Old Talent Tree vs Azerite Gear

General Discussion
Which do you prefer?

Azerite gear seemed like it would be cool but now feels like a big mess. I'd prefer the old talent tree, even if some of the traits from azerite gear were in them.

Cookie cutter will always be a thing. There's no way around that. Might as well let us choose where we want the power to go. Juggling gear around is clunky.

I think that's why the class specific weaps were well received at the start of Legion.

Let's discuss.
The two systems aren't comparable. A better off comparison would be the relic system (with netherlight implemented) and azerite gear.
AA (Alternate Advancement) points like EQ. You can divert X% of your experience to AA after a certain level, and when you hit max level, it all goes towards AA. You store up or spend the AA points. Some things cost 1 point, like "Innate Intelligence" or upwards of 10 points for some abilities.

These are the "general" AAs. These aren't including the class-specific ones.

Num. Name Rks AAs Lvl Cate A Class(es)
49 Alchemy Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P Shm
325 Baking Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
497 Bandage Wounds 05 03 066 DoD P All but War
582 Battle Ready 04 05 051 TSS P All
324 Blacksmithing Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
326 Brewing Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
34 Combat Agility 45 02 055 SoL P All
579 Combat Medic 05 03 071 TSS P All but Ber War
33 Combat Stability 43 02 055 SoL P All
335 Delay Death 35 03 066 OoW P All
333 Discordant Defiance 20 05 066 OoW P All
8381 Dreamlike Cunning 10 03 085 HoT P All
8361 Dreamlike Fortitude 10 03 085 HoT P All
8421 Dreamlike Intellect 10 03 085 HoT P All
8411 Dreamlike Magnetism 10 03 085 HoT P All
337 Dreamlike Might 10 03 085 HoT P All
8391 Dreamlike Sapience 10 03 085 HoT P All
8371 Dreamlike Swiftness 10 03 085 HoT P All
378 Earthen Alacrity 05 05 081 Uf P All
382 Earthen Allure 05 05 081 Uf P All
379 Earthen Artistry 05 05 081 Uf P All
336 Earthen Brawn 05 05 081 Uf P All
381 Earthen Brilliance 05 05 081 Uf P All
380 Earthen Sagacity 05 05 081 Uf P All
377 Earthen Stability 05 05 081 Uf P All
783 Energetic Attunement 15 05 071 TSS P All
938 Eyes Wide Open 05 05 051 HoT P All
17 First Aid 03 01 051 SoL P All
327 Fletching Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
5005 Foraging 01 03 059 Race P All
3801 General Sturdiness 25 06 076 SoF P All
3829 Hastened Origin 06 03 068 SoF P All
3 Innate Agility 15 01 051 SoL P All
7 Innate Charisma 15 01 051 SoL P All
9 Innate Cold Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
795 Innate Corruption Protection 05 03 065 HoT P All
4 Innate Dexterity 15 01 051 SoL P All
12 Innate Disease Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
8 Innate Fire Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
5 Innate Intelligence 15 01 051 SoL P All
16 Innate Lung Capacity 06 01 051 SoL P All
10 Innate Magic Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
15 Innate Metabolism 03 01 051 SoL P All
11 Innate Poison Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
225 Innate Regeneration 35 01 051 SoL P All
13 Innate Run Speed 05 01 051 SoL P All
322 Innate See Invis 01 09 070 DoD P All
2 Innate Stamina 15 01 051 SoL P All
1 Innate Strength 15 01 051 SoL P All
6 Innate Wisdom 15 01 051 SoL P All
56 Jewel Craft Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P Enc
576 Jewel Craft Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All but Enc
1216 Mental Fortitude 03 05 075 SoD P All
334 Mystical Attuning 12 05 051 OoW P All
1115 Mystical Shield 01 09 085 Uf P All
28 Natural Durability 06 02 055 SoL P All
141 New Tanaan Crafting Mastery 06 03 051 Trad P All
331 Origin 01 00 005 EQ A All
233 Packrat 11 03 061 GoD P All
1166 Phantasmic Allure 00 05 096 RoF P All
1164 Phantasmic Poise 00 05 096 RoF P All
1160 Phantasmic Power 00 05 096 RoF P All
1165 Phantasmic Precocity 00 05 096 RoF P All
1163 Phantasmic Proficiency 00 05 096 RoF P All
1162 Phantasmic Promptitude 00 05 096 RoF P All
1161 Phantasmic Prowess 00 05 096 RoF P All
142 Planar Power 20 02 061 PoP P All
103 Poison Mastery 04 03 059 Trad P Rog
328 Pottery Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
581 Quick Draw 02 05 051 TSS P All
330 Salvage 06 05 060 Trad P All
329 Tailoring Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
575 Tinkering Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P Clr Enc Mag Nec Pal Rog Shd War Wiz
1229 Veiled Acumen 10 05 091 VoA P All
1231 Veiled Allure 10 05 091 VoA P All
1230 Veiled Brilliance 10 05 091 VoA P All
1228 Veiled Cunning 10 05 091 VoA P All
1226 Veiled Fortitude 10 05 091 VoA P All
1227 Veiled Rapidity 10 05 091 VoA P All
1225 Veiled Strength 10 05 091 VoA P All
The old talent system was awfully bloated with over half of the talents just being filler.

New level! New talent point! OOOH BABY +1% to damage against humanoids and giantkin?! HELL YEA ONE POINT. Zzzz
09/25/2018 09:42 AMPosted by Marakurta
The two systems aren't comparable. A better off comparison would be the relic system (with netherlight implemented) and azerite gear.


I would take the relic system in a heart beat. I wouldnt even think about it further then to slap that on! Azerite is still terrible and I dont think just buffing/nerfing traits will fix it. The best I think they can do is get it to a point where you dont have to re-gear every time they change tallents or make it to where you dont have to sim every new piece of gear to see if its an actual upgrade regardless of level.
09/25/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Himmelfahrt
AA (Alternate Advancement) points like EQ. You can divert X% of your experience to AA after a certain level, and when you hit max level, it all goes towards AA. You store up or spend the AA points. Some things cost 1 point, like "Innate Intelligence" or upwards of 10 points for some abilities.

These are the "general" AAs. These aren't including the class-specific ones.

Num. Name Rks AAs Lvl Cate A Class(es)
49 Alchemy Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P Shm
325 Baking Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
497 Bandage Wounds 05 03 066 DoD P All but War
582 Battle Ready 04 05 051 TSS P All
324 Blacksmithing Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
326 Brewing Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
34 Combat Agility 45 02 055 SoL P All
579 Combat Medic 05 03 071 TSS P All but Ber War
33 Combat Stability 43 02 055 SoL P All
335 Delay Death 35 03 066 OoW P All
333 Discordant Defiance 20 05 066 OoW P All
8381 Dreamlike Cunning 10 03 085 HoT P All
8361 Dreamlike Fortitude 10 03 085 HoT P All
8421 Dreamlike Intellect 10 03 085 HoT P All
8411 Dreamlike Magnetism 10 03 085 HoT P All
337 Dreamlike Might 10 03 085 HoT P All
8391 Dreamlike Sapience 10 03 085 HoT P All
8371 Dreamlike Swiftness 10 03 085 HoT P All
378 Earthen Alacrity 05 05 081 Uf P All
382 Earthen Allure 05 05 081 Uf P All
379 Earthen Artistry 05 05 081 Uf P All
336 Earthen Brawn 05 05 081 Uf P All
381 Earthen Brilliance 05 05 081 Uf P All
380 Earthen Sagacity 05 05 081 Uf P All
377 Earthen Stability 05 05 081 Uf P All
783 Energetic Attunement 15 05 071 TSS P All
938 Eyes Wide Open 05 05 051 HoT P All
17 First Aid 03 01 051 SoL P All
327 Fletching Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
5005 Foraging 01 03 059 Race P All
3801 General Sturdiness 25 06 076 SoF P All
3829 Hastened Origin 06 03 068 SoF P All
3 Innate Agility 15 01 051 SoL P All
7 Innate Charisma 15 01 051 SoL P All
9 Innate Cold Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
795 Innate Corruption Protection 05 03 065 HoT P All
4 Innate Dexterity 15 01 051 SoL P All
12 Innate Disease Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
8 Innate Fire Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
5 Innate Intelligence 15 01 051 SoL P All
16 Innate Lung Capacity 06 01 051 SoL P All
10 Innate Magic Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
15 Innate Metabolism 03 01 051 SoL P All
11 Innate Poison Protection 15 01 051 SoL P All
225 Innate Regeneration 35 01 051 SoL P All
13 Innate Run Speed 05 01 051 SoL P All
322 Innate See Invis 01 09 070 DoD P All
2 Innate Stamina 15 01 051 SoL P All
1 Innate Strength 15 01 051 SoL P All
6 Innate Wisdom 15 01 051 SoL P All
56 Jewel Craft Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P Enc
576 Jewel Craft Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All but Enc
1216 Mental Fortitude 03 05 075 SoD P All
334 Mystical Attuning 12 05 051 OoW P All
1115 Mystical Shield 01 09 085 Uf P All
28 Natural Durability 06 02 055 SoL P All
141 New Tanaan Crafting Mastery 06 03 051 Trad P All
331 Origin 01 00 005 EQ A All
233 Packrat 11 03 061 GoD P All
1166 Phantasmic Allure 00 05 096 RoF P All
1164 Phantasmic Poise 00 05 096 RoF P All
1160 Phantasmic Power 00 05 096 RoF P All
1165 Phantasmic Precocity 00 05 096 RoF P All
1163 Phantasmic Proficiency 00 05 096 RoF P All
1162 Phantasmic Promptitude 00 05 096 RoF P All
1161 Phantasmic Prowess 00 05 096 RoF P All
142 Planar Power 20 02 061 PoP P All
103 Poison Mastery 04 03 059 Trad P Rog
328 Pottery Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
581 Quick Draw 02 05 051 TSS P All
330 Salvage 06 05 060 Trad P All
329 Tailoring Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P All
575 Tinkering Mastery 03 03 059 Trad P Clr Enc Mag Nec Pal Rog Shd War Wiz
1229 Veiled Acumen 10 05 091 VoA P All
1231 Veiled Allure 10 05 091 VoA P All
1230 Veiled Brilliance 10 05 091 VoA P All
1228 Veiled Cunning 10 05 091 VoA P All
1226 Veiled Fortitude 10 05 091 VoA P All
1227 Veiled Rapidity 10 05 091 VoA P All
1225 Veiled Strength 10 05 091 VoA P All

Do you honestly expect anyone to sift through this gibberish? I thought your sub was out why don’t you do us all a favor and get off the forums.
The old talent system was majority passives with like 3-4 actual talents. It was not fun and it was not creative. Anyone who raided or pvped used the same cookie cutter builds. Just want to get that out there before all the nostalgia for the old trees comes in.
Talents were inherent to your character, I would vastly take old talents over something tied to gear, especially gear locked behind a weekly loot lockout and insane forced RNG
09/25/2018 09:47 AMPosted by Paladonkey
Do you honestly expect anyone to sift through this gibberish? I thought your sub was out why don’t you do us all a favor and get off the forums.


I couldn't find a list that wasn't full of this gibberish. Also, I'm paid up for a few more hours. I can post all I want Mr. Poopypants.
09/25/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Zaraela
The old talent system was majority passives with like 3-4 actual talents. It was not fun and it was not creative. Anyone who raided or pvped used the same cookie cutter builds. Just want to get that out there before all the nostalgia for the old trees comes in.


Though true, realize that at least you knew whether gear was an upgrade then, came in other levels other then 15 ilvl blocks, and gear did not RNG your talent tree.
09/25/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Himmelfahrt
09/25/2018 09:47 AMPosted by Paladonkey
Do you honestly expect anyone to sift through this gibberish? I thought your sub was out why don’t you do us all a favor and get off the forums.


I couldn't find a list that wasn't full of this gibberish. Also, I'm paid up for a few more hours. I can post all I want Mr. Poopypants.

You post the most uninformed things on every forum you enter. The forums will be a better place after those hours are up.
09/25/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Beardhat
Talents were inherent to your character, I would vastly take old talents over something tied to gear, especially gear locked behind a weekly loot lockout and insane forced RNG


Agreed, old talent trees, not the nerfed pruned little trees but the original. While they are at it, unprun the abilities and stop taking original baseline and using those as new talent. /rant

:)
09/25/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Paladonkey
You post the most uninformed things on every forum you enter. The forums will be a better place after those hours are up.


So will my life, since people like you won't be in it.
Azerite has the potential to allow for more variety and choices, primarily just needs balancing as well as the introduction of more gameplay affecting traits which we should be seeing in upcoming patches.

I started right at the end of Wrath, hitting max level within the first week or two of Cata. I set my talent trees once and never had to touch them again because changing anything would make me weaker.
09/25/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Zaraela
The old talent system was majority passives with like 3-4 actual talents. It was not fun and it was not creative. Anyone who raided or pvped used the same cookie cutter builds. Just want to get that out there before all the nostalgia for the old trees comes in.


Nothing about the new system is better. I'd take the old system anyday. At least I got something while leveling and could see where my character progression stood. Now all we get is gear progression. Nothing really stays inherent to our character.
09/25/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Revaks
The old talent system was awfully bloated with over half of the talents just being filler.

New level! New talent point! OOOH BABY +1% to damage against humanoids and giantkin?! HELL YEA ONE POINT. Zzzz


I agree they talents were awful but that can be changed by simply replacing them with better talents.
09/25/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Zaraela
The old talent system was majority passives with like 3-4 actual talents. It was not fun and it was not creative. Anyone who raided or pvped used the same cookie cutter builds. Just want to get that out there before all the nostalgia for the old trees comes in.


I haven't looked, but I'm going to bet that there is hardly any diversity in azerite "builds". Azerite just makes BiS even more BiS in the majority of cases.
09/25/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Zaraela
The old talent system was majority passives with like 3-4 actual talents. It was not fun and it was not creative. Anyone who raided or pvped used the same cookie cutter builds. Just want to get that out there before all the nostalgia for the old trees comes in.


The talents were not very fun but that can be changed. If they gave you options or treated it like the artifact so that you could decide which direction to go to first, it would play much better. Just an opinion piece. I don't expect everyone to agree.
09/25/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Revaks
The old talent system was awfully bloated with over half of the talents just being filler.

New level! New talent point! OOOH BABY +1% to damage against humanoids and giantkin?! HELL YEA ONE POINT. Zzzz


which is absolutely superior in every facet to the hot mess that is both the talent treess now which are only good at max level and the azurite traits are seriously meh at least with the old talent trees you can feel like you were indeed getting stronger.

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