Shamanism and Light Worship

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I'm curious to know some takes on a draenei worshipping/practicing both Shamanism and Light worship.
Could he practice and still have a strong connection to both?
Sure they could, the two are not mutually exclusive of each other. A shaman by definition is a spiritual leader or practitioner. Nobody is saying they cannot speak to the spirits while also worshiping in the light.

Take Tauren for example. Every single class has some form of light worship with their belief in the earth Mother and her two eyes; one of which is the sun which is where the Paladins or Sunwalkers derive their power. Shamanism is not exacly a religion or belief system like worshiping the light. There is no reason a Draenei or perhaps any race could not do both if they wanted.
09/21/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Danession
I'm curious to know some takes on a draenei worshipping/practicing both Shamanism and Light worship.
Could he practice and still have a strong connection to both?


Not a strong connection, because you're either a shaman or a priest/paladin. At some point you either make a strong commitment to one or the other, and become an appropriate class, or something different. Lightforged Draenei can beocme priests or paladins but not shamans, which suggests that major exposure to the Light pretty much closes off the channels needed to be come as attuned to the elements as a shaman needs to be.
09/28/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Drahliana
Lightforged Draenei can beocme priests or paladins but not shamans, which suggests that major exposure to the Light pretty much closes off the channels needed to be come as attuned to the elements as a shaman needs to be.


I would posit that as only one of several possible interpretations. It could be that the Lightforged simply never had an opportunity to try shamanism. A look at the lore behind Draenei Shaman shows that it wasn't practiced on Argus but rather discovered later. Since the Army of Light began on Argus it is likely the disciples the LF practice, with the exception of the Light centric ones which could've been adapted or taught by their Naaru allies, are hold overs from those of the uncorrupted Eredar; which presents another potential reason for no Lightforged Draenei Shaman. This also potentially supports why they have no Monks.
09/28/2018 10:00 PMPosted by Phontine
09/28/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Drahliana
Lightforged Draenei can beocme priests or paladins but not shamans, which suggests that major exposure to the Light pretty much closes off the channels needed to be come as attuned to the elements as a shaman needs to be.


I would posit that as only one of several possible interpretations. It could be that the Lightforged simply never had an opportunity to try shamanism. A look at the lore behind Draenei Shaman shows that it wasn't practiced on Argus but rather discovered later. Since the Army of Light began on Argus it is likely the disciples the LF practice, with the exception of the Light centric ones which could've been adapted or taught by their Naaru allies, are hold overs from those of the uncorrupted Eredar; which presents another potential reason for no Lightforged Draenei Shaman. This also potentially supports why they have no Monks.


I would still maintain that they are very opposite viewpoints. Worship of the Light means venerating a rather abstract power, that's removed from the normal experience, whereas a shamanistic viewpoint is literally down to Earth. To a Shaman, her power is literally all around her, the spirits of the elements there to be beckoned and negotiated with. Same reason you don't see a lot of Jewish or Christian shamanism going on in the real world.
I remember reading somewhere that Velen suspects Elune is actually a Na'aru (much to the displeasure of the Night Elves). This is 100% speculation so I would do some more research before moving forward with the idea, but if your Draenei follows a Na'aru with a focus on nature you might have an opening to use both.

However, this is an edge case. You are going to have a hard time justifying both in my opinion.
You could go with Shaman in the real life sense rather than the game mechanics sense.

Because art mimics life, you will find plenty of entoptic and shamanic symbolism in World of Warcraft, to the point I wrote a paper on it for my art history class and got an A.

So the theories introduced to me through said professor, who is also the head curator of a museum, was the idea that the earliest art in humanity tied to shamanism.

People took photos of cave paintings found in France and showed them to people from primary cultures (aboriginals, people who still live in tribes in remote areas of the world, etc). Almost universally the people identified the subjects as a "shaman."

The real life shaman cycle has some core elements in common across cultures, though not all people experience all steps:
Often Entoptic Phenomenon, seeing optical oddities.

An altered state of conciousness in which those abstract hallucinations take non-abstract forms.

"Dying" in the hallucination sometimes.

Traveling through vortex to a different plane above or below. (Tree, tunnel, up a mountain, so on.)

Becoming one with a creature of power and ganing knowledge. (At-one-ment.)

Waking (coming back to life after "death").

It is believed that this is both the origin of the hero's journey but also has odd paralells to the stories of Gilgamesh, Buddha, and Jesus.

It is believed that shaman became the elders and wise men of the tribes. They were the first artists, documenting their spiritual journies for others. They'd crawl deep into caves to document their experiences. Others would go in and touch it as a way to feel connection to it or something like that. Hence bunches of handprints on cave paintings.

They were our original artists, spiritual leaders, doctors, and kings. People like Van Gogh probably had similar experiences. Perry Smith, a murderer with schizophrenia featured in Truman Capote's true crime novel "In Cold Blood" has a dream/trance where he experiences something reeeally similar to this in the novel.

People today, even ones who aren't native/primary cultures can experience these experiences naturally. Others with drugs, some people experience it and talk about it when they have had general anesthesia then see a light at the end of the tunnel. It's something about how our brains are wired.

Why do I think it's ok to use this in World of Warcraft? The symbolism is there, down to LITERAL heavens and underworlds we travel through vortexes to reach. There's lattice structures and other entoptic symbolism in wow art, along with moon goddess symbols and sun god symbols. There's even vortexes (spirals) all over the place. If you took a drink every time you saw a lattice or spiral in Silvermoon you'd probably be in the hospital for liver damage.

On top of that, in game the Shaman class hall is... Right next to a vortex to an underworld. There's also the rebirth thing, and so on.

It's possible the art and all of it in wow was just a serendipitous coincidence but honestly I side-eye at the Shaman hall. I think someone at Blizzard has done their homework and knew exactly what they were doing.

*Looks at the pyramid in Nazmir which aescends to the heavens and has a passage that descends to an underworld. Looks at the reader. Deadpans.*

I think a Lightforged Draenei or an elf who has super overindulged to the point of physiological signs of alterations (elves are the Eevees of WOW, they change based on whatever magic they just rolled in) may be in a position where their closeness to the light may result in altered states of conciousness and that shaman experience. Others might be capable too.

Also we kinda have light elementals in the priest campaign.

It's possible to use the light and be a shaman in the traditional sense rather than Mana tide totem and frost shock.

This concludes my ramble on shamanism. One of my paladin alts who is a shaman in this way and paints his hallucinations says hi.
Nobundo's story "Unbroken" is really what you want to be looking at for this subject.

Nobundo as a Broken was cutoff from the Light due to the Fel contaminations. He embraced Shamanism and felt that he did not forsake the Light based on an understanding the Shamanist arts are an aspect of the Light itself.

Nobundo will tell you this with the caveat that some Draenei still don't agree and think him a heretic, but such is life.
10/06/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Benezet
Nobundo's story "Unbroken" is really what you want to be looking at for this subject.

Nobundo as a Broken was cutoff from the Light due to the Fel contaminations. He embraced Shamanism and felt that he did not forsake the Light based on an understanding the Shamanist arts are an aspect of the Light itself.

Nobundo will tell you this with the caveat that some Draenei still don't agree and think him a heretic, but such is life.


Nobundo's ability to embrace Shamanism after being cut off from the Light by Fel pretty much is the proof that there is no connection between the two.
Cite your countersource.
10/08/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Drahliana
Nobundo's ability to embrace Shamanism after being cut off from the Light by Fel pretty much is the proof that there is no connection between the two.
Med'an is still canon.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Med%27an#Canonicity

Med'an used both the Light and shamanism.
10/08/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Cannibal
10/08/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Drahliana
Nobundo's ability to embrace Shamanism after being cut off from the Light by Fel pretty much is the proof that there is no connection between the two.
Med'an is still canon.

Cannibal that's Blasphemy!

That Mary-sue has no place in my lore. Go wash your keyboard with strong bacterial soap and maybe some bleach to get that stain out. Right now mister... March!

Honestly I am surprised this topic is still going. There will be conflicting ideals regarding what is true and what isn't. The Orcs unknowingly worshiping a Naru or if Elune is one herself being examples.

Still as I've described above and Zan having gone into more detail as well, and even the most recent example states... one can do both without conflicting(oh I need to wash my own mind and keyboard now). The Light and Shamanism may not be the same in some peoples eyes and may be in others, but at least they are not total opposites like Light and Shadow.
I can't wait for someone to find out that Troll warlocks practice Fel Magic, Elemental Fire Magic, Void Magic, and are divinely empowered by nature spirits.
10/09/2018 04:18 PMPosted by Yokumba
I can't wait for someone to find out that Troll warlocks practice Fel Magic, Elemental Fire Magic, Void Magic, and are divinely empowered by nature spirits.
Or how Witch Doctor NPCs utilize literally every category of magic.
10/09/2018 04:23 PMPosted by Cannibal
Or how Witch Doctor NPCs utilize literally every category of magic.
There are no where close to enough interrupts for those NPCs >.>
10/08/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Cannibal
10/08/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Drahliana
Nobundo's ability to embrace Shamanism after being cut off from the Light by Fel pretty much is the proof that there is no connection between the two.
Med'an is still canon.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Med%27an#Canonicity

Med'an used both the Light and shamanism.


You won't fine anyone at Blizzard who will admit to Me'Dan's ever having existed. So he's not a good argument for ANYTHING but as a deomonstration of how not to build a story character.
10/09/2018 05:25 PMPosted by Drahliana
You won't fine anyone at Blizzard who will admit to Me'Dan's ever having existed. So he's not a good argument for ANYTHING but as a deomonstration of how not to build a story character.
Alex Afrasiabi, the Lead World Designer and Creative Director for World of Warcraft, straight up said Med'an is still canon, and that only his Guardianship was retconned.

So yes, you will find plenty of people at Blizzard who will tell you Med'an existed and still does exist within the lore.

https://twitter.com/Alex_Afrasiabi/status/795303852924731392

Please stop spreading misinformation.

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