List of specs in serious need of help

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This is a list of the specs that are considerably weaker than their alternatives and won't get to see high end content if you don't give them a significant buff. The ones with CRITICAL NEED by them are currently unviable in mythic raiding. This is for raiding.

DPS:
Feral Druid (CRITICAL NEED)
Unholy Death Knight
Marksmanship Hunter
Fire Mage (CRITICAL NEED)
Shadow Priest (CRITICAL NEED)
Elemental and Enhancement Shaman
Demonology and Destruction Warlock (both in CRITICAL NEED)
Fury Warrior

Tanks:
Vengeance Demon Hunter
Protection Warrior

Edit: Specs that had at least some top 20 guild representation were removed from the list. If a hypercompetitive guild is using a spec, it's not considerably weaker if you use it right.
WW needs serious rebalancing. Sure they can do damage, but outside of 2 abilities on a 1.5-2 min cd they do like 8k dps.
09/09/2018 07:05 PMPosted by Yungstorm
WW needs serious rebalancing. Sure they can do damage, but outside of 2 abilities on a 1.5-2 min cd they do like 8k dps.

They just barely avoided a spot on this list.
Blizzard has no idea how to balance tanks. So long as some tanks have massively better self sustain, while some have consistently better mitigation, and others have more utility, there will always be tanks that simply aren't viable for raiding. There will also be tanks that wont be viable in mythic plus. I noticed you put vengeance as a spec that needs help, but they are an excellent mythic plus tank, they have top tier damage, mobility, utility, and magic damage reduction.
09/09/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Antarris
Blizzard has no idea how to balance tanks. So long as some tanks have massively better self sustain, while some have consistently better mitigation, and others have more utility, there will always be tanks that simply aren't viable for raiding. There will also be tanks that wont be viable in mythic plus. I noticed you put vengeance as a spec that needs help, but they are an excellent mythic plus tank, they have top tier damage, mobility, utility, and magic damage reduction.

This is for raiding and not M+. They are OP as hell in M+, but just plain bad in raiding.
I cant speak for the others on the list but shadow has the duel problem of terrible design flaws AND terribly weak damage. We simply want to be competitive until 8.1 when hopefully some design changes come into play.

The problem is, Blizzard seems to completely lack any sort of clue. Its as if they are putting their fingers in their ears and going NANANANANA to ignore any reasonable suggestions. The 20% dot buff coming tuesday is a prime example of this. If blizzard had actually run sims and tested this, they would have realized that its a 3% damage buff, while they are giving a 5-6% buff to the other critical need classes. So the math doesnt check out.

But have they responded to this, or even commented on it? Nope. They have gone about ignoring Spriests as usual, with no forum response, no change, no anything.
09/09/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Toxn
I cant speak for the others on the list but shadow has the duel problem of terrible design flaws AND terribly weak damage. We simply want to be competitive until 8.1 when hopefully some design changes come into play.

The problem is, Blizzard seems to completely lack any sort of clue. Its as if they are putting their fingers in their ears and going NANANANANA to ignore any reasonable suggestions. The 20% dot buff coming tuesday is a prime example of this. If blizzard had actually run sims and tested this, they would have realized that its a 3% damage buff, while they are giving a 5-6% buff to the other critical need classes. So the math doesnt check out.

But have they responded to this, or even commented on it? Nope. They have gone about ignoring Spriests as usual, with no forum response, no change, no anything.

Prot Warriors are in the same boat with Shield Block having terrible uptime, Ignore Pain instantly going away in heroic Uldir and only good for a temp health boost right before big damage, lower hp than most other tanks, non-existent self sustain, and dependence on an azerite trait that doesn't exist on Uldir loot tables. There are a few more with spec mechanics problems on this list I'm sure.
09/09/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Hutta
09/09/2018 07:05 PMPosted by Yungstorm
WW needs serious rebalancing. Sure they can do damage, but outside of 2 abilities on a 1.5-2 min cd they do like 8k dps.

They just barely avoided a spot on this list.


I would honestly do an "honorable mention" spot for specs that narrowly avoided making the list. While not completely uncompetitive, they will likely lose a raid spot to a more viable spec.

WW feels like a shadow of it's former self. While MW is still playable, it just feels so clunky compared to its former glory. Vivify needing two GCD's to be viable, leaving us with one AoE heal on a 12 second CD and a 3 minute CD. While not as dire as some healers (looking at you Hpally, poor b@stards).

Has the GCD fix that no one asked for actually been a good thing for anyone?
Meanwhile frost DK is so bad you probably forgot it existed.

Unholy is kinda okay, middle of the pack - ish. Not amazing, but your mediocre dps can be forgiven if you're good at gripping. And it has mentally good AoE.

Frost on the other hand has nothing to even hope for besides good grips ... and unholy grips are better due to being able to talent into it resetting on kills.
09/10/2018 01:38 AMPosted by Lina
Meanwhile frost DK is so bad you probably forgot it existed.


Sums it up. Fluffy damage that doesn’t actually kill anything and next to no survivability, on top of bare-minimum mobility and zero utility, doesn’t exactly make for a great spec.
@Papachi

MW feels really good to me. I would go as far as to say the playstyle feels unique and the best since monk was first introduced in MoP. I am not talking about numbers...just playstyle.

Vivify needs 2 gcd? You will be casting Renewing mist to avoid cap charges similar to Legion (but 1 charge in legion). BfA Vivify can potentially heals more than 3 people compare to strictly 3 people in Legion.
09/09/2018 07:05 PMPosted by Yungstorm
WW needs serious rebalancing. Sure they can do damage, but outside of 2 abilities on a 1.5-2 min cd they do like 8k dps.


This is basically how ele shaman works.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

Notice the top 4 specs are the ones receiving nerfs, and the bottom 5 are the ones receiving buffs.
I dont forsee the 6% damage increase to help fire. It will likely stay at the bottom due to its poor requirement of high amounts of crit in order to use its abilities.
09/10/2018 05:30 AMPosted by Littlegreen
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

Notice the top 4 specs are the ones receiving nerfs, and the bottom 5 are the ones receiving buffs.


Yes, and unless there's more to the buffs than what information we were given, the numbers aren't enough to change things in a meaningful way. Particularly so because we have Ion saying things like, "no king reigns forever" regarding Affliction to people who want a compelling reason to play Demo or Destro. And here we are, with Demo and Destro on the very bottom of the charts with Fire. And Affliction is sitting pretty on every single fight for warlocks far and away the leader for the entire raid. It should not be this way. The damage needs to be close enough that each of the specs has fights that they shine on in Uldir. 5% doesn't do that. And that's just the specs that I know well. I'm sure people who play the other low performing specs could post a diatribe here about it as well explaining why 5% isn't gonna cut it.
09/10/2018 06:51 AMPosted by Roxxùs
I dont forsee the 6% damage increase to help fire. It will likely stay at the bottom due to its poor requirement of high amounts of crit in order to use its abilities.


Crit is our worst 2ndary stat. Fire mages stacking crit are doing it wrong.
AoE is the big reason Feral is in such a dire position. I know Ion thinks single target should be our specialty but to be honest that just doesn’t work with PvE design in 2018. We need competent AoE in a raid with so many add fights.
09/10/2018 01:45 AMPosted by Raonath
09/10/2018 01:38 AMPosted by Lina
Meanwhile frost DK is so bad you probably forgot it existed.


Sums it up. Fluffy damage that doesn’t actually kill anything and next to no survivability, on top of bare-minimum mobility and zero utility, doesn’t exactly make for a great spec.

Frost is one of the better performing specs right now. It just suffers from gaps in playstyle that become more and more noticeable the lower a player’s haste.
Here are the specs that I believe are in critical need of help from my own experience

Fire Mage
Elemental Shaman
Resto Shaman
Prot Warrior
Demonology Locks
Shadow Priest

Not sure why OP mentions Frost Mages as needing attention. Every raid or Mythic I do, they kill it on the dps meters and in arenas and pvp, they are amazing. I have a frost mage and do very well with him.
09/10/2018 07:48 AMPosted by Ulrok
Here are the specs that I believe are in critical need of help from my own experience

Fire Mage
Elemental Shaman
Resto Shaman
Prot Warrior
Demonology Locks
Shadow Priest

Not sure why OP mentions Frost Mages as needing attention. Every raid or Mythic I do, they kill it on the dps meters and in arenas and pvp, they are amazing. I have a frost mage and do very well with him.

Feral druid needs to be on that list too.

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