Weapons don't seem to matter much.

Rogue
09/20/2018 10:59 AMPosted by Sheevah
Just throwing this out there, but it's a bit different in the sense that most people still hold the historical view that the weapons are the most important gear slot for many classes.

Your Main-hand weapon is still the most important gear slot other than maybe azerite for many if not all classes.

Moving into BFA Blizzard made every Attack power scaling ability use weapon dps as part of the damage calculation. Because of this many classes that historically did not care much for weapon dps actually now care more about weapon dps than they ever have.
09/20/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Loktark
Your Main-hand weapon is still the most important gear slot other than maybe azerite for many if not all classes.


Being the most important where all slots are closer still isn't the same as being absolutely crippled by not having access to a suitable weapon like it was once upon a time.

That aside, the clarification was a good one to make, and I appreciate you bringing it up. :)
09/19/2018 11:40 PMPosted by Loktark
Taking a 15% hit to your dps through awful weapons then getting a okay parse in NORMAL means less than nothing. To imply a good weapon is not the most important gear piece is just straight up misinformation.


He has proof. 96% in normal with the glaives should NOT be possible and yet there it is. He used SM to achieve a 75% ranking. Again, should be impossible. I am going to test this for myself. If true, it's the BEST news I have heard in a long time.

Makes sense to me, now that I think about it. I got a 355 weapon on my hunter and my dps went down from the 325 wep.
09/20/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Funpolice
09/20/2018 09:47 AMPosted by Athyra
...

I just simmed your character against mine.

We have about the same ilvl your 359 vs my 357.

Difference is your weapons are much worse than mine... your 350 and 345 vs me using a 380 and 370. Your character sims higher, Lol. 55 ilvl advantage on my weapons means jack !@#$. What did blizz do to this game?


Your ilvl is still lower, so your AP is lower. That's how yellow damage is determined and that's probably 80-85% of your damage or so. Melee will likely contribute more to that overall DPS number for you than him.

He also has about 200 DPS on you in the trinket category, and trinkets are huge.

Simming assumes perfect ability use, thus maximizing that yellow damage. The yellow damage will vary greatly based on skill and ability use in any given situation, but assuming the same uptime on the boss your white damage by nature won't see that fluctuation as it's automated. That being said, your setup gives you more guaranteed damage with the same amount of user error if that makes sense, because of your better weapons.

If anything it shows the system works better that someone with overall better gear isn't getting beaten by someone who just got lucky on two drops out of sixteen.


You are just explaining why he is right. Weapon ilvl doesn't have a meaningful impact on your dps, all things being considered.
The change is meant to level the playing field by protecting against bad weapon drops. This moves the needle closer to ilvl being superior above all else which makes sense, albeit, take away some flavor.

It also helps solve the WW monk issue where weapons were essentially stat sticks. It made it very hard to balance WW because weapon damage based abilities were one of the strongest and most useful tuning knobs

The idea was good and the execution is good if you leave azerite traits out of the equation, but the explanation of the changes wasn't well communicated.
More reasoning as to why Glaives can actually improve your DPS:
It appears dropping your ilvl makes your traits hit harder.
09/20/2018 01:51 PMPosted by Dccw
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/9hbnj4/tested_some_azerite_trait_scaling/

TLDR: Azerite trait dmg scales inversely to your equipped iLVL.

To increase trait dmg, equip the highest iLvL Azerite trait equipment, but the lowest iLvl regular armor and accessories. Weapon iLvL needs further testing done.

Have fun.
TLDR: Azerite trait dmg scales inversely to your equipped iLVL.


"If you're a class with a trait that contributes heavily to your damage in PvP, your best PvP set appears to be a very low item level set with good secondaries, and a socket. Then 3x stack your damage trait and watch the enemy explode!

Side bonus: this also makes you easier to heal, and if you have good defensive traits with flat values (resounding protection), you are an immortal god."

Boy, this is painful to see. :/
So far this thread is nearly two pages of 'missing the point'.

That point being 'But what kind of damage can you do with Thori'dal?'
Did somebody say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]?!
09/20/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Vintorez
So far this thread is nearly two pages of 'missing the point'.

That point being 'But what kind of damage can you do with Thori'dal?'

Deadshot and Sharpened Blades could be used with Thori'dal.
Just need a weapon swap macro for when you're ready to use Pistol Shot/Shuriken Toss.

Honestly, I've been using a weapon swap macro for my glaives, and Venomspitter set since resubbing for BfA.
09/20/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Loktark
Moving into BFA Blizzard made every Attack power scaling ability use weapon dps as part of the damage calculation.
Source? AFAIK Attack Power = Mainstat. Weapons are just higher for some classes because of white damage.
09/20/2018 03:02 PMPosted by Kirvin
09/20/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Loktark
Moving into BFA Blizzard made every Attack power scaling ability use weapon dps as part of the damage calculation.
Source? AFAIK Attack Power = Mainstat. Weapons are just higher for some classes because of white damage.


This is actually detailed in the link I provided earlier:

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281913/battle-for-azeroth-new-formula-for-calculating-ability-damage

What does this mean?
The major point is that while this doesn't really affect anyone from a gameplay perspective, it's a significant change to the things you don't see working under the hood. Most importantly, it seems to be an attempt at uniformity between classes, making the effects and benefit of weapon damage more consistent, creating better balance for everyone.

From a systems design perspective, the most interesting part is that there no longer appears to be a difference between attacks which are based on weapons and those which aren't. Currently, attacks which wouldn't realistically use a weapon, such as Kill Command, Howling Blast, Diseases, Poisons, and Bleeds, only benefit from attack power and ignore weapon damage entirely. Although it would benefit from the increased agility on a weapon upgrade, you wouldn't think that Dragon Roar should realistically benefit from your weapon's damage, but under this new system, it does.

Although that may seem strange, Monks are the most notorious example of why this change is a good thing; although they wear weapons, most attacks are made with their legs and fists, and so for thematic purposes all but a few of their abilities are attack power based, causing savvy players to almost completely ignore weapon ilevel. Although individual class tuning will still dictate absolute gain, by making all abilities use the same formula, every class should value weapon upgrades and ilevel much more comparatively.

There are also a few other considerations;

- By using weapon DPS instead of the weapon's damage range, there's no variance in ability damage; every cast of the ability will deal the same damage (x, x+1), provided no change of de/buffs. Many AP-only scaling abilities, such as Shield Slam do this in Legion already, but others do not.

-Due to common attack speeds across weapon types, there's no longer any need to normalize weapon speed, a feature that's been in the game since Vanilla Patch 1.8.

-The auto-attack damage formula appears to have been changed in Battle for Azeroth as well, although we haven't quite figured out exactly how yet. Currently auto-attacks on the Alpha are contributing an inordinately large amount of damage for many classes, so it could very well change again. In Legion it's:
(Weapon Damage + Attack Power / 3.5 * Weapon Speed) * Damage Multiplier
-Casters are not affected by this change; their spells currently gain no value from weapon damage on live or in the Battle for Azeroth Alpha. Instead, they use Spell Power via Intelligence, which their weapons tend to have a higher than normal amount of, to compensate for ignoring weapon damage.

-With both the Legion and Battle for Azeroth formulas, abilities with offhand components, such as Raging Blow, use the formula separately for each weapon, halfing offhand damage as a final multiplier. This way, both attacks benefit from the combined attack power, but only their own individual weapon damage/DPS.
That sounds dope, I'm going to equip frostmourne on my deathknight!
honestly the changes to jewelry last expansion still pains me. I have a 370 pvp ring from my weekly pvp chest for being challenger. Sims say it's a downgrade to my 340 ring because my 340 rolled with a socket ....LAWL
09/21/2018 08:56 AMPosted by Elyzibeth
honestly the changes to jewelry last expansion still pains me. I have a 370 pvp ring from my weekly pvp chest for being challenger. Sims say it's a downgrade to my 340 ring because my 340 rolled with a socket ....LAWL


I miss the days where you took a specific path for specific items and had a standard BiS list that didn't depend on RNG for not only the drop, but the stats said drop would have.

I could be in the minority, but I strongly dislike the entirety of the Warforged/Titanforged concept.

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