Feral 8.1 Changes Summary

Druid
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09/26/2018 05:22 AMPosted by Brokenclaws
Now I just want to see blood talons effectiveness brought down a tiny bit, and have the lowered % baked into Rip/Rake or all abilities. I want an option in the bottom line of talents. Not Blood Talons or GTFO as it currently stands. I don't care if it remains, just buff the other talents to compensate or lower its effectiveness.

Edit: As it stands, won't blood talons become even more powerful with an AoE rip?


Yes it would.

Even though I really like and enjoy Bloodtalons, they need to do something about it. Having no viable alternatives, even in specific situations, is silly - especially for people who don't enjoy it.
Everyone’s excited it’ll help PVE which it might but none of these changes helps ferals for PVP. We’ve never been top tier specs. We were actually good with strong damage and heals and we get nerfed into the ground. These changes suck for PVP
Updated to clarify Mastery changes and how Sabertooth interacts with the new Rip durations.
09/22/2018 04:43 AMPosted by Applesoup
Bloodtalons should be one of the talents replaced. Who the hell thinks a heal in a dps rotation is fun or interesting? How this talent has survived so long truly baffles me. Also, Jagged Wounds removed feels like a significant nerf to me. And 4 finishers now? WTF kind of convoluted bloat are they going for with this spec? Most specs don't have 4 buttons let alone 4 finishers.


Talons actually made for an interesting rotation, not interesting compared to previous expansions but interesting compared to other classes on BFA/Legion

It also severely helped Feral survive in PVP given how squishy they are. You could moon fire and kite to build CP and go in to FB and continue kiting only shredding during CC.

Or against a Mage you could go in and shred more with less moon fires, it allowed for a adaptive play style.

Now it’ll be spam shred and FB, rinse repeat forever.
10/23/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Trapdancing
Now it’ll be spam shred
I wouldn't say that hitting a button 3 times which will make you oom is spamming - more like SLOW AS F.

And 4 finishers now?
1)Rip
2)Maim
3)Savage Roar
4)Ferocious Bite
5)Primal Wrath

Not sure about my math there - but that's FIVE finishers.
these actually seem like good changes. Also there is word of cyclone getting added back!!!
Updated with new Sabertooth change and added PvP changes.
Feral feels worse for GCD and energy regen, even with the Savage Roar change. I hope they revert taking away the haste bonus we get.
10/23/2018 10:27 PMPosted by Armanii
Feral feels worse for GCD and energy regen, even with the Savage Roar change. I hope they revert taking away the haste bonus we get.
Not only that - but so far, all talents combo's and all asserite trait combo's results in feral being a solid 2-3k dps lower in ptr compared to live. We went from having the slowest energy regen in the game to.... even slower (how that is possible I don't know).

I can not stress how bad not having any form of execute phase is. Removing rip being auto refreshed under 25% health is the worst change of them all.

Further, the direct AoE damage is still so damn low our instant AoE damage is LAUGHABLE. I'm not saying that AoE should be good - what I am saying is our single target dps has been nerf'd 2-3k and our AoE instant damage on adds that need to die within 20-25 seconds is NON EXISTANT. Every other melee class in the game has a 1 button I win for such scenarios. Our Brutal Slash was suppose to solve that and did for all of 7.2 up till 8.0 then it turned back into trash.

Blizzard - if you need help writing scripts based off of an APL so that you can execute generic rotations for both AoE and single target to test your crappy idiot ideas - perhaps you should ask?
Totally agree, Etalla! We need more SINGLE TARGET, less MULTI TARGET. Feral was always king kitty at single target, now it's like... oh well you can pvp if you want to! Good luck finding any raids that will allow you to dps unless you have ridiculous amounts of gear!

I haven't been able to raid on my druid this xpac since I had to drop it for hpala in my guild, they will not allow more than one feral (not that he does bad dps, he has incredible gear and tons of haste gems and parses 95s-99s consistantly).
Now I don't have the best traits by a long shot, but I figured I'd give it a go at testing the new talents.

Best Single Target Build - 17% Haste, Iron Jaws, Gushing Lacerations, Power of the Moon (decided not to change this out to keep it as a control)

Sabertooth
2nd
Balance
4th
SotF
Br/Sl
Bloodtalons

PVP CHANGES:
1) CYCLONE IS BACK =)


I see this in the talent calculator, but i don't see this posted in the patch notes. maybe im overlooking it?
Looking forward to having cyclone again!
Under Resto pvp talent changes it says cyclone has been changed from Resto to Resto/feral
Why add LoTP back as a pvp talent? It's something the entire spec could use everywhere. There are numerous threads about how it would add something to make the spec wanted in M+ and Raids, since balance/resto can do everything a feral does with less hassle when it comes to shapshifting.

Hopefully this is just the first pass and it makes it to baseline.
PVP CHANGES:
1) CYCLONE IS BACK =)
2) It looks like "Protector of the Grove" and "Tooth and Claw" are being combined, and changed a little. New talent "Heart of the Wild": When using Regrowth on an ally the initial heal will always have a critical effect and the cast time of Regrowth will be reduced by 50% for 6 sec. Maximum health while in Bear Form increased by 15% and you gain 5 Rage when attacked in Bear Form. You also learn: Enraged Maul Maul the target for 8% of the target's maximum health in Physical damage.
3) "King of the Jungle": damage increase was changed to healing received, and is at 5% per stack instead of 3%.
4) New talent "Leader of the Pack": While in Cat Form, you increase the melee and ranged critical chance of all allies within 40 yards by 5%. Leader of the Pack also causes affected targets to heal themselves for 4% of their maximum health when they critically hit with a melee or ranged attack. The healing effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec.
5) "Savage Momentum" now reduces the remaining cooldown of Tiger's Fury, Survival Instincts, and Stampeding Roar by 10 sec, instead of resetting Tiger's Fury.


Whoa! Cyclone back is an absolutely huge quality of life change for feral pvp. Thank you, devs, for surprising me.

Also seems like some good survivability buffs. The lotp addition is surprising, but maybe nice for making feral desirable in rbgs?
09/22/2018 04:43 AMPosted by Applesoup
Bloodtalons should be one of the talents replaced. Who the hell thinks a heal in a dps rotation is fun or interesting? How this talent has survived so long truly baffles me. Also, Jagged Wounds removed feels like a significant nerf to me. And 4 finishers now? WTF kind of convoluted bloat are they going for with this spec? Most specs don't have 4 buttons let alone 4 finishers.
They already said in a previous Q&A they were looking into an alternative solution for blood talons. Weather or not something comes of that, we'll have to see. Hoping for the best.
10/23/2018 10:46 PMPosted by Etalla
10/23/2018 10:27 PMPosted by Armanii
Feral feels worse for GCD and energy regen, even with the Savage Roar change. I hope they revert taking away the haste bonus we get.
Not only that - but so far, all talents combo's and all asserite trait combo's results in feral being a solid 2-3k dps lower in ptr compared to live. We went from having the slowest energy regen in the game to.... even slower (how that is possible I don't know).

I can not stress how bad not having any form of execute phase is. Removing rip being auto refreshed under 25% health is the worst change of them all.

Further, the direct AoE damage is still so damn low our instant AoE damage is LAUGHABLE. I'm not saying that AoE should be good - what I am saying is our single target dps has been nerf'd 2-3k and our AoE instant damage on adds that need to die within 20-25 seconds is NON EXISTANT. Every other melee class in the game has a 1 button I win for such scenarios. Our Brutal Slash was suppose to solve that and did for all of 7.2 up till 8.0 then it turned back into trash.

Blizzard - if you need help writing scripts based off of an APL so that you can execute generic rotations for both AoE and single target to test your crappy idiot ideas - perhaps you should ask?


I'm confused on how people are saying we are losing so much dps? I'd be very interested in seeing some proof that isn't just people spouting out things they've heard or tested themselves without taking pics/vids to show others. Also keep in mind that things are being added constantly to 8.1 PTR. A lot of things like the new pvp talents just showed up for the first time.

I just tested it on PTR and compared it to live. Here is the difference:

https://imgur.com/a/VmqPGzW

The top is on PTR with none of my weakauras, keybindings or anything other than Deja stats and Details. As you can see I did on PTR I did 10.5k on the dummy using random talents I thought would feel smooth. On live I did 11.5k, but didn't notice until afterwards that I was still flasked from a previous M+ run. So add in the ability to see actual timings on PTR instead of using the base UI, using keybindings instead of clicking everything, and put on a flask and you'd get insanely close to my live numbers. Given I probably made equal mistakes over the time since I did each test to 5.5mil damage done which was about 8min long. A good portion of the PTR build I was holding 11k and on live I was holding 11.9k All gear was the exact same, with me sitting at 369 ilvl. Keep in mind that on live, with no buffs my druid sims at 12.2k so this ended up being pretty close. My dps would be even higher if I didn't have trash tier azerite traits, but it is what it is.

It's very possible that SR would be a dps gain over SoTF, but I wanted one less thing to click.

The removal of the last 25% haste bonus is not as big of a deal as people make it unless you have some absurd amount of haste. I went from 25.6% on live to 20.9% on PTR.

My average FB crit on live was 39k and my average crit on PTR was 54k. This was with 30% mastery, which I absolutely do not stack on live.

Notes about PTR rotation:
*Having Brutal Slash to add into my single target rotation on PTR felt smooth due to doing more damage at a significantly lower energy cost so I used it any time i had a stack.

Regrowth- Stealth - Berserk + TF - Rake - Rip (hurray new rip mechanic) - Thrash - BrS/Shred to 5 - FB - maintain bleeds. With the new Sabertooth adding 20s to Rip every time you use a 5 cp FB I was able to start off with a low duration Rip and turn it into a long lasting one. I noticed my rip timer would get up to 30s, it is possible that it could have gone higher but I never paid that much attention. This made the need for Li non existent for me as every BT stack was used on FB and Rake with the occasional timing requiring me to burn a stack on BrS due to high duration remaining on Rake while approaching max energy. I almost never had to pool energy for anything other than the 50 for FB.

I'll take the time to add in my weakauras/keybinds and all that to PTR and get a more realistic test done, but this is a solid start to show that, my damage did not go down 2-3k from live to PTR.
10/23/2018 10:46 PMPosted by Etalla
...Not only that - but so far, all talents combo's and all asserite trait combo's results in feral being a solid 2-3k dps lower in ptr compared to live. We went from having the slowest energy regen in the game to.... even slower (how that is possible I don't know).

I can not stress how bad not having any form of execute phase is. Removing rip being auto refreshed under 25% health is the worst change of them all.

Further, the direct AoE damage is still so damn low our instant AoE damage is LAUGHABLE. I'm not saying that AoE should be good - what I am saying is our single target dps has been nerf'd 2-3k and our AoE instant damage on adds that need to die within 20-25 seconds is NON EXISTANT. Every other melee class in the game has a 1 button I win for such scenarios. Our Brutal Slash was suppose to solve that and did for all of 7.2 up till 8.0 then it turned back into trash.

Blizzard - if you need help writing scripts based off of an APL so that you can execute generic rotations for both AoE and single target to test your crappy idiot ideas - perhaps you should ask?


I'm confused on how people are saying we are losing so much dps? I just tested it on PTR and compared it to live. Here is the difference:

https://imgur.com/a/VmqPGzW

The top is on PTR with none of my weakauras, keybindings or anything other than Deja stats and Details. As you can see I did on PTR I did 10.5k on the dummy using random talents I thought would feel smooth. On live I did 11.5k, but didn't notice until afterwards that I was still flasked from a previous M+ run. So add in the ability to see actual timings on PTR instead of using the base UI, using keybindings instead of clicking everything, and put on a flask and you'd get insanely close to my live numbers. Given I probably made equal mistakes over the time since I did each test to 5.5mil damage done which was about 8min long. A good portion of the PTR build I was holding 11k and on live I was holding 11.9k All gear was the exact same, with me sitting at 369 ilvl.

It's very possible that SR would be a dps gain over SoTF, but I wanted one less thing to click.

The removal of the last 25% haste bonus is not as big of a deal as people make it unless you have some absurd amount of haste. I went from 25.6% on live to 20.9% on PTR.

My average FB crit on live was 39k and my average crit on PTR was 54k. This was with 30% mastery, which I absolutely do not stack on live.

Notes about PTR rotation:
*Having Brutal Slash to add into my single target rotation on PTR felt smooth due to doing more damage at a significantly lower energy cost so I used it any time i had a stack.

Regrowth- Stealth - Berserk + TF - Rake - Rip (hurray new rip mechanic) - Thrash - BrS/Shred to 5 - FB - maintain bleeds. With the new Sabertooth adding 20s to Rip every time you use a 5 cp FB I was able to start off with a low duration Rip and turn it into a long lasting one. I noticed my rip timer would get up to 30s, it is possible that it could have gone higher but I never paid that much attention. This made the need for Li non existent for me as every BT stack was used on FB and Rake with the occasional timing requiring me to burn a stack on BrS due to high duration remaining on Rake while approaching max energy. I almost never had to pool energy for anything other than the 50 for FB.


There's some odd things that happen if you take Lunar Inspiration, Savage Roar, and Blood Talons that force you to use a lot of low CP finishers back to back and hardcast a lot....

It also happens with Sabertooth as it causes some energy issues since it pretty much drains you.

The short version: Getting a quick Rip and SR rolling doesn't leave enough time to refresh both at 5CP. You need to do an odd dance that goes 1-2Rip>1-2SR>2-4Rip>1-3SR>Hardcast regrowth>5Rip>5SR.
I find it hard to believe that Li will be able to compete with SbT in single target and won't be used unless you just have to have a ranged combo point generator.

I also just tested SbT with SR together and never once had the issue you were talking about. with SbT you never have to refresh Rip once you get it up.

So far I've tested with SR and Incarn as well and did 10.5k and 10.7k respectively. Retested with SotF and did 11k this time.

Using Li + SotF was a big drop to 9.6k for me.

Li + SR was 9.8k and that one is really weird. This issue with this combo is so much of our damage was moved to FB and you end up using FB the least with this combo due to having to keep up Rip, SR, and try to FB. When this build was the primary one at the beginning of Emerald nightmare in legion it was almost impossible to be able to get an FB in without losing one of your other timers. That also included a 33% JW and a shorter duration SR at the time, so you are able to get a few FB in, but not nearly as many as you can if you just run SbT.

For instance, FB went from being my top damage with the original build posted (SbT, SotF, BrS, BT) to my 4th highest when running both Li and SR. Sadly, in all talent set ups melee was my 2nd highest damage just barely over taking Rip.

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