Azerite - Worst Itemization in WoW's History

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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The fact that azerite respec costs exists just to restrict gameplay, and tell you how to play is a complete joke. Add on that they are defending it, and it starts to become pathetic.

I know they paid attention to the world race. Did they really sit there and see some of those players azerite respeccing costs surpass 300k , and thought this is good design?

I have never been someone that has had a ton of gold, and it has never affected my ability to raid or pvp in this game. But, having to pay 15k almost every day to change traits and play these specs optimally is becoming an increasing burden as someone who doesn't have just as much time to farm gold as I do to raid/mythic+.

All this talk about class fantasy last xpac, and all I want to do is be able to play every spec of my class and blizzard is the only thing making it difficult to do so, for absolutely no reason at all.
Translation of Lore's response, "We aren't going to do anything."

Look it's obvious they aren't willing to work hard anymore. Mediocre and lackluster is the best you can hope for.

If you want 2 specs of the same class you'll be required to develop 2 characters for it to be feasible.

It's just so sad and frustrating that wow ended up like it did.

Who wants to gamble that the home demo version of wow classic won't even run. Perhaps they'd be better off just making a youtube of it so they won't be embarrassed when it doesn't operate. If your buying a virtual ticket to attempt to try the 'home demo version' don't be too disappointed when it doesn't work.
09/26/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Datspirit
The fact that azerite respec costs exists just to restrict gameplay, and tell you how to play is a complete joke. Add on that they are defending it, and it starts to become pathetic.

I know they paid attention to the world race. Did they really sit there and see some of those players azerite respeccing costs surpass 300k , and thought this is good design.


"We want you to carry multiple sets of gear that we want to be impossible to farm"

Uhh RIP hybrid classes


I mentioned the imbalance between traits before, but just to expand on that: that's why we've focused so much effort into tuning Azerite traits over the past few weeks. With this most recent round of tuning, we think we've gotten most of the really egregious outliers dialed in, but please let us know if there are any you still feel are so good that they're worth huge sacrifices in terms of item level.

To put it another way: if one trait is far and away the best compared to every other option, sure, we should probably do something about that, but we don't expect that to take the form of a widespread tuning pass going forward.

[/quote]

I am terribly disappointed with this thought process of let us know if there are still any traits worth going for specifically so we can nerf them into the ground instead of just bringing other traits up to par so that it doesn't unbalance class performance.
09/26/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Kalaryia
09/26/2018 09:55 PMPosted by Rixven
...
Did you even read the OP vs the responses?

Or did you just quote out of context to be contrarian?

Go suckle at the blizz dev teat mate.


Sure did.

Also I'm glad to see the only other option besides "be a frothing-at-the-mouth-hyperbolic-forum-whiner" is "be a teat-sucking Blizzard shill". I was previously unaware. Thanks for informing me!


09/26/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Kalaryia
09/26/2018 09:55 PMPosted by Rixven
...
Did you even read the OP vs the responses?

Or did you just quote out of context to be contrarian?

Go suckle at the blizz dev teat mate.


Sure did.

Also I'm glad to see the only other option besides "be a frothing-at-the-mouth-hyperbolic-forum-whiner" is "be a teat-sucking Blizzard shill". I was previously unaware. Thanks for informing me!


Yeah you are just a contrarian. Anyone with any actual knowledge of the game knows Azerite is poor and a failing system.
09/26/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Kalaryia
He seriously just said the point of the reforging costs is because they DON'T want you reforging on the regular


The reforging system was planned, developed, and released in the game. The blue post here seems to suggest that players exploring their Azerite traits is a problem, or burden. Some act of heresy that should be shunned.

I'm gonna go with this is a planned BS response. He lied to your face. The price of reforging is that high because they know competitive players will get out their wallets to remain competitive. They know completionists will get out their wallets to change to the highest simming traits every week the numbers are changed. They know the guy who's having a blast on friday night will pick up that third piece of gear and pay the respect fee to try out a 3 stack of trait X.

The thing about these types of blue responses is, they have really never changed. I think I've just gotten to the point where I'm tired of reading them. They will use the same reasoning to justify realm transfer/character cosmetic pricing. While a categorically different subject, the truth is the same.

The prices are the way they are, because they know players will pay them. Even if that means opening up the cash shop. Enjoy your 13h mission reward of 100G and 36G daily. The goal here is to drive a higher % of players towards the cash shop, that's it.

Next azerite reforge, 5,000g.
Welp Lore, that response solidifies (yet again) I made the right choice not to buy the expac and stop my sub. I keep wanting to root for you guys to turn the ship around based on SO MUCH of my time spent in game but Blizzard is making that really, really hard these days. Who'd have thought (for me anyway) that the much ballyhooed and prophesied-by-the-likes-of-GD 'WoW killer' ... would be Blizzard itself?

Whoever fed you that line of logic you are passing to us is clearly way out of touch with what the current and ex-playerbase (raises hand) is looking for in WoW. I have to wonder where you ant-farm philosophy is coming from as of late? Is it really all just about /time played metric extension? Because if so, you are alienating more and more (formerly) long-term players with these design decisions.

And with respect to Azerite specifically, I interpret the response to be (pardon the paraphrase)- " you can expect trait tuning, but all the other flaws aren't really going to change". Is this just lack of bandwidth that explains the doubling-down on bad? Is it going to take another 50% sub drop for you guys to do something drastic like the original Pathfinder decision??
09/26/2018 10:01 PMPosted by Rixven
09/26/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Kalaryia
...

Sure did.

Also I'm glad to see the only other option besides "be a frothing-at-the-mouth-hyperbolic-forum-whiner" is "be a teat-sucking Blizzard shill". I was previously unaware. Thanks for informing me!


09/26/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Kalaryia
...

Sure did.

Also I'm glad to see the only other option besides "be a frothing-at-the-mouth-hyperbolic-forum-whiner" is "be a teat-sucking Blizzard shill". I was previously unaware. Thanks for informing me!


Yeah you are just a contrarian. Anyone with any actual knowledge of the game knows Azerite is poor and a failing system.


Does it have issues? Sure. But it seems like as soon as a past expansion is over, people put on their rose tinted glasses and forget that, yes, there was just as much endless whining and complaining on the forums in those expansions too. These days everyone is waxing romantic about how great Legion was. Hey, protip: people were frothing at the mouth on the forums at about this point in Legion too.

The forums will always be a clown fiesta of complaining.
09/26/2018 09:39 PMPosted by Bearpunch
09/26/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Lore
Maybe the current system isn't achieving that, but if it isn't, we're likely to become MORE restrictive on reforging, not less.


Reading this has to be a low point in the game's history.

A hallmark of bad game design is punishing players for not using a system in the way you envisioned it rather than actually make an intuitive and compelling one that engages players to use it correctly.

Blizzard needs to step back and do some soul searching. The new mantra of handling criticism with repeated responses of "It's supposed to feel bad" is not sustainable.


If I didn't know better I would think they are intentionally tanking the game. Threatening your customer with making punishing systems worse is the absolute worst thing you can do in this situation.

This is the game dev equivalent of "Shut up or I'll turn this car around and no one's going to Disney Land"
09/26/2018 10:04 PMPosted by Hammerator
09/26/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Kalaryia
He seriously just said the point of the reforging costs is because they DON'T want you reforging on the regular


The reforging system was planned, developed, and released in the game. The blue post here seems to suggest that players exploring their Azerite traits is a problem, or burden. Some act of heresy that should be shunned.

I'm gonna go with this is a planned BS response. He lied to your face. The price of reforging is that high because they know competitive players will get out their wallets to remain competitive. They know completionists will get out their wallets to change to the highest simming traits every week the numbers are changed. They know the guy who's having a blast on friday night will pick up that third piece of gear and pay the respect fee to try out a 3 stack of trait X.

The thing about these types of blue responses is, they have really never changed. I think I've just gotten to the point where I'm tired of reading them. They will use the same reasoning to justify realm transfer/character cosmetic pricing. While a categorically different subject, the truth is the same.

The prices are the way they are, because they know players will pay them. Even if that means opening up the cash shop. Enjoy your 13h mission reward of 100G and 36G daily.

Next azerite reforge, 5,000g.

If it makes you feel any better, 5000g reforge is cheap. You can look forward to your 19th reforge costing 1,300,000g.

And heaven forbid you might need a 22nd reforge? Sorry you can't, that costs 10.5 million gold, which is more than the gold cap.

Seems good.
09/26/2018 10:04 PMPosted by Hammerator
09/26/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Kalaryia
He seriously just said the point of the reforging costs is because they DON'T want you reforging on the regular


The reforging system was planned, developed, and released in the game. The blue post here seems to suggest that players exploring their Azerite traits is a problem, or burden. Some act of heresy that should be shunned.

I'm gonna go with this is a planned BS response. He lied to your face. The price of reforging is that high because they know competitive players will get out their wallets to remain competitive. They know completionists will get out their wallets to change to the highest simming traits every week the numbers are changed. They know the guy who's having a blast on friday night will pick up that third piece of gear and pay the respect fee to try out a 3 stack of trait X.

The thing about these types of blue responses is, they have really never changed. I think I've just gotten to the point where I'm tired of reading them. They will use the same reasoning to justify realm transfer/character cosmetic pricing. While a categorically different subject, the truth is the same.

The prices are the way they are, because they know players will pay them. Even if that means opening up the cash shop. Enjoy your 13h mission reward of 100G and 36G daily.

Next azerite reforge, 5,000g.


He literally said the reforging system is in place to allow for things like, say, switching your role in your raid group. It is NOT designed to allow you to hearth to freakin' Boralus between every boss to respec your gear. Because YES... YES, if there was no massively scaling gold cost, people WOULD hearth to Boralus between every boss to do just that. And then they would come to the forum to complain about the burden of hearthing and demand a new mount or engineering contraption to allow them to respec their gear inside the raid.

So here's a theoretical. You want to allow people to respec their gear for things like switching their role in their raid group but do NOT want people constantly min-maxing their traits every 5 seconds from one pull to the next. How do you accomplish this?
09/26/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Lore
The point about traits being "useless and uninteresting" is interesting considering that you also make the point of "every gear change requires simming." These two points are kind of at odds with each other.
They are not. Traits are useless and uninteresing, because they don't alter your rotation. They are counter-intuitive, because very often the generic traits are better than the spec specific ones. I am a casual...I don't use simcraft, therefore I read "oh, my Judgment is going to make more damage, sounds great!" Unfortunately that is one of the worse traits a ret can get. I have to go for Rezan's Fury, Dagger in the Back or Champion of Azeroth. Why do the specific traits for DPS even exist?
09/26/2018 10:04 PMPosted by Hammerator
I'm gonna go with this is a planned BS response. He lied to your face. The price of reforging is that high because they know competitive players will get out their wallets to remain competitive. They know completionists will get out their wallets to change to the highest simming traits every week the numbers are changed. They know the guy who's having a blast on friday night will pick up that third piece of gear and pay the respect fee to try out a 3 stack of trait X.


I'm happy to see I'm not the only one that can see through their bs.
Also if you don't want people to reforge how about dropping azerite. Normal and heroic every week, M+ done each week, dungeon event and world bosses. Not one azerite above 340.

So you don't want us reforging but you also don't want to drop azerite gear. I'm feeling ripped off activision.
09/26/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Lore

And finally, regarding the tuning passes: like I mentioned, we think we've got most of the major outliers dialed in to an acceptable level at this point. There's likely to still be some adjustments here and there, but we don't believe we're going to need another big wave of Azerite trait tuning like you've seen over the last few weeks. To put it another way: if one trait is far and away the best compared to every other option, sure, we should probably do something about that, but we don't expect that to take the form of a widespread tuning pass going forward.


Every tuning pass/change to azerite should reset the cost of reforging. You should not be punishing people for your poor design choices that need to be fixed.

Secondly, changes being inconsequential to classes by changing the wrong parts of things are even more of a slap in the face by this post.
09/26/2018 10:04 PMPosted by Hammerator
I'm gonna go with this is a planned BS response. He lied to your face. The price of reforging is that high because they know competitive players will get out their wallets to remain competitive. They know completionists will get out their wallets to change to the highest simming traits every week the numbers are changed. They know the guy who's having a blast on friday night will pick up that third piece of gear and pay the respect fee to try out a 3 stack of trait X.


I'm happy to see I'm not the only one that can see through their bs.
Also if you don't want people to reforge how about dropping azerite. Normal and heroic every week, M+ done each week, dungeon event and world bosses. Not one azerite above 340.

So you don't want us refording but you also don't want to drop azerite gear. I'm feeling ripped off activision.


I can see through you too, shocker.

Your response comes from the following assumption:

I should be able to immediately have access to the most optimal setup for all situations at all times.

This is the same attitude that led to them banning gear-swaps inside M+ dungeons.

See, you say that if you don't immediately have all the best Azerite gear you want, it means they want you to be constantly reforging without considering the more logical answer: they don't expect you to always be able to have everything exactly optimized at all times for all situations.
09/26/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Lore

I think we agree that re-farming traits doesn't feel great. I don't have a solve for that issue to share today, and to be completely transparent it may be something we simply have to accept as a downside to the system for other reasons. But we agree it can be a bit of a downer.

[/quote]

This is about the most unsympathetic lie that could be stated.

Let me break it down better for you. In Legion, you gave many players Artifact Power as rewards. This went into the weapon of our choice. But at the end of the expansion you reached in to our weapons and stole all of that AP we earned out of the weapon and destroyed their abilities that you had given us as part of the experience that is Legion. New characters made now, automatically start off with the story of needing to build our weapons strength but at the same time we have already sacrificed our power and its ability as soon as we first hold the weapon.

This means that one of the largest sums of player time was rewarded with something you stole.

Do not get me wrong. I am not saying the story and design of the game play makes sense. But.... You still stole the reward that you gave players.

Now, we are farming Artifact Power again. We can already tell that at the end of the expansion you will steal that away also. Otherwise we will never heal the wound in Azeroth.

But that does not detract that you are awarding players ultimately with a reward you know you will be taking back.

You could simply lower the cost of more new items trait requirements to the same as the piece before it. Easy, done deal. You can obviously see that there are clear improvements to using traits. But, you have completely failed to actually give a really good explanation of why you need to make players re-earn traits. There isn't a good reason for the story. There isn't a good reason for the experience. There isn't a good reason.

So clearly, higher Item Level drops are not worth wearing. Which means, if you do not have the traits available to use. You are better off stashing it into the bank and forgetting about it.

Just like Island Expeditions that are unrewarding. Once you hit exalted with your faction the only reward you can expect to get from it is one Blizzard will steal back. Artifact Power and useless dubloons. Nothing else has ever dropped. Not even after the supposed drop rate increase.

There really isn't any fun in doing content that rewards you with something you know will get stolen.
God I wish I could downvote blueposts, this Is depressing to read constantly on wowhead news.
09/26/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Lore

Regarding targeting specific traits: I think we've said this a few times now, but just to reiterate, we believe that's merely a symptom of the imbalance between traits. Ideally, the gap between them isn't so large that you feel it would be hugely beneficial to grind out the perfect set.

[/quote]

In a world where you actually balance traits quick, that might be true.

But that it is all in your fantasy.

It's done at glacial speed with furtive useless shifts so we end up paying gold for your fantasy.

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