Nerf Blood DK CORRECTLY

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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Topic like this make me want the downvote option again, ugh the !@#-baggery that is Hutta.
Funny, I remember all the DKs screaming for guardian nerfs when we were good in EN and NH... Now they’re all, “Oh no, don’t nerf blood, it’s fine that we’re even more broken than bears were at the start of Legion. Just ask for buffs!” Early Legion guardian was powerful but it still needed a healer at least. Lol.
10/12/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Kerah
That doesn't mean that all other tanks who are actually performing need to be brought down to your level.

That also doesn't mean all non-performing tanks should be brought up to Blood either.

10/12/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Kerah
In a perfect world sure, all tanks would be balanced but what would that actually mean?

The class designers said they wanted tanks to be more reliant on healers this expansion than in the past. So there is a goal post they've set. If a tank falls short and under performs relative to that goal post, they should receive buffs. If a tank exceeds that goal post beyond a reasonable margin, they should receive nerfs.

10/12/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Kerah
There would be no reason to play any class if they're all effectively the same.

There is also no reason someone wants to play a class if they're so ineffective at certain content that the only viable answer is to only play spec X or Y.

10/12/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Kerah
Blood excels at self healing because that is what the class was designed to do. Not at the expense of not needing a healer, but to take some stress off the healer.

No one disputes that the base philosophy but what is the problem is the fact BDK has reached a point where they go beyond "taking stress off a healer" to a point where "they no longer require a healer".

10/12/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Kerah
So if your problem with tanks being able to heal themselves, let's just take out the heals from Prot paladins, bm monks, blood dks, Guardian druids, havoc?

You're getting caught up on the self healing aspect, but the underlying problems with blood go beyond just things like Death Strike.

That said, lets look at what Death Strike does. That ability first deals a massive amount of damage, it does an insane amount of healing that is uncapped, and it applies an absorb shield on you. For any other tank, that's effectively 3 GCDs but for Blood they get all that for 1 GCD.

Then there are certain talents in the Blood toolkit which are extremely too strong for what they do, e.g. Bonestorm.

But none of this is to say tanks shouldn't have some self recovery here. The goal is to make sure that self recovery combined with mitigation do not reach a level where it substitutes a healer in non-trivial content.

10/12/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Kerah
There are clear problems with how prot warriors and Guardian druids perform and the answer to that is most definitely not "nerf other classes to their level".

I really wish for a moment people would get their heads out of the ground and understand that isn't what people are asking for. No one wants any tank at the present level of Guardian or Prot Warriors, not even Blizzard.

What people do want is for BDK not to violate the game designer's goals.

10/12/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Kerah
Especially if you were in charge of nerfing, you're asking for the entire spec to be removed at this point

Stop exaggerating, it does nothing but make you look ignorant.
10/12/2018 04:54 AMPosted by Snuffly
Funny, I remember all the DKs screaming for guardian nerfs when we were good in EN and NH... Now they’re all, “Oh no, don’t nerf blood, it’s fine that we’re even more broken than bears were at the start of Legion. Just ask for buffs!” Early Legion guardian was powerful but it still needed a healer at least. Lol.


Quantify "all".
Someone once said. Everyone is a fool for at least 5 minutes a day.
I think those calling for constant nerfs to others, have way exceeded their quota.

Get a god damn grip. Post constructive comments, tweets, feedback etc for what is wrong with your classes and roles, and less focus on others. Maybe then, we may make some headway with these foolish devs.
10/12/2018 06:59 AMPosted by Entrópy
10/12/2018 04:54 AMPosted by Snuffly
Funny, I remember all the DKs screaming for guardian nerfs when we were good in EN and NH... Now they’re all, “Oh no, don’t nerf blood, it’s fine that we’re even more broken than bears were at the start of Legion. Just ask for buffs!” Early Legion guardian was powerful but it still needed a healer at least. Lol.


Quantify "all".
Someone once said. Everyone is a fool for at least 5 minutes a day.
I think those calling for constant nerfs to others, have way exceeded their quota.

Get a god damn grip. Post constructive comments, tweets, feedback etc for what is wrong with your classes and roles, and less focus on others. Maybe then, we may make some headway with these foolish devs.


That has all been done. And just because some tanks need buffs, doesn't change the fact that blood needs nerfs.

So many broken records in here...
Blood DKs are so broken that they don't even need a healer to do +11/+12 Keys but somehow all Blood DKs are telling us Blood DKs aren't OP, buff other tanks to that level.
Druids and Warriors are incapable of understanding how we feel all they are is bitter people who want other classes destroyed like theirs instead of trying to come up with ways to fix their own class.

Their only soultion is to scream and cry for nerfs and now BDK and Monks are getting nerfed only matter of time before Demon hunter and Paldins get nerfed due to the cry baby Warriors and Druids.

Well guess what you 2 classes are never getting into any mythic plus I do ever again you will be denied for how selfish your classes have been. And you only have your class fellow members to blame.
how exactly is a DK nerf gonna make Warriors better?
lol 1/8 mythic and 2/8 Heroic ROFL. You are terrible and have no idea what you are talking about. delete WoW
10/12/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Clasmenethil
Druids and Warriors are incapable of understanding how we feel all they are is bitter people who want other classes destroyed like theirs instead of trying to come up with ways to fix their own class.

Their only soultion is to scream and cry for nerfs and now BDK and Monks are getting nerfed only matter of time before Demon hunter and Paldins get nerfed due to the cry baby Warriors and Druids.

Well guess what you 2 classes are never getting into any mythic plus I do ever again you will be denied for how selfish your classes have been. And you only have your class fellow members to blame.


So dramatic, and so wrong on pretty much every point.
10/12/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Clasmenethil
Druids and Warriors are incapable of understanding how we feel all they are is bitter people who want other classes destroyed like theirs instead of trying to come up with ways to fix their own class.

Their only soultion is to scream and cry for nerfs and now BDK and Monks are getting nerfed only matter of time before Demon hunter and Paldins get nerfed due to the cry baby Warriors and Druids.

Well guess what you 2 classes are never getting into any mythic plus I do ever again you will be denied for how selfish your classes have been. And you only have your class fellow members to blame.

That's EXACTLY what Blood DKs did when Prot Warriors and Guardian Druids were OP. Now you are acting like it's completely ridiculous when your class is OP.
10/12/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Clasmenethil
Druids and Warriors are incapable of understanding how we feel

Lest I remind you that Guardian was perceived as the god-tank at the start of the last expansion. It was so bad that BDK and other tanks were repeatedly calling for nerfs to the spec, which we got patch after patch.

But there a major difference between Legion and BFA.

At no point were Guardian druids at the extreme point of where Blood is now. We couldn't roll a M+12 with no healer and do it on time. While our mitigation and toolkit was well designed, we still required a healer which is more than what can be said for the current state of BDK.

I can't help it if you can't see the truth here and all you want to do is cry.

10/12/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Clasmenethil
Well guess what you 2 classes are never getting into any mythic plus I do ever again you will be denied for how selfish your classes have been.

That's your prerogative, but if you want to penalize someone all because of the class or spec they play, be my guest. That just shows me how petty you are.

10/12/2018 08:06 AMPosted by Liliciä
how exactly is a DK nerf gonna make Warriors better?

It isn't and that's not the point.

Class balance is a multi-dimensional activity. A specific goal point is set where classes of a given role are to be near, given a margin of error. If a class is lower than the margin of error, they get buffs. If a class is higher than the margin of error, they get nerfs.

There is really nothing overly complex or hard to understand about that. Blood clearly exceeds that margin of error while warriors fall well below it.
10/12/2018 08:47 AMPosted by Älilei
OP wants to use raider.io so lets link his profile:

Just because someone makes a post on a specific avatar doesn't discount the fact they may actually play multiple classes.

So, what exactly does that have to do with anything?
Notice that the naysayers are reverting to Ad Hominem attacks as they can not defend their positions.
or talking about emotions....Blood DKs are outliers at the beginning of this expansion that is fact. Something should be done either buffing under preforming tanks or nerfing over performing ones or a combination of both. All tanks should be viable to some point but there needs to be more balance.
10/12/2018 09:56 AMPosted by Nightsage
Something should be done either buffing under preforming tanks or nerfing over performing ones or a combination of both.

Given the current state of tanks, it absolutely has to be a combination.
Love how the solution is instead of bringing up other tanks to a comparable level their solution is to make the well performing class *DROP* down to a lower level.
10/11/2018 07:42 PMPosted by Crosshairs
Some of that self-reliance needs to be removed though. A tank needs to rely on his healer just as much as a dps needs a healer or a healer needs their tank and vice-versa.


This model is working great for Prot/Guardian too.

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