A question for Horde players

Wyrmrest Accord


Someone he loved was murdered and their body desecrated by the Alli just as a way to get to him, and another was badly injured as a result of trying to help. It was the tipping point of a long internal struggle of misplaced guilt, blame and self-hatred.

The one responsible had escaped and was still at large, and so he went on a years-long quest for vengeance to hunt him down, found him, and though he tried to justify what happened in the aftermath, he was forced to admit it had been for revenge all along. Then he just stayed away, hoping that doing so was the best way to protect the ones he loved, and hating himself.

So for years he has holed up, watching and listening as every new version of the Horde only continues to stay further from the path of the one he left behind. Then with the news of Teldrassil, he has resigned that there can never be peace again, that is either his people or the enemy, and him staying away hasn't protected anyone. It was cowardice.

So he has returned. All he is good at in his eyes is killing, and though he wishes things were different, they are not. And the best way to keep his people safe is by ensuring they are the only ones left. And if that means following Sylvanas' orders- despite how atrocious they may be- he is willing to sacrifice his own soul if it means that others may survive.

In his eyes, he was damned a long time ago.

(Cliff notes version I guess. I needed an IC reason why I had to take a long absence from the game and it fits for me.)


I like it. Actually is pretty similar to the reasons for my DK here continuing on.
09/19/2018 09:38 PMPosted by Runeash


Someone he loved was murdered and their body desecrated by the Alli just as a way to get to him, and another was badly injured as a result of trying to help. It was the tipping point of a long internal struggle of misplaced guilt, blame and self-hatred.

The one responsible had escaped and was still at large, and so he went on a years-long quest for vengeance to hunt him down, found him, and though he tried to justify what happened in the aftermath, he was forced to admit it had been for revenge all along. Then he just stayed away, hoping that doing so was the best way to protect the ones he loved, and hating himself.

So for years he has holed up, watching and listening as every new version of the Horde only continues to stay further from the path of the one he left behind. Then with the news of Teldrassil, he has resigned that there can never be peace again, that is either his people or the enemy, and him staying away hasn't protected anyone. It was cowardice.

So he has returned. All he is good at in his eyes is killing, and though he wishes things were different, they are not. And the best way to keep his people safe is by ensuring they are the only ones left. And if that means following Sylvanas' orders- despite how atrocious they may be- he is willing to sacrifice his own soul if it means that others may survive.

In his eyes, he was damned a long time ago.

(Cliff notes version I guess. I needed an IC reason why I had to take a long absence from the game and it fits for me.)


I like it. Actually is pretty similar to the reasons for my DK here continuing on.


I imagine many people have to make similar stories to justify how their toon can still be a part of the Horde when the writers keep trying to force us to be evil.

I do understand where Alli are coming from about getting the shaft on a lot of things. But I wish many of them could understand how it feels to slowly watch over the course of a decade as something you love and believed in gets warped and twisted into something else. No one has won and most of us don't enjoy having it shoved down our throat by other players because we are already being forced to swallow it from the devs anyway.

Like, you aren't telling us anything new. We are well aware of what's going on because it is OUR characters being directly affected.

It is like going up to a Star Wars fan during the prequel years and constantly shoving in their face how much the new movies suck. As if they didn't know and were not already pretty upset about it. It only serves to make the people pointing it out feel good about being right, regardless of how much doing so is hurtful to the ones who have been invested from the start. And again, it isn't anything we don't ALREADY KNOW, or ANYTHING WE AS PLAYERS CAN DO ABOUT IT.

I'll be honest- I am still not entirely sold on my own story, because it is really hard to try and shoehorn in all the things the lore has changed with something many of us have spent years and years developing in a natural way. But then Blizz does something to the story and we are forced to find a way to make it work. It's really hard to justify a lot of the time but what the hell else are we supposed to do? Roll an Alli? Completely alter our toons' personalities? Just drop it all and play a different game? I am almost jealous of the Alli because while they have legitimate concerns, at least the Alliance and what it stood for has relatively stayed the same. I've been in so many different Hordes now, yoyoing from good to "evil" to good to "evil again apparently" and inevitably back to a different kind of good again. It is exhausting and really difficult to stay consistent. Not to mention, that's just the Horde! What they've done to ORCS makes my head explode.

No one has won. All we can do as players is stay true to ourselves and ride it out. I imagine many citizens of RL countries can hate what their government is doing but still love their country, while trying as individuals to be good people. This doesn't seem that different.
Valannah only left Suramar afterwards and heard about the carnage when spending time in Silvermoon to learn more about the surrounding areas and what events of note have happened to cause the horde into seeking the Nightborne as allies.
During her short time in the horde she already feels as if her people traded one monster for another. She already doesn’t trust the Warchief but isn’t about to start anything to harm her people’s new relationship with the horde.

But never the less she finds it hard to agree with the hordes actions after the alliance also helped to free her home from the legion.
"I would feel a little worse about it, if not for the fact that on my one trip to Teldrassil, when asked to sample their finest meats and cheese, I was lectured by a vegan druid.

Broad strokes, but... well, let's just say I have no taste for pita bread."
Rillumas was indeed there, he has oaths pledged to the Horde and no intentions to break them despite personal feelings. He understands and agrees on the necessity of war and was all for the War of Thorns, but never knew nor expected the burning. He fought for a strategic hold-point, not to burn countless innocents.

So, while his involvement in the war itself has not a drop of regret, his only regret is not having the foresight of the burning itself. So, while he does not agree with Sylvanas' actions during tWoT he will never abandon the Horde. His oaths are to serve the Horde and its people and with the Alliance being rallied into a feeding frenzy, rightfully so even in his eyes, he would never dream of defecting. Abandoning the Horde now is abandoning the citizens who had no place nor choice in the burning to be slaughtered themselves - to Rillumas that is just cowardice.

"The traitor shall receive death swifter than any enemy."
Yes- and he enjoyed every aspect of it. From butchering Kaldorei without discrimination- to the Burning of Teldrassil.
Two of mine were, both on opposite sides of the spectrum.

Dakama here was screaming like a madman with joy watching the tree burn, singing praises in Zandali and dancing with the Shatterspear present during the battle, his body awash with gore and the ripped off heads, ears and tongues of the sentinels he had killed. To him, this was vengeance against the people that laid his kind low, thousands of years in the making.

My half-ogre, Skorest, who is ironically in Karanga's tribe, was present during the Battle for Darkshore alongside the other Horde-oriented members of the tribe. He just kind of watched in silent horror as the tree burned, having PTSD flashbacks of witnessing the Siege of Shattrath during the moment, before he turned and lumbered off into the forest.
No blight involved, therefore he was not there :(
09/19/2018 09:45 PMPosted by Borgg
No one has won. All we can do as players is stay true to ourselves and ride it out. I imagine many citizens of RL countries can hate what their government is doing but still love their country, while trying as individuals to be good people. This doesn't seem that different.
Agreed.
09/19/2018 09:45 PMPosted by Borgg
I am almost jealous of the Alli because while they have legitimate concerns, at least the Alliance and what it stood for has relatively stayed the same.

Alliance players claiming the moral high ground is often based on a superficial examination of the world events. From my POV the Alliance players only have an easier time of it because it's simple to blame Garrosh (and thus the Horde) for what happened in MoP and not look at the Alliance being equally involved in an imperial land-grab that led to all-out war.

Same goes for 100% blaming Sylvanas for Lordaeron while ignoring that their invasion triggered her actions. Making refugees of the civilian population and devastating a large region are the result of Alliance actions as much as Horde. It's not just Forsaken who lost their homes. All those other races would have been imprisoned or expelled after a successful conquest by the Alliance regardless of Sylvanas' actions. There's also the question of sending a team into Horde territory to capture an emissary then imprison them. Sounds a lot like extraordinary rendition and violation of international standards for diplomatic immunity to me.

Colonialism, coercion of civilian populations by military force, specific targeting and destruction of cities, violation of diplomatic immunity involving kidnap and unlawful detention - there are probably a lot more actions that could be added to the list of Alliance war crimes. A lot of players won't like putting that label on what the Alliance has done. The victors try the defeated goes the saying. The Alliance aren't victors yet, so they don't get the final say so on whether or not they've done anything wrong.

It's important to remember that one definition of evil intent is to be absolutely convinced what you are doing is for the greater good and doing so without much regard for the effect on other individuals. From that POV Horde players actually have an easier time of it. We get to be involved in saying "NO!" It's a lot more straight forward to get a new Warchief than to get rid of a corrupt and self-serving dynasty.
I am glad to finally see a Warchief with the guts to do what is necessary to win. Too long have the Horde leadership appeased the weak willed among our ranks so as to not offend their sensibilities. We have suffered because of these weak-minded fools. The Banshee Queen is our savior and not only has the vision to see the Horde in their rightful spot of glory, but also the will to do what is needed to meet those ends.

Those without the stomach for such military operations should return to the fields or their mothers' skirt strings.

Our Queen shall lead us to victory! For the Horde!
09/20/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Cylas
I am glad to finally see a Warchief with the guts to do what is necessary to win.

such as endangering the entire faction by lashing out at the Alliance, wiping out a lot of people, attempting to kill one of the people's heroes/leaders, and then burning down their capital all because you think 'the boy king' is going to do the same thing you did

i'm saying Sylvanas has some cajones but the writing's wild
Well, if it helps her case in the debate on turning on your brothers in arm, my Horde panda didn't turn around and start attacking those she'd been fighting beside. She slipped away, threw her Horde colors into the sea, and managed to slip in with a group of Alliance helping to rescue civilians at the tree. She then made her way to Pandaria to consider her options and finally to Stormwind. Advantages of being a race that is split between the sides, though Wrynn knows of her story and is having her watched. He thinks she doesn't know. She thinks that fact is adorable. XD
Indifferent. She doesn’t care about either faction and pretends to have a low level of empathy.
09/19/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Darayavaus
Was your character at the burning of darnassus?


Sarestha was there, and active in the campaign.

Her reaction was mixed. She was surprised, and even briefly horrified at the apparently-sudden massacre of Teldrassil. But she sees Sylvanas as a messiah of free-willed Lordaeronians... so she quickly justified it in her head. "Obviously it would have cost Horde lives and resources to maintain a difficult occupation. The Alliance may still have snuck insurgents in via old portals. Sylvanas merely made a tough decision for the Greater Good..... and safeguarded every Horde child's future in Kalimdor, without wasting troops in a long occupation of hostile territory."

She then went on to celebrate in Orgrimmar, and encourage others to do the same.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/zPOErRpLtHWbm/giphy.gif

not posting on my horde pally because his mog is ugly as sin, but he's... haunted, to say the least.

was present at the burning of teldrassil, and the prior ashenvale shenanigans. he pushed through the atrocities at ashenvale because he figured it had to be for the greater good, right? sometimes you have to do bad things in the present to preserve a good future. being a [former] blood knight, he was used to doing morally-dubious things for the betterment of his people

when it came to actually burning teldrassil is when he finally cracked. there's a fine line between 'doing questionable things for the greater good' and straight up genocide. it reminded him too much of arthas' invasion of quel'thalas, and sylvanas licherally raising the corpses of her fallen soldiers at lordaeron just hammered the nail in

he's pretty staunchly neutral if not lowkey alliance-leaning now. he keeps up the pretense of a compliant horde soldier for his own safety, but he's kinda burning inside every time he overhears anyone talk about the horde's 'glory'

it shook with his 'doing bad things for the greater good' stance, too. the thought of getting so caught up in trying to preserve the future he becomes like sylvanas is absolutely terrifying to him
Only one of my characters were there, my blood elf hunter.

She was absolutely disgusted and horrified, and left as soon as possible. She is already prepared to take down Sylvanas. She thinks that Sylvanas had no right to kill that many innocents, no matter how Slyvanas tries to justify the burning.
Cailias wasn't there, but he commissioned a painting of the burnt husk of the tree, smoke and all.

He hung it in his office, and enchanted some candles to frame the painting to simulate the fires.

It's more of a memorial to the event that's going to make him filthy rich off of wartime profiteering than anything else.
09/20/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Kunboket
Alliance players claiming the moral high ground is often based on a superficial examination of the world events. From my POV the Alliance players only have an easier time of it because it's simple to blame Garrosh (and thus the Horde) for what happened in MoP and not look at the Alliance being equally involved in an imperial land-grab that led to all-out war.
It doesn't help either that Alliance aggression frequently gets rewritten or entirely retconned to make the Horde the aggressors (or at the very least, skew perception that the Alliance wasn't at fault). They did it with the Azerite stuff in Silithus in the novel iirc and even bothered to retcon the goblin starting story. Heck, Greymane flat out ignores his King's orders to try and murder the new Warchief for really no reason other than Angery Furry.

If you lay out the total Alliance atrocities + atrocities commited by the races that make up the Alliance as well as Horde attrocities/Horde race attrocities, both sides have actually done a whole !@#$ton of really terrible stuff, both to Azeroth/Draenor and one another directly, for decades (centuries in some races' cases). The game just doesn't always portray all that story well (understandably), so if you aren't acquainted with all of it, it's very easy to say "this is the SINGLE WORST THING ANYONE HAS EVER DONE" to something like Teldrassil.

TLDR Both factions are actually really %^-*in horrible colonizers tbqh, we are all the villains of this story and Tortollans are the only people out here causing absolutely zero problems
My orcish blademaster, Daggarn Redjaw, was part of the force that carved a path through Felwood with Saurfang. When he saw what Sylvanas had done to the tree, he immediately burnt his standard and left the battlefield. He stayed to fight alongside his brethren in Lordaeron out of respect and trust in the Horde, but he lost all inkling of faith when he saw Sylvanas order the Blighting of her own men - the knife got pushed farther in when he realized she sent them to die for a city she knew was lost. Now he's just quietly waiting for his moment to help remove her.

Lokti, my troll shaman, was in Silithus at the time, helping to heal the Wound. He felt an intense tinge of pain on his way back to Orgrimmar, as if a thousand voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. The caravan of troops returning from the battle confirmed that they had burned Teldrassil. Lokti had stood by the Warchief's actions out of respect for his late chieftain's decision, but this was too much. He never returned to Orgrimmar with them, and he hasn't since.

Bugs Sparkflange, goblin mechanist, didn't have much care about the war or Teldrassil, but he's never had any love of the Horde anyway (considering Thrall's first action was to appoint the sleezebag who sold them into slavery as head of the faction). What did it for him was learning that his daughter Lola, a newly trained goblin sapper, had died in Lordaeron. When he asked to see the body, he learned that there was none, as she was melted by the Blight. Having finally had enough, Bugs finally decided that the Horde was content to leech off Goblin - AND his little girl - but never did anything for him in return. He's now gathering assets to get the hell out of Orgrimmar and set up basically anywhere where the Alliance and Horde isn't.

Varanas Arcosin, Sunreaver-aligned Sha'dorei, didn't have any involvement in the war, as he was too busy aiding the Kirin Tor and their cleanup efforts on the Broken Isles. When he heard about Teldrassil, he expected the First Arcanist to do something, as she had promised so many times that the Shal'dorei would be remembered as protectors, not conquerors. But when he also heard that Thalyssra had compliantly gone alongside an elite Horde team to infiltrate and extract prisoners from Stormwind, Varanas lost hope, believing her to have resolved the Shal'dorei to serve another Elisande. He now remains in Dalaran to give what aid he can to the Sunreavers, hoping that Aethas isn't foolhardy enough to get involved with the faction war after the struggles it took to get the Sunreavers back into Dalaran.
Witnessed it from afar, actually got to see the catapults starting to fire off.

Honestly? Writing Sparky's reaction was hard. Not hard in justifying his actions or thoughts, but hard to take in the sense of his story.
It was a steep emotional layout for a guy who'd been neutral for most of his life, only now starting to find a place in the Horde after being thrown to the wolves in the wake of the Cataclysm.

His pacifism nearly got himself killed numerous times against encroaching Sentinels, his hesitation lost the lives of miners and guards alike, and sparing what he thought was a level-headed Kaldorei commander just ended up in a bloody beatdown with an enraged Elemental as she turned back to try offing them again.
All to the audience of a veteran Orc who he aspired to be like - a fearless hero who could save everyone if he pleased, at least in his eyes.

The calm brought on by his first interaction with Azerite west of Master's Glaive was dashed by the time they'd trudged up north to witness the end of the conflict.
The realization - the sudden and jarring hit to them both - that "we don't have the numbers to hold Darnassus" as the fireballs began.
The sinking feeling of how many people were lost both sides for what was.. ultimately nothing to him. It was a war that was deemed "necessary to the Horde's survival".

He hated the SI:7 for what they did at the Lost Isles. He still hates them today for repeating it at Silithus. He dreads any new interactions with the Alliance in the back of his mind because, truly, many of them see Goblins as nothing more than their stereotypes. Some have reacted violently to him even daring to approach in the past, and yet he persists.
But that's not deserving of death, let alone starting a war in the wake of the Legion's defeat - after losing so many people already to such a force.

All in all, he didn't take it well. His friend didn't take it well. Nobody of mine that were present took it well. It was unnecessary force to an unnecessary battle.

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