13/2018 08:18 AMPosted by Grumpkin
Didn't Ion just say that if your less mobile, you should be more tanky? I would think if Ele is the turret style caster, then we should have a ton of survivability.
There you go, using logic ...

Ele was the most fun spec in all of legion, now I haven't touched it since the first hour I played in BfA.


It was still pretty bleh. Definitely one of the better iterations imo though. I really mis MoP Elemental Shaman.
TL;DR - I keep checking mmo champion several times a week hoping to see a blue post stating what their design goals are for my favorite class and spec, aside from lack of mobility being its weakness. Respectfully, what is my intended, fundamental strength supposed to be as an elemental shaman in the eyes of the dev team? Please?

- an elemental shaman main for almost 14 years

---

For whatever it might be worth, I've been this same elemental shaman since December 2004. I've participated in various "levels of play" over those years, from pvping with folks seeking High Warlord in vanilla, to pushing the current raid content at the end of BC and throughout WotLK, to playing fairly casually and mostly solo during Legion, and lots of gradations in between. I've taken extended breaks from the game from time to time, as well, with increasing frequency as the years go by.

While I love the lore and "class fantasy" and play style (for the most part, there have been a lot of changes over time), shaman, and especially elemental shaman, have often felt like they are overlooked and undertuned. It is frustratingly depressing and completely expected to come into a new expansion feeling shafted to some degree.
Fourteen years is a long time. I'm not trying to come across as making some blanket, patently stupid statement along the lines of "shaman are always terrible". There have been highlights and lowlights. Obviously, I still enjoy the game after all this time enough to post here and continue to play, at least for now.

But it does seem to me that, while all classes have had, and continue to have, their own problems, there's always been a nagging sense that there isn't the passion behind the development of the shaman class that is clearly there for other classes. No one seems to be going "oh man, you know what'd be cool?! if we did x... or if y did this really cool thing... " for shaman the way it seems happens for other classes.

This post may be of limited value, as I'm not providing any hard numbers or factual analysis and instead just giving what are essentially gut reactions, and it's certainly a bit rambly at this point. I simply wanted to put in my two cents from the perspective of a nearly-fourteen-year, single-main elemental shaman.

As such, given that the intended and purposeful limitations of elemental have been clearly stated by the design team, within the greater context of their overall design paradigm of clear class/spec strengths offset with clear weaknesses, and vice versa, it seems perfectly reasonable to expect an equally clear statement of the intended strengths and overall feel they are designing towards.

I have specific thoughts, too, of course, which have been touched on repeatedly throughout this thread already, the two main ones being:
- Echo of the Elements should just be a baseline thing. This is the most important thing in my mind.
- Remove CD on flameshock, or in some way address the frustrating experience of target swapping.

Basically, I know its early in the PTR process, but I share in the concern with other shamans posting here regarding the direction and apparent intent of the current changes. If we could just know what our class is intended to be good at, I think that would be helpful to all parties, as it will certainly improve the quality of feedback and alleviate some player anxiety at the same time.
10/15/2018 02:33 PMPosted by Axön
I have specific thoughts, too, of course, which have been touched on repeatedly throughout this thread already, the two main ones being:
- Echo of the Elements should just be a baseline thing. This is the most important thing in my mind.
- Remove CD on flameshock, or in some way address the frustrating experience of target swapping.


I have a few thoughts myself on improvements.

Nothing ever competes with Echo, it needs to be made baseline i agree. Assuming Echo of Elements is baseline, move Control of Lava in its place. Instead of Control of Lava replacing Lava Surge, keep Lava Surge, but replace Echo of Elements. The reason people dont take this in PvP is because it replaces Lava Surge and we need Lava Surge in PvP especially. Make the damage buff higher than 25% so in exchange for charges of LvB, we get a nuking type of LvB. This will also make Earthen Rage more competitive since its not in the same tier as Echo of Elements.

Switch Icefury and Unlimited power in the talent trees. Unlimited Power is strong but not as a 100 talent. A 100 talent should be game changing, where UP is not really game changing but QoL improvement. That would make something compete with Surge of Power for those who arent a fan of that and dont want to play Pet spec.

With IceFury in the 100 Talent row, buff the damage so its an actual nuke and worth taking. Remove 2 charges of Frost Shock from it, so it is only 2 charges. You can buff each charge as well. The problems with IF currently are two fold, first it doesnt do much damage. Second, no one wants to spend 4 globals casting Frost Shock not building maelstrom when ES is our hardest hitting ability. So make it two charges so we can get back to building maelstrom.

Also, add in some maelstrom to Frost Shock, like 4-6 per use, so we can build maelstrom while kiting.

I'm fine with the cd on Flame Shock, since the duration is buffed to 24 seconds. But we do need some type of dispel protection. Holy pally have passive dispels everytime they heal. We need to be protected from stuff like that, such as instantly resetting cd on Flame Shock and causing an instant Lava Surge proc. This way its a waste to dispel because we can recast it and to prevent healers from forcing us to have to use an extra global so they dispel anyways, an instant Lava Surge proc is generated. This will allow us to instantly nuke as punishment, unless defended by stunning, cc'd, etc.

Also we could use a survivability buff, since we are essentially turrets. Maybe make the ENH PvP talent, Ethereal Form baseline and NOT replacing Astral Shift. You can raise the cd to 1min on it as well for the trade off.

I hope to see some of these, if not all of these implemented. I feel this would really give us some balance back and fit the class fantasy, while making everyone happy. With the 100 talent row IF, SK, and Ascendance you could litterally make your Ele a master of all elements (IF), Lightning based (SK), and Lava based (Ascendance). I believe most people fall into one of those 3 iterations elemental shaman, while still giving us some quality of life improvements as well that fit the intention of the direction of class design.
been playing elemental as a main since early wotlk, resto since beta.

this. is. painful.

nothing more to say without spewing negativity.

eote base. flame-s with no cd. some pvp help. more suitability or mobility. everyone is iterating the same thing. has been for ages, nothing touched. these new 'talents' are as close to a dumpster fire as you can get, especially competing with the ones we -must- use now.

why do we do this to ourselves?? it sucks forever being the black sheep of the game.
Why did we even waste out time writing these post? I think I'm done. They have had long enough to implement some of these changes or at least debate/communicate with us about these changes. Just like Alpha and Beta, you have not changed one bit Blizzard. Good job Blizz, you just lost another sub. 11/1 will be my last day till you fix this.
10/12/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Uhdon
Give back gust of wind as we have no mobility (ghost wolf can be removed


yeesh if you ever wonder why they don't want to listen to forums
10/15/2018 09:38 PMPosted by Cynalessa
10/12/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Uhdon
Give back gust of wind as we have no mobility (ghost wolf can be removed


yeesh if you ever wonder why they don't want to listen to forums


Yeah, Blizzard has specifically said that they want elemental to be a low mobility spec. Stop asking for mobility, it's not going to happen.
10/15/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Magmir
10/15/2018 09:38 PMPosted by Cynalessa
...

yeesh if you ever wonder why they don't want to listen to forums


Yeah, Blizzard has specifically said that they want elemental to be a low mobility spec. Stop asking for mobility, it's not going to happen.


Gave up on gust a while ago, muscle memory from my Legion keybind persists, so I drop tremor totem by accident every once and a while. I jokingly reminisce about the QA where Ion said people would forget about missing abilities. Knowing it's not going to happen doesn't make it any less depressing.

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