Taunt Changes in 8.1?

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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09/21/2018 11:30 PMPosted by Tewa
Looking at single-target boss fights for tank DPS, let's look at Vectis since he's the only true single-target fight in Uldir:


Druids doing only 80% of all other tanks on Vectis.

And before anyone says "they'll fix Guardian DPS", we've been waiting for that since WoD.

Okay but Vectis isn't actually single target though...
I would love to get a response on this. Sometimes I do double the dps than any co tank I have in raids(Usually guardian druids, tank roster is currently unstable in my guild but seems it's gonna get better soon hopefully). I might just end up hurting the raid instead of helping it if this change goes live...

I know it's not all doom and gloom but I play a DH. I would love to not have to reroll for the good of the guild(Again, had to do it in tomb because back then my co tank sucked, but in 8.1 case it wouldn't be the same case. I mean DK tank was good too but I don't wanna reroll because of threat changes again, blizz pls.). Or, not have to melee the boss while I don't have it.

Thankfully doesn't seem aimed at M+.

But idk why at this point I'm just thinking at looking elsewhere as far as games go. I did not want to say it but please do not ruin the game experience for tanks. The threat changes weren't too bad, I mean tanking was faceroll now it's harder thank god but this is taking a step too far Blizz.
I can't wait to tell my cotank to go afk just so I can hold aggro, if this taunt change goes through.

How is this going to be engaging gameplay?
09/22/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Duskhawk
I can't wait to tell my cotank to go afk just so I can hold aggro, if this taunt change goes through.

How is this going to be engaging gameplay?

Healers trying to keep me alive as offtank on fetid while i cant deathstrike will be engaging for them I guess...
09/22/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Nooblol
09/22/2018 08:34 AMPosted by Bigdiggles
So what purpose will taunt actually serve after the change? Doesn’t make sense.

Aggro pingpong. Such new gameplay, so much fun.

Maybe tanks are supposed to put taunt on their "rotation" now? Nobody knows what BS the devs are coming with.

Actually, that sounds like something they would come up with. Just like with Shadow Word: Death, "we believe that players find it too confusing to figure out when to press this button." Now taunt is just part of the rotation and nobody will have to think about anything!
The changes in this xpac are appalling, why would they change taunt.. SO DUMB
I would like some communication on what Blizzard's goal is here, though I know that's too much to hope for these days.

Tanking is already in a bad spot right now and tanks are hard enough to come by as it is. Take a look at the group finder at any random point in the day and see how many groups are 4/5 and looking for a tank.

I can't see any benefit to this whatsoever.
Threat nerfs, Needed abilities on the GBC, Taunt nerf maybe? Being a tank is supposed to be a harder job, but your going above and beyond at this point blizzard.
I don’t understand why Blizzard would make this change. Tanking is already in a relatively rough spot, and if you’re going to spend time testing and changing something about tanks, how about the current issues we have. Such as:

1) Tank balance, as seen through player representation. R.I.P. warriors and Druids.
2) Tank talents. Currently DH has over 95% of the player base picking the same talent on 5 rows. I know other tanks have major talent issues also.
3) Gameplay/Fun/GCDs and pacing.

But no, They choose to “fix” something that’s not broken. Why bliz why?

No seriously. I’d like to know the dev reasoning behind this ludicrous change.
Fun detected: NERF
09/24/2018 07:29 AMPosted by Mafic
Fun detected: NERF

Fun? This isn't even a nerf to fun. It's a straight up nerf to effectiveness as a player. Fun was nerfed with the removal of Rage of the Sleeper, this is just kicking a dead horse.
09/24/2018 07:32 AMPosted by Brokenclaws
09/24/2018 07:29 AMPosted by Mafic
Fun detected: NERF

Fun? This isn't even a nerf to fun. It's a straight up nerf to effectiveness as a player. Fun was nerfed with the removal of Rage of the Sleeper, this is just kicking a dead horse.

Pruning/nerfing effectiveness of a player is all the same. WoW devs are on a crusade against players that show skill with their spec or class.
ITT, no one understands what taunt does outside the threat debuff.
Sigh... its basically a "Are you a blood dk? No? then go eff yourself" patch for tanks... Druids are already near the bottom for everything tanking wise, GCD changes are a nightmare, abilities lost is crippling.. oh and now we're removing any effective purpose taunt had... thanks a-holes....
Blizzard: "Why would we make a change that doesn't feel good?"
Also Blizzard: Continues to make changes that don't feel good.

Yes, that's a quote up there that I put in parenthesis (as close to exact wording as I can remember).

Taunt does two things:
1: Changes your threat to be at the top of the meter (thus commanding aggro).
2: Increases the threat you generate against that target for 3 seconds.

This change seems to remove the second part. It's not going to keep us from being able to do taunt swaps. What it WILL keep us from being able to do is maintain threat on targets we've lost threat on in crowds, or to keep us from generating more threat against the main target we're trying to maintain. With the way they've seemed shifted our role to be more focused on keeping threat and DPS being important to do that, this PTR change to taunt is not surprising in the least.

I was excited for a moment when I realized that death grip would maintain at least part of the threat increase. Don't worry, non-DK tanks, it's not actually that amazing. Death Grip is on the GCD (to our dismay as of 8.0...) so all this really changes for us is make it so we don't lose a GCDs worth of threat on that target (we only have time to use one other ability before the threat increase window ends). Sure, it'll pump up a tick of DND and maybe blood plague if it falls in the window, but that's negligible compared to the grand scheme of threat we're generating.

^^^ I hope the above helps explain this a bit. I'm not saying it's a good thing. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that I raid with that has seen this change is going "Why? What? This isn't good." It's hard enough getting people to throttle their DPS until we collect adds in BfA now, nevermind with this change affecting the one-off mobs we lose threat on constantly.
09/24/2018 10:50 AMPosted by Captenplanet
Druids are already near the bottom for everything tanking wise

You are somewhat wrong, Druids aren't near bottom they are at the bottom, in highest keys. Even Warriors are doing better than Druids in +15 and higher Keys :D

Warrior are 3.1% and Druids are 1% (Source: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards#role=tank:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=15:maxMythicLevel=15), i guess Warriors and Druids are racing each other in who is worse.
09/21/2018 11:39 PMPosted by Naros
09/21/2018 11:26 PMPosted by Tewa
Hopefully it's just a tooltip change.

I hope so too, but I also just saw this:

Death Grip - Harness the energy that surrounds and binds all amtter, drawing the target toward you, forcing the enemy to attack you, and increasing threat you generate against that target by 200% (was 400%) for 3s.

If the designers are truly going forward with this change and leave Death Grip with a threat modifier for 3 seconds, that just clearly goes to show that all they want is everyone to roll Blood DK and we can just scrap the other 5 tank classes. Blood DK already has one of the best well rounded toolkits in the game as is.

The pessimistic part of me (who, through this expac, has been stuffing the optimistic side full of enough crow that I'm turning into an Arakkoa) wonders if this is a misguided and unneeded attempt to vary up the different tank taunts for unnecessary "flavor" reasons. BDK generates extra threat, Monk's still gives the target the run speed buff, etc.
09/24/2018 07:29 AMPosted by Mafic
Fun detected: NERF

It's not even nerfing fun - it's more like they're just making the game more difficult when there's already enough to worry about; especially at the hi keys and raids.
Sorry for the delay in responding to this; I wanted to make sure I had all my info 100% correct before I said anything, rather than risk giving you incorrect or incomplete info.

So first off: the threat bonus from using taunts is not being removed. That's a tooltip change that was made entirely for consistency; every taunt increases threat generation while it's active, but it was only mentioned in the tooltip for a few of them for some reason. So that's just basic housekeeping.

However, separate from the tooltip change, we are going to experiment a little with reducing how big the threat bonus is on the 8.1 PTR. Currently, it's pretty massive, which is a holdover from when it was first added in Mists of Pandaria. Remember, back then active tanks were dealing huge amounts of damage (and thus, threat) due to the Vengeance mechanic, and so the offtank needed a huge threat boost to be able to keep aggro through tank swaps. That mechanic hasn't existed for a few expansions now.

Nowadays, in BFA, threat is once again something tanks need to keep in mind, and that massive bonus opens us up to all sorts of wacky issues as DPS (both from tanks and from damage dealers) increases. As one example, there's a risk that we end up in a situation where certain tanks need to use their taunt on cooldown as part of their single target rotation. That would be bad for several fairly obvious reasons.

So, we're going to try it with a lower bonus on the PTR and see what happens. Our expectation is that there is no tangible effect on your gameplay; you still use taunts exactly how you do now, and they have the same result.
From what I can gather from the spell effects, it looks to be a nerf from 500% threat bonus down to 300%.

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