How to fix Prot Warriors

Warrior
This is a list of things that will make the spec competitive. The numbers are a ballpark guess, so they might be a bit too high or too low, but they should be a good starting point for the PTR.
  • 1. Shield Block cooldown removed, but the effectiveness of mastery has been reduced by 50%. This will give us 100% uptime on AM which we really need. The mastery nerf is to avoid having mastery being overpowered with the increased uptime.
  • 2. Warriors can block any attack that is mitigatable by armor. There is honestly no reason not to have this since we are weak to ranged attacks while other tanks can use AM for it.
  • 3. Ignore Pain has been redesigned. It is now off the GCD and reduces damage taken by 20% for 6 seconds. This will make it easier to balance and it won't have the bad scaling issue in high-end content like it does now.
  • 4. Impending Victory is now baseline and the talent will reduce its cooldown to 10 seconds. We are the only tank without a baseline self heal and we could really use it for M+.
  • 5. Indomnitable is now baseline and the talent will increase the bonus to 25%. We
    have low health pools and are very vulnerable to magic damage compared to other tanks. This will put us on par with the other tanks.
How to fix Prot Warriors: Make them stupidly broken.

Genius.
Point 2 is something that makes sense and really should be a thing
(I mean seriously why can't my shield stop arrows and rocks blizzard?)
Everything else though... Yeah no
I'd prefer if they just got rid of Ignore Pain completely and attached an alternative solution to magical damage elsewhere. Not only is the Warrior Prot tank inferior to the alternatives, but it's also harder to play because of the multitude of cooldowns it needs to use. They really should streamline Prot better and to do that, they need to remove Ignore Pain completely.

If they want to keep a 'skill' factor involved, why not jut make Shield Block reduce the damage of magical effects for half of its full duration? That way a Warrior still needs to time their shield block effectively but it also streamlines the class more?

As for the self healing option, why not just introduce a passive that allows the Prot Warrior to heal for X% every time they dodge, block, or parry an attack? This way they'd have some control over their self healing with shield block. They'd effectively have a full heal and stay healed option with shield wall, and would have a decent amount of random healing from periodic damage?

This in conjunction with just allowing all Warrior specs to use impending victory whenever they want with a 30 second cooldown should round out the issues pretty well imo.

The last remaining issue for Prot Warriors over others is just their lack of utility. For this I'd like to see them introduce a new Prot Warrior ability where they 'summon' a large shield and slam it into the ground that would effectively become a barrier that blocks LOS from opponents. This way Warriors can more effectively pull ranged mobs and they could find some neat PvE uses for such a move too.
09/25/2018 09:26 AMPosted by Penguinjim
How to fix Prot Warriors: Make them stupidly broken.

Genius.

I did state that those were not exact tuning numbers, but a starting point. Just tone down the block stat when shield block is up and reduce the damage reduction of the new IP if we would be brokenly OP with the ones I put.
09/25/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Limta
I'd prefer if they just got rid of Ignore Pain completely and attached an alternative solution to magical damage elsewhere. Not only is the Warrior Prot tank inferior to the alternatives, but it's also harder to play because of the multitude of cooldowns it needs to use. They really should streamline Prot better and to do that, they need to remove Ignore Pain completely.

If they want to keep a 'skill' factor involved, why not jut make Shield Block reduce the damage of magical effects for half of its full duration? That way a Warrior still needs to time their shield block effectively but it also streamlines the class more?

As for the self healing option, why not just introduce a passive that allows the Prot Warrior to heal for X% every time they dodge, block, or parry an attack? This way they'd have some control over their self healing with shield block. They'd effectively have a full heal and stay healed option with shield wall, and would have a decent amount of random healing from periodic damage?

This in conjunction with just allowing all Warrior specs to use impending victory whenever they want with a 30 second cooldown should round out the issues pretty well imo.

The last remaining issue for Prot Warriors over others is just their lack of utility. For this I'd like to see them introduce a new Prot Warrior ability where they 'summon' a large shield and slam it into the ground that would effectively become a barrier that blocks LOS from opponents. This way Warriors can more effectively pull ranged mobs and they could find some neat PvE uses for such a move too.


There are already 4 tanks with streamlined rotations. Play one of those if you find the other 2 too complicated.
09/25/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Sackless
09/25/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Limta
I'd prefer if they just got rid of Ignore Pain completely and attached an alternative solution to magical damage elsewhere. Not only is the Warrior Prot tank inferior to the alternatives, but it's also harder to play because of the multitude of cooldowns it needs to use. They really should streamline Prot better and to do that, they need to remove Ignore Pain completely.

If they want to keep a 'skill' factor involved, why not jut make Shield Block reduce the damage of magical effects for half of its full duration? That way a Warrior still needs to time their shield block effectively but it also streamlines the class more?

As for the self healing option, why not just introduce a passive that allows the Prot Warrior to heal for X% every time they dodge, block, or parry an attack? This way they'd have some control over their self healing with shield block. They'd effectively have a full heal and stay healed option with shield wall, and would have a decent amount of random healing from periodic damage?

This in conjunction with just allowing all Warrior specs to use impending victory whenever they want with a 30 second cooldown should round out the issues pretty well imo.

The last remaining issue for Prot Warriors over others is just their lack of utility. For this I'd like to see them introduce a new Prot Warrior ability where they 'summon' a large shield and slam it into the ground that would effectively become a barrier that blocks LOS from opponents. This way Warriors can more effectively pull ranged mobs and they could find some neat PvE uses for such a move too.


There are already 4 tanks with streamlined rotations. Play one of those if you find the other 2 too complicated.


That's not the point at all. What is the Warrior gaining by having a more complicated rotation? He doesn't tank better. It's needlessly more complicated.
09/25/2018 12:39 PMPosted by Limta
09/25/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Sackless
...

There are already 4 tanks with streamlined rotations. Play one of those if you find the other 2 too complicated.


That's not the point at all. What is the Warrior gaining by having a more complicated rotation? He doesn't tank better. It's needlessly more complicated.


That's an argument about throughput, that's not necessarily an argument against a skill divide. This games mechanics revolve around stand in this, don't stand in this, interrupt this, stun that, mitigate this, avoid that. It has no long term fun at all. Learning it is enjoyable, but they've reached a ceiling of mechanics they can add without making the skill floor unachievable by the worst player in the community (and even average players).

So what's left? Your rotation, the thing you use 14,000,000 times throughout your time in game. You want that to be some sort of 2h learning curve, like most of the other tanks, for what reason? I use a different combination of skills on every single pull in a different order. The fact that there are mob abilities I have no real answer for is not an argument that I need fewer answers over all or my answer should be super passive. Why are you supporting the dumbing down of every class? What do you stand to gain from that? 6 alts that play exactly the same? Balance issues exist and will hopefully be addressed, but that shouldn't come at the expense of player choice and player choice shouldn't be limited to the color of your name plate.
09/25/2018 12:39 PMPosted by Limta
That's not the point at all. What is the Warrior gaining by having a more complicated rotation? He doesn't tank better. It's needlessly more complicated.

Personal preference. There's plenty of people out there who would play a more complex spec for the sake of not being bored.
That's not the right answer either.

Class design is what makes the classes unique and interesting with differing skills used for different mechanics and so forth. Your rotation doesn't make your class better than another. It makes you better than another individual player. You mastering your rotation should make you a better Warrior, not a better tank.

Effort deserves to be rewarded. Not only is the Warrior class in general poorly equipped when compared to the other tanks, but it's also more difficult to play for no reason whatsoever.
09/25/2018 01:21 PMPosted by Limta
That's not the right answer either.

Class design is what makes the classes unique and interesting with differing skills used for different mechanics and so forth. Your rotation doesn't make your class better than another. It makes you better than another individual player. You mastering your rotation should make you a better Warrior, not a better tank.

Effort deserves to be rewarded. Not only is the Warrior class in general poorly equipped when compared to the other tanks, but it's also more difficult to play for no reason whatsoever.


It's more difficult to play so others who are better at the game have something to keep them interested. The rotation makes the class better for me. If you don't like the rotation of a prot warrior, don't play one. If you want to press the same 6 buttons in the same order for hours at a time, be my guest. That has no long term enjoyment for me and saying that it's needless doesn't speak to the gap of player experience that exists.

When I was a scrub, in TBC, my shaman had a chain heal centric rotation with a totem drop every 2 mins. It was perfect for the level of experience I had. 10 years later, playing something like that has no enjoyment at all.
Honestly having shields block arrows/bullets/rocks... makes sense to me, and should be possible. I have never understood why they feel that all ranged attacks should not be block able.

As for Mastery, they are already testing removing it and most likely replacing it sense it's not exactly a consistent/reliable DR.

As for the rest... I feel the class has a good base idea. It needs some love, and tuning. I mean as for Ignore Pain, it would need replaced if removed, and so far I have not seen a good solution for as to what to replace it with.

In the end, further Pruning or dumbing down the specs if definitely not the way to go.
One of the primary functions of the shield on historic battlefields was blocking projectiles. I'm in full support of letting us block arrows and rocks and the like.

It's not only logical/realistic/a big part of what a Shield's for but it'd also give us something neat that the other tanks don't have. Though really, any shield tank should be able to.
Prot Paladin Talent Currently Live: Your block chance is increased by 15%, you are able to block spells, and your successful blocks deal (9.828% of Attack power) Holy damage to your attacker.

Prot Warrior Talent To Be Explored: Your block chance is increased by 15%, you are able to block non-magical ranged attacks, and your successful blocks grant 2 points of Rage.

Let's upvote this straight to the Dev Team. Get Dragon Roar out of here and move Into The Fray off the tier 1 talents. Put this bad boy in at tier 1 and change Into The Fray to a freaking passive for Prot Already. It shouldn't be a talent!
09/25/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Limta
I'd prefer if they just got rid of Ignore Pain completely and attached an alternative solution to magical damage elsewhere. Not only is the Warrior Prot tank inferior to the alternatives, but it's also harder to play because of the multitude of cooldowns it needs to use. They really should streamline Prot better and to do that, they need to remove Ignore Pain completely.

If they want to keep a 'skill' factor involved, why not jut make Shield Block reduce the damage of magical effects for half of its full duration? That way a Warrior still needs to time their shield block effectively but it also streamlines the class more?

As for the self healing option, why not just introduce a passive that allows the Prot Warrior to heal for X% every time they dodge, block, or parry an attack? This way they'd have some control over their self healing with shield block. They'd effectively have a full heal and stay healed option with shield wall, and would have a decent amount of random healing from periodic damage?

This in conjunction with just allowing all Warrior specs to use impending victory whenever they want with a 30 second cooldown should round out the issues pretty well imo.

The last remaining issue for Prot Warriors over others is just their lack of utility. For this I'd like to see them introduce a new Prot Warrior ability where they 'summon' a large shield and slam it into the ground that would effectively become a barrier that blocks LOS from opponents. This way Warriors can more effectively pull ranged mobs and they could find some neat PvE uses for such a move too.


You had me at slamming a shield down.
I'd like to see the following changes:

    * Shield Slam- In addition to existing effects, SS mitigates x% of magical damage for x seconds.
    * Ignore Pain- Converts rage to a heal at x% of rage per x% of health, w/ a cd of x seconds.
    * Never Surrender Talent- IP ratio buffed to x% of rage per x% of health.
    * Vengeance talent- IP also eliminates the rage cost of the next Revenge, and the next Revenge also generates x additional rage.
    * Heavy Repercussions talent- Sblock also generates x rage over x seconds.
    * Ravager talent- In addition to existing effects, radius doubled, and all affected targets are taunted.


Individual ability rage costs may need to be tweaked depending on the values of X, but warriors in combat should constantly generate rage, and have the options to spend that rage on damage, mitigation, or healing. I threw in the Ravager change because I've long hated it for prot, and I want to see it turned into a pseudo Gorefiend's Grasp.
I like Ravager, I hate it being a talent.
09/25/2018 01:16 PMPosted by Crateria
09/25/2018 12:39 PMPosted by Limta
That's not the point at all. What is the Warrior gaining by having a more complicated rotation? He doesn't tank better. It's needlessly more complicated.

Personal preference. There's plenty of people out there who would play a more complex spec for the sake of not being bored.


That, exactly that.
This is the reason I'm leveling this warrior and not a DH or DK.
Same reason I prefer to play a feral druid over a Havoc DH as well.

You can have a more complicated rotation and achieve the same goal as someone with 3 buttoms. I'd rather press 6 buttoms instead though, personal preference.

I don't think warrior's issues lies in their rotation and abilities, I think it is just a number's issue and the change to GCD. Also, I agree my shield should block arrows and physical projectiles, it makes no sense to not to. Shields were basically invented to counter arrows... since parry was always been more effective against most (bladed) melee weapons.

My idea for a fix would simply buff what we already have, without changing anything.

Vanguard: Stamina increased by 40% and armor by 60% of your strength (up from 35 and 45%)

Shield Block cooldown lowered by 2 seconds.

Ignore pain rage cost reduced to 30 rage to line up with shield block and revenge costs. (The Absorb amount remains unchanged, so it is a 25% buff in rage/absorb ratio)

Block now works against physical projectiles and non magical ranged attacks.

Charge generates 20 rage. (Up from 15)

Thunder clap generates 5 rage, plus 1 extra rage per enemy hit, capped at 5 enemies. (Now you can charge in a group of 5 enemies, thunderclap and instantly use an AM)

Victory Rush now procs when an enemy you have damaged in the last 3 seconds die. Victory Rush heal now lowered to 15% maximum HP. (Down from 20%)

There, warrior fixed without changing much of the gameplay. Just the fact you can block ranged attacks will make revenge proc twice as much for AoE threat.
09/27/2018 07:03 AMPosted by Sönya
I like Ravager, I hate it being a talent.


Fair enough, I've long hated Ravager as a talent, particularly as such a high tier talent.
I agree i don't think our utility is broken as much as number wise it doesn't stack up to other tanks.

Lowest health pool of all tanks

only tanks that don't have a self heal(unless talented, not even a fair trade off for into the fray)

to say the least in raiding we are by far the Super Squishy tank that no one wants(straight decline when qued)

hope Blizz fixes us soon. first time since vanilla i actually need to change my prot warrior as a main because it feels unplayable for what I enjoy doing, and i don't want to.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum