I feel so freaking sorry for the Shamans out there

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09/14/2018 10:26 PMPosted by Shinsplit
Come on guys, I mean I want to feel bad for you and all.

But it’s been a downhill slope for a decade with shamans. You’ve had so much time to reroll.

That's why I did, many years ago.

Switched my PVP main to a mage in BC, switched overall main to DK and then druid in Wrath, played druid until BFA, trying to main mage again but casters just do not feel good in modern WoW (even though frost mage is plenty good overall, it's frustrating a lot of the time) and I'm debating switching to something else.

(I do want to level a dark iron dwarf monk, but that won't be happening for probably two to three months, since my alliance character is only 118.)
09/14/2018 10:40 PMPosted by Revlol
What he said was accurate, class balance is delicate, you can't just buff the !@#$ out of something and expect that to fix it.

Classes require specific abilities tuned, based on what % of output they provide, along with situation variables.

Take demo.

It's the lowest ST in the game, it doesn't need some big overall damage buff, it needs core abilities altered, and specifically tuned.

Yes, shaman have issues, but it's not a simple bandaid fix that people want to believe.

Warlocks, on the warlock side of the forums, understand this, and we bring up very specific problems, with very detailed solutions, and even accounting for how certain abilities would scale based on them.

Shaman should do the same, not just give generic "ME WANT MOAR DAMAGE GR" rubbish.

Um... Were you aware that one of the top theorycrafters for shamans DID precisely what you refer to in your warlock example? Were you aware that after months and months of trying to get the class fixed all throughout alpha and beta, only to be ignored, has quit WoW?
Where are you guys getting your numbers from? Simcraft?

From uldir parses it appears the difference between top DPS and shamans is less than 3k on mythic, normal and LFR and less than 2k on heroic. Shaman is not at the bottom in any difficulty.
They could just increase our LB and LvB dmg by 30% and consider us tuned
09/14/2018 11:59 PMPosted by Kneeslapper
They could just increase our LB and LvB dmg by 30% and consider us tuned

It'd be nice to be able to cast Lightning on the move again, and have Tremor Totem with the duration more like we used to have
Elemental is probably the most clunky unfinished spec that needs a rework. You know how awkward it feels having to wait gcd to cast earth shock? And another gcd to cast lava? Horrible. Those two spells make the spec. Now heres another problem. Lightning bolt hits for like 1.5k to 2k. And lava hits for maybe 6-7. Ontop of that maelstrom build up is soooo tedious because its slow. I can go on and on.
Shamans and shadow priests in particular were made around leigondaries. They need a complete rework and talents need to be reorganised or completley redone.
09/14/2018 11:48 PMPosted by Dklolqt
Where are you guys getting your numbers from? Simcraft?

From uldir parses it appears the difference between top DPS and shamans is less than 3k on mythic, normal and LFR and less than 2k on heroic. Shaman is not at the bottom in any difficulty.

3k is a 20% dps difference.
Even leveling as Ele is off.

Ele's spells hit roughly 65% as hard as the same spells cast in Resto, and I guess Maelstrom is supposed to make up for that. Problem is, if Earth Shock doesn't crit (even with full heirlooms I only have a 20% crit chance) then the damage is basically the same over time. I'm trading out killing these two mobs slower so I can kill the third in fewer hits. If I'm truly fortunate and Earth Shock crits, it almost kills a normal mob my level.

I can kill most mobs as Resto in five casts, sometimes four. Ele needs about seven depending on crit luck, and four when Earth Shock is available and doesn't crit.

AoE is where I've noticed Ele is objectively better at dealing damage than Resto, especially if the tank feels like pulling ten+ mobs every pull. The extra Chain Lightning hits and chance for it to cast twice, along with Earthquake, make me feel powerful for mass AoE encounters.

But out in the world I can't handle more than two mobs at once.

Mobility is something that they don't want Ele to have, fine, whatever. The solution to that problem again lies in Resto with Spirit Walker's Grace. Frost Shock exists, but it's even weaker than Lightning Bolt and generates no Maelstrom so the GCD spent on it is better used on Ghost Wolf to reposition faster.

So in terms of leveling and open world content, as well as dungeons with limited trash pulls, Resto is harder to kill, deals more damage, has more movement options, and is better able to handle unexpected adds than Ele.

For dungeons, I'm reliant on the tank to pull more than he should in order for me to shine. That doesn't always go well, and is becoming more and more rare as I level.

That means to me that the niche Ele Shaman are designed to fill is "massive clustered AoE". That kind of pull tends to kill tanks faster than a group can burn down unless they're overgeared, at which point the niche isn't important or particularly useful. And outside of that niche, Resto is the better choice for dealing ranged damage because it's more consistent with the same basic gameplay.

At least I have a guild to raid with that's OK with not pushing content too hard.
As someone with elemental as their favorite alt, and someone who played ele to 2100 2 weeks after picking it up and learning it, and putting a lot of time into it for the sake of learning how to play it well - his answers bothered me so much.

I so desperately wish to love my elemental shaman, but I refuse to touch it till the rotation and class itself receives the necessary reworks.
I just love how our options are to invest time into a gimped class that even if buffed would still be wonky to play, reroll to something we prob won’t enjoy either, or quit.

Even if we do decide to tough it out there is no guarantees the changes being made to shaman will even be better than its current state. It really is just a messed up situation and blizz won’t even give us any insight as to what direction they are gonna take with us or a eta. Just that they are aiming for 8.1 whenever that is, and seeing as how they missed launch I won’t get my hopes up waiting
I will play my Shaman to the end.

My Journey started as an Orc Shaman. I loved the class but felt like I hated something by lvl 20. I found out it was Orcs I hated and made this Tauren and never looked back.

I have gone through the hoops of heavy casual to a heavy raider (maybe not highest content but try to push what I can).

On DPS charts I will attempt to be #1 on every single fight. I am glad if I am the bottom of DPS as it means others were trying at least hard enough to do the DPS I am attempting to do at my best.

Through this journey and devotion to Shaman, never do I care if I am at the bottom or suffering, I simply do the most with what I got to help my team/Friends. However, the play style has since dwindled from what I have experienced. Talent choices continuously seem to be either cookie cutter or less effective with each expansion.

I hope 8.1 brings changes, if not DPS changes then just enough to make me more useful. After dealing with an extremely fake person today from Emerald Dream and the ongoing Shaman struggle there better be a light at the end of his tunnel.
But they gave us T R E M O R T O T E M back!
09/14/2018 05:47 PMPosted by Rheusaw
09/14/2018 05:45 PMPosted by Madfetus

What he said.

I either reroll and do everything again or unsub. I don't enjoy redoing content.

The three best shaman specs are:

Reroll hunter
Reroll demon hunter
Reroll priest

My favorite shaman specs tbh fam
09/14/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Bubblybarn
Here is a response from a CM on shaman:
"It's a very delicate balance to nail, but the goal is to create an environment where you can feel awesome when your ideal situations arise but still contribute otherwise."

I really want to understand how "it's a really delicate balance" to balance a class hitting the bottom of the DPS chart. Theres over 6k dps difference between Shaman and affli. Why is it so damn "delicate" to give small buff when you know there's a 6k DPS DIFFERENCE, can't you just give Lighning bolt a way to be cast while moving like in MOP ?

"oh no we can't give Shaman or Shadow or Feral too much because they would be mid tier, we don't want that"

I have yet to see anywhere my feral is awesome this expansion. Single target with 340 plus gear is still taking twice as long as my rogue and my aoe certainly isn't anything to brag about. I guess once they fix those azerite traits so you don't have to get the gear from mythic dungeons (which you can't do), in order to get dps maybe it will be better.
they got to fix this because im not lvling !@#$ else , my game time end soon , ima just pop in when 8.1 hits but its just not enjoyable for me right now.
09/15/2018 01:52 AMPosted by Borlax
But they gave us T R E M O R T O T E M back!
man im not gonna like i probable use that thing like 2 or 3 times in pve , no way u can predict fear in pvp .
There's a reason the lead Shaman player in the entire community left the game.
09/15/2018 02:10 AMPosted by Angrysocks
There's a reason the lead Shaman player in the entire community left the game.

But I never left. B)))))))))))))))))))
What you have to accept is that if you choose a jack of all trades class mine, you are going to be able to do a lot of things (which is what I need) but you will often be master of none.

Take druids for instance, they might do well with Boomkins, but in my humble opinion...

Feral druids are AWFUL and don't want them in my raids unless it's a carry.
It’ll be fixed in alpha
It’ll be fixed in beta
It’ll be fixed in patches
It’ll be fixed in the next expansion
It’ll be fixed in WoW 2
It’ll be fixed in Warcraft 4
It’ll be fixed in 2025
It’ll be fixed? Who said we were fixing it?

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