locks forum is toxic af

Warlock
09/19/2018 05:55 AMPosted by Xyrath
well guys. imo this is an aff raid only because of the aoe that aff provides vs demo or destro?


Is this bait? Smells like bait.
Im sure it has nothing to do with how awful the class is right now.
09/17/2018 06:11 PMPosted by Voshon
09/17/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Todgins
Even the official wow casters (during the tourny on the WoW twitch) were making memes of how bad warlocks are. Literally people paid by blizzard to entertain people, are calling our class a meme.


Where was this?


Rich Campbell, "Warlock... that's a name I haven't heard in awhile."

Talking before the tournament that what if Warlock just showed up and crushed in the tournament. It didn't. It appeared once I think with Maldiva and he died before dampening kicked in... in a tournament where dampening was going to higher amounts than had ever been seen before.
09/19/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Heckindoggo
09/17/2018 06:11 PMPosted by Voshon
...

Where was this?


Rich Campbell, "Warlock... that's a name I haven't heard in awhile."

Talking before the tournament that what if Warlock just showed up and crushed in the tournament. It didn't. It appeared once I think with Maldiva and he died before dampening kicked in... in a tournament where dampening was going to higher amounts than had ever been seen before.


I cbf to find the clip, but he also at some point drew a warlock on a piece of paper, ripped it up, and called for rerolls while lamenting the fact that no warlocks were left in the tournament.
09/19/2018 05:55 AMPosted by Xyrath
well guys. imo this is an aff raid only because of the aoe that aff provides vs demo or destro?


Afflictions aoe potential isn't better then demo or destructions.

Afflictions aoe days only existed due to how powerful sow seed was, and it being paired with Soul flame.

This is a stupid argument.
09/17/2018 04:57 PMPosted by Xyrath
locks are top dps with aff

Well that one's just a lie. Mages have better parses on most encounters, and Hunters are still right on Warlocks' heels with the easiest dps uptime in the game.

Parsing Warlocks get there largely by not being targeted by mechanics or other people doing mechanics for us while we turret anyway because we're incapable of good performance while doing mechanics ourselves.

Just fix our dps on the move and bring back KJC from MOP (and similar effects like mobile Lightning Bolt, Lunar Shower, etc).
It was the natural evolution of ranged dps design for a reason.
I don't see who thought it was a good idea to force outdated bad design on only some ranged specs in a world where encounter design and mechanics continue to evolve and become more involved and complex.


MOP Warlock is almost unanimously the favorite era for Warlock for a reason, and that reason is KJC and a high ability to PLAY during mechanics.

If Warlocks weren't SO rare and unpopular this expansion, with good reason, I'd be on my Mage or Hunter instead.
09/19/2018 06:47 PMPosted by Chromey
MOP Warlock is almost unanimously the favorite era for Warlock for a reason, and that reason is KJC and a high ability to PLAY during mechanics.


Because Xelnath was the one and only Dev who actually knew what warlocks should of been (we needed soem dmg tuning but mechanically we were good).

We dont want to be OP like we were at end of MoP (we dont need FOTM locks ruining our class) just viable in all specs and fun.

also Mists KJC would need a nerfed form as it WAS too strong in mists.

was also the time destro actually worked as a proper niche...

every xpac since is Havoc nerfed whiel pushing us further to 2 target niche to do well and shafted in ST or AoE.
09/19/2018 06:47 PMPosted by Chromey
Well that one's just a lie. Mages have better parses on most encounters, and Hunters are still right on Warlocks' heels with the easiest dps uptime in the game.

Parsing Warlocks get there largely by not being targeted by mechanics or other people doing mechanics for us while we turret anyway because we're incapable of good performance while doing mechanics ourselves.


Meanwhile 9 warlocks in the 2 mythic G'huun kills thus far as opposed to two mages?

IF what you said was true, warlock representation across the raid for the current top cutting edge guilds wouldn't be as high as it is across all bosses. Limit legit ran 3-5 warlocks on almost every single prog kill.

edit: Limit ran 2-5 warlocks through their prog sprint to 8/8,
locks are absolute crap in pvp and only one spec is good in pve... Ya !@#$ is going to be toxic lol to recommend this class to anyone right now is just wrong.
Affliction is reasonable.

But its only top dps until a BM hunter shows up.

That said I'm not unhappy with affliction. I'd rather be playing demo though, and I'm hopeful the latest round of fixes helps demo out.

- P
grow a pair and stop calling everything that hurts your feelings online "toxic"
09/19/2018 04:11 PMPosted by Ripflow
09/19/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Heckindoggo
...

Rich Campbell, "Warlock... that's a name I haven't heard in awhile."

Talking before the tournament that what if Warlock just showed up and crushed in the tournament. It didn't. It appeared once I think with Maldiva and he died before dampening kicked in... in a tournament where dampening was going to higher amounts than had ever been seen before.


I cbf to find the clip, but he also at some point drew a warlock on a piece of paper, ripped it up, and called for rerolls while lamenting the fact that no warlocks were left in the tournament.


https://clips.twitch.tv/DeafHeartlessMallardKippa
09/18/2018 03:56 PMPosted by Ripflow
If our class was good, the class forum would be normal. Go check the paladin forum or something, that class is always decent and unmistakably has a lot more effort and care put into their design and balancing.


My friends always ask me why I have such a hate-on for the hybrid classes (primarily paladins, monks, and druids).

It's because of this. When you have multiple roles, the devs take extra care to make sure you are competitive in at least one spec of each role. Paladins, Monks, and Druids are, what I call, "Super Hybrids". They have access to all three roles, which means that almost all of their specs (barring druid dps specs) must be polished.

It's why warlocks continually suffer this BS and are only ever allowed to be "good" every once in a blue moon. Meanwhile, paladins are never, ever allowed to be bad at anything.

The main problem is available development man-hours. At some point, the dev team needs to triage because they run out of time. When they have plenty of time, they work on "high priority" items like classes who will be left out of an entire role if one of their specs don't work (see: paladins and monks, also demon hunters).

Then come dual-role classes like warriors, shamans, priests, etc (though the dev team seems to have even slipped up there this expansion with both shaman dps specs AND shadow priests being near the bottom of the pile for DPS).

The pure DPS classes come last because all they need is one spec out of three to be "workable" and we are technically "complete", which is a metric they're likely to get by simple chance without too much effort on the first or second try.

My friends wonder why I hate paladins, druids, and monks. It's because, in all likelyhood, those three classes eat up somewhere around 40-50% of the class development budget (closer to 50-65% if you add in demon hunters since they suffer from the same problem).

09/18/2018 03:56 PMPosted by Ripflow
Or like rogue or something, they're always good at everything.


Rogues are very, very straightforward, all three specs work very identically, and traditionally a relatively large amount of their damage comes from white hits because of their high attack speed weapons and energy gating mechanics. They're a lot like mages that way, difference being that arcane spec works nothing like fire or frost, and mages deal zero white damage which, while making them straightforward, makes them more inconsistent than Rogues at a very basic level (they're more prone to breaking if one spell's scaling gets out of wack for some reason).

Though, it's more than a bit lucky that all three rogue specs are competitive right now, it's still just luck. They're usually down here with the rest of the pures dealing with one spec that works and two that are broken and relatively useless.
09/20/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Nakkiel
Meanwhile 9 warlocks in the 2 mythic G'huun kills thus far as opposed to two mages?


They stacked Warlocks for Demonic Gateway. Not performance, not versatility, certainly not because it's what the players enjoy playing the most. Stacked Demonic Gateways effectively counters a major boss mechanic, so that's what you do if you're in the World First race and are doing it while massively undergeared compared to 99.99% of other mythic raiders who'll kill that boss.

Down here where people play what they enjoy, I'm not enjoying any of the three Warlock specs. It feels bad to be weak, it feels bad to be completely inept at common tasks like AoE or target swapping, it feels bad to have a rotation you dislike and no talents to let you significantly customize. Afflic may have the numbers, but I hate the rotation being about micro-management of short DoTs and I hate everything about Deathbolt.

So yeah, the Warlock forum is more toxic than usual. There's a lot to be toxic about. Low performance, bad talent design, frustrating boss encounters demanding constant movement when you have zero tools to handle it, even less substantive things like the still missing casting animation update. For once I'm totally on board with the salt.
09/20/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Nakkiel
Meanwhile 9 warlocks in the 2 mythic G'huun kills thus far as opposed to two mages?

Need a minimum of 2 for the gateways for the orb runners. It is entirely likely that, in order to reduce the count of wipes caused by 1 Warlock dying and their gate despawning pretty much instantly wiping that pull... that the groups took 4, with 2 for each side.
And Mages don't outperform Warlocks SO much as to overwrite the merits of having better pulls even with the occasional stray death. At least that's my theory. I don't just look at a raid comp and jump to some silly conclusion.

It's because of this. When you have multiple roles, the devs take extra care to make sure you are competitive in at least one spec of each role.

Not if you're an Ele Shaman! LOL
I can complain about things relating to Warlock all I want, but it's nothing compared to how badly Ele Shaman has been treated constantly.
If you want to know the misery of being the devs' personal kicking puppy, try maining Ele Shaman. MOP was literally the only good era the spec had, and MOP was the best and most fun design for most specs in the game.

The pure DPS classes come last because all they need is one spec out of three to be "workable" and we are technically "complete"

Nah, if you're a Mage, you rarely get less than 2 very high performing specs. There's definitely a big preference there.
It feels like Warlock and maybe Rogue are the only pure-dps classes which get the "1 and done" treatment, especially since they're trying SO hard to force their melee hunter spec that no one asked for.
Don't see Warriors getting a spec pruning and overhaul just because they can equip Daggers and Crossbows, melee survival Hunter is silly and unwelcome in a game that already has too many melee dps specs.

09/20/2018 01:41 PMPosted by Ilkoland
They stacked Warlocks for Demonic Gateway. Not performance, not versatility, certainly not because it's what the players enjoy playing the most. Stacked Demonic Gateways effectively counters a major boss mechanic

Bingo.
And no one's even saying Affliction is parsing badly right now, but we are saying it sucks losing so much activity when moving, and that Demo and Destro are grossly undertuned on top of suffering even MORE from raid mechanics existing.

The Warlock community has way too many folks willing to just look at a parse, claim everything's fine, and foolishly not ask for things they need for the class to be better designed in modern times.
MOP and KJC, mobile Lightning Bolt too, were the best things to happen to half the ranged caster specs in this game, and everyone LOVED them. People like having ACTIVE participation in fights while doing mechanics, which is why there's so many Hunters and Mages.
Stop forcing this outdated immobile turret garbage on people.
The trend lately has been to nerf Affliction due to players being sick of their Legion dominance, despite the fact that they are the only caster even able to compete with the BfA melee train right now, and also despite the fact that our spec plays like complete garbage. I do not enjoy my Affliction lock but I tend to be very competitive, so Demo and Destro are out, PvP is out, and I am damn sure not going through the war campaign and reputation slog over again on another character.

And I agree with everything the poster mentioned above except their feelings on Survival. Yeah we don't need more melee in this game, and yeah Legion Survival was not fleshed out well and a glaringly obvious experiment, but it is a fun spec to play. It's entirely subjective, but a bit dismissive to say "nobody" wanted it.
09/20/2018 03:13 PMPosted by Chromey
And no one's even saying Affliction is parsing badly right now, but we are saying it sucks losing so much activity when moving, and that Demo and Destro are grossly undertuned on top of suffering even MORE from raid mechanics existing.


Afflic parses badly for me. It requires careful micro-managing of UA uptime for optimal results, and as raid leader I can't tunnel vision on my own rotation like that. I have to devote a good fraction of my attention to watch timers and call reminders and deal with other people's mistakes. With a precision intensive spec like BfA-Afflic that means my own DPS performance goes down sharply.

Given a choice, I'd prefer to use a spec with less punishing drop offs if you have to divert your attention and put your hands on auto-pilot for a few seconds. And that is in fact the choice I've been making since I became raid leader. All those "pool then dump" specs like Legion-Afflic and Mists-Destro? They work amazingly for me. I can trigger the dump phases when I know I can focus my attention on my own rotation and delay then for minimal loss when I have to deal with making raid calls.

Only in BfA, well, you've only got one choice as a Warlock. Only it's a choice that's impossible for me to use. Which is why I shocked my guild by switching to my DH alt for raids, the first time I'm not bringing my Warlock in ten years of raiding. And yes, I'm not happy about it.
All three specs are lacking but to claim affliction isn’t parsing high in Uldir across all levels and controlling ilvl is delusional. And it certainly doesn’t help to solve our problems.
Affliction is the best raiding caster without contest, WCL is there to back this claim.
09/17/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Revlol
Why would I recommend a class to somebody if they are instantly locked to a single spec in almost all forms of available content to be competitive?

I wouldn't.

People who are saying "yeah come play a lock they are great", are really just saying, "yeah come play affliction".

However the "toxic" posts describing the flaws in the class, are what will assist in our problems being fixed, which is absolutely needed.


You sir, nailed it.
Not if you're an Ele Shaman! LOL
I can complain about things relating to Warlock all I want, but it's nothing compared to how badly Ele Shaman has been treated constantly.
If you want to know the misery of being the devs' personal kicking puppy, try maining Ele Shaman. MOP was literally the only good era the spec had, and MOP was the best and most fun design for most specs in the game.


Shamans have 2 dps specs and enh isn't doing that badly.

I believe I covered that.

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