Surge of Power is crap.

Shaman
I'm very thankful that Blizzard is finally getting around to addressing Elemental Shaman, my personal favorite spec in the game. But we need to talk about this new talent, Surge of Power:

Surge of Power - Earth Shock also enhances your next spell:

    Flame Shock: The next cast does not incur a cooldown.

    Lightning Bolt: Your next 3 casts will cause an additional Elemental Overload.

    Lava Burst: Reduces the cooldown of your Fire (or Storm) Elemental by 6 sec.

    Frost Shock: Roots the target in place for 6 sec.


It's crap. The main reason is that three of those buffs are almost useless.

Flame Shock incurring no cooldown (which should be baseline) after casting Earth Shock has absolutely no utility on a single target fight. It only helps with cleave, and only when the other target you put it on survives long enough to get most of the DoT ticks off.

Lava Burst reducing Elemental cooldown is probably not going to increase your damage in most scenarios. Consider that until you're able to buy yourself an entire additional cast of Flame Elemental (by reducing the cooldown cumulatively by 2.5 minutes), this buff does not increase your damage AT ALL. Given that over a ~6 minute fight the Shaman only casts an average of 33.8 Earth Shocks (according to simcraft), You'd need to line those Earth Shocks up with 25 Lava Bursts (remember you cant cast any other spells following an Earth Shock or you'll waste the buff), it's unlikely that the shaman would get an additional Fire elemental out over the course of a typical raid encounter. This buff is terribly unreliable and should be avoided.

Edit: I was wrong with some of the numbers here. As was pointed out, you only need to reduce the cooldown enough to fit another Fire Elemental in before the fight ends with time for the Elemental to do damage (preferably for up to 30 seconds of uptime). In a six minute fight that only needs to be 1.5 - 2 minutes, or 15-20 Earth Shock-Lava Burst combos. Taking this into account, I still firmly stand behind the point that the Lava Burst buff is probably too unreliable to try to take advantage of.

Frost Shock may have some use in PvP, but Im guessing following an Earth Shock the Shaman would be focused on bursting the target down. Situational at best. No damage increase obviously.

Lightning Bolt buff is actually pretty cool. Combined with the new Stormkeeper you'd get 2 Lightning Bolts at 250% increased damage that each overload three times, and then a smaller lightning bolt after that.

Conclusion: The problem is that because Surge of Power can be consumed by other spells you run the risk of wasting the buff on a categorically worse buff. The talent would actually be improved if they removed the other buffs! Otherwise Shaman players may end up in situations where they intentionally mess up their rotation in order to not waste the buff which would feel more like performing damage control for a badly designed talent. On paper this talent is dead on arrival. I can't see using it over the other talents that row for anything other than maybe burst damage in PvP.

If Blizzard is really set on adding this talent please only make it buff lightning bolt.

Also fix everything else that's wrong with Elemental because this talent addresses none of the spec's issues.
I agree. The other three are very lackluster.
its almost like thats a first iteration and theyre still working things out
oof the feelycrafting is real
They either need to remove the fire ele or make it interactive. I've always hated how our dps is linked to it.

I want to be a proc heavy lava throwing giant.

Get rid of stormkeeper. I hated unleash elements then and in it's new form. Just give me fun interactive spells and burst.
You're wrong about the elemental CD reduction bit. While it is potentially lackluster, it doesn't need to reduce it by a full duration as you claim, it needs to simply reduce it by enough to let you get off another cast where you otherwise wouldn't on the fight. For example on a 6 minute fight it merely needs to reduce the CD by 1.5 minutes for it to be useful. How much it ends up reducing the CD by and how useful that is for current fights is what we really need to know to determine how useful it will be.

It would probably be more useful in M+ where you could chain cast the elemental for clearing trash (especially in Fortified weeks). Or on Tyrannical weeks where boss fights last longer but not 2.5+ minutes.
09/19/2018 04:59 PMPosted by PlayerVFKGRX
its almost like thats a first iteration and theyre still working things out
Is this some variant of the "chill out it's just beta" argument? Because if so, I think we can all agree that no one needs to be giving Blizzard the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the shaman class.
09/19/2018 05:40 PMPosted by Darigaaz
You're wrong about the elemental CD reduction bit. While it is potentially lackluster, it doesn't need to reduce it by a full duration as you claim, it needs to simply reduce it by enough to let you get off another cast where you otherwise wouldn't on the fight. For example on a 6 minute fight it merely needs to reduce the CD by 1.5 minutes for it to be useful. How much it ends up reducing the CD by and how useful that is for current fights is what we really need to know to determine how useful it will be.

It would probably be more useful in M+ where you could chain cast the elemental for clearing trash (especially in Fortified weeks). Or on Tyrannical weeks where boss fights last longer but not 2.5+ minutes.


Thank you for correcting me. I editted my post accordingly.

I would bet it still wouldn't put Lava Burst above Lightning Bolt in priority for Surge of Power procs. Even in the scenario you described in Mythic+ it wouldn't provide much benefit unless you were casting it on cooldown and getting full uptime for the elemental to do damage.
I like the idea of spells buffing other spells to get back into a spell weaving, interesting rotation. But I hate fire ele, would rather have it completely removed from my bars, if I wanted a pet I’d be a mage or a hunter. The frost shock root is somewhat useful in pvp. The flame shock doesn’t need a cool down it worked fine in legion without one. I don’t wanna be OP but give me a chance to play end game. Those buffs aren’t going to change people’s mind about the uselessness of shaman in a raid or mythic +.
I think the lightning bolt synergy could be insane. They took out exposed elements because if we stacked that talent on top of these lightning bolt buffs it'd be broken op. I think the maelstrom generation from the 3 extra lightning bolts and the 250% increased damage should help us a lot. This is just my speculation. We'll have to test it on the ptr tbh because primal elementalist is VERY strong especially in pvp, I feel like its necessary in pvp because of the 40% DR buff earth elemental gives, very necessary for insane burst in arena right now.

Earthen rage will probably be a dps boost instead of echo of the elements for level 15 talen, although this is just pure speculation.
i mean itd be fun to do 100k in 3 GCDs every minute with the stormkeeper + SoP
09/19/2018 06:11 PMPosted by Thunderhammr
09/19/2018 05:40 PMPosted by Darigaaz
You're wrong about the elemental CD reduction bit. While it is potentially lackluster, it doesn't need to reduce it by a full duration as you claim, it needs to simply reduce it by enough to let you get off another cast where you otherwise wouldn't on the fight. For example on a 6 minute fight it merely needs to reduce the CD by 1.5 minutes for it to be useful. How much it ends up reducing the CD by and how useful that is for current fights is what we really need to know to determine how useful it will be.

It would probably be more useful in M+ where you could chain cast the elemental for clearing trash (especially in Fortified weeks). Or on Tyrannical weeks where boss fights last longer but not 2.5+ minutes.


Thank you for correcting me. I editted my post accordingly.

I would bet it still wouldn't put Lava Burst above Lightning Bolt in priority for Surge of Power procs. Even in the scenario you described in Mythic+ it wouldn't provide much benefit unless you were casting it on cooldown and getting full uptime for the elemental to do damage.


For M+ I think there's potential there, but it will also depend on the shaman. The elemental is better for AoE and at higher keys it isn't uncommon for packs to last 30 seconds or for you to chain pull (all depending on affixes and your group of course). At which point the elemental, especially if combined with Primal Elementalist, could make LvB the better choice than LB.

I agree that LvB probably wouldn't overtake LB for most boss fights, but if the numbers are balanced properly the talent has the potential to give viable options to the shaman, based on what content they're doing. We will need someone to actually crunch the numbers to see if it's worth it.

Also I have a question on how the LB bonus works. It says the next 3 LB will proc an EO, but what happens if the attack was already going to proc an EO? I'm assuming the attack would proc 2 EOs, which then leads into the next question of if they're both at 85% of the base spell or if one EO proc is at 85% of the base spell and then the second one is at 85% of the first EO proc? Likewise the SoP might simply set EO to 100% for those casts and thus you would "lose" any EO procs that would have happened naturally. All of these things will potentially affect where LB falls in consuming the SoP effect compared to other options.
A retort. instead of taking storm keeper (which is viable with this), you can take unlimited power. With this, you can keep using lightning bolt as your filler and almost everyone increases your haste by 2%. This is because with regular overloads, 3 guaranteed overloads, totems, and call of thunder, you can keep the next 3 lightning overlords almost on CD constantly between having to add in flame shocks and lava bursts. It makes other parts of the build viable again. The other aspects of surge are purely for how you want to play. You dont always need to multidot, but it really helps getting another flameshock of a fetid add or getting that 6 seconds off fire elemental to hit the burn phase just right with it. It is better than what we had prior
09/19/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Darigaaz

For M+ I think there's potential there, but it will also depend on the shaman. The elemental is better for AoE and at higher keys it isn't uncommon for packs to last 30 seconds or for you to chain pull (all depending on affixes and your group of course). At which point the elemental, especially if combined with Primal Elementalist, could make LvB the better choice than LB.

I agree that LvB probably wouldn't overtake LB for most boss fights, but if the numbers are balanced properly the talent has the potential to give viable options to the shaman, based on what content they're doing. We will need someone to actually crunch the numbers to see if it's worth it.

Also I have a question on how the LB bonus works. It says the next 3 LB will proc an EO, but what happens if the attack was already going to proc an EO? I'm assuming the attack would proc 2 EOs, which then leads into the next question of if they're both at 85% of the base spell or if one EO proc is at 85% of the base spell and then the second one is at 85% of the first EO proc? Likewise the SoP might simply set EO to 100% for those casts and thus you would "lose" any EO procs that would have happened naturally. All of these things will potentially affect where LB falls in consuming the SoP effect compared to other options.


Ah but you can't combine it with Primal Elementalist because that's in the same row.

I don't have any idea how they'd implement the overload. From the post "additional" indicates to me its just another regular overload, so 85% of the original spell, regardless of whether it already overloaded. But that's purely speculation. It'd be really lame if it just made the chance 100% and nullified the effect of our mastery stat, but it also be in line with how they treat Lava Burst and crit chance right now (it only increases the damage of LvB if you're using Ascendence).
You have a 40 maelstrom grace period.

You absolutely can control which spell will be cast after you cast earth shock.

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