Prot warriors in 8.1?

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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11/11/2018 08:48 AMPosted by Abombanation
11/10/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Zendhal
Priests, shamans and warlocks got their blue posts...

Can we break this radio silence Blizz please ?


Gonna suck when 8.1 goes live and we are still making threads to fix Prot warriors. Some clear communication on massive planned changes would be nice. The silence with nothing great coming is hard to take.


Abomb - posting here to ask for (or remind you) about the prot pvp guide you were going to write.
11/11/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Gormog
11/11/2018 08:48 AMPosted by Abombanation
...

Gonna suck when 8.1 goes live and we are still making threads to fix Prot warriors. Some clear communication on massive planned changes would be nice. The silence with nothing great coming is hard to take.


Abomb - posting here to ask for (or remind you) about the prot pvp guide you were going to write.


Let me do one for you.

1) Press log out

2) Make a disc priest

3) Enjoy being a better tank, a healer, and a decent DPS all in one slick package

'Tis a sad day when plate classes (paladin not withstanding) are less survivable than freaking cloth . . .
Lina, only paladin not withstanding, at 120 you are posting on a DK, blood is totally op at the moment and you mentioned paladins, just wow. multiple classes need rework, guardian druids, locks, shammys, prot warriors and the list goes on.
11/11/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Gormog
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Gonna suck when 8.1 goes live and we are still making threads to fix Prot warriors. Some clear communication on massive planned changes would be nice. The silence with nothing great coming is hard to take.


Abomb - posting here to ask for (or remind you) about the prot pvp guide you were going to write.


Its hard to write guides when the Devs don't care and no PvP vendors.

Probably in a week or 3 ill have 2 builds worth talking about.

The most interesting builds require the right traits and tons of secondaries. Which means 8.1 for most people to get Heart to 30+ and enough gear sockets.
11/12/2018 06:44 AMPosted by Nightsage
Lina, only paladin not withstanding, at 120 you are posting on a DK, blood is totally op at the moment and you mentioned paladins, just wow. multiple classes need rework, guardian druids, locks, shammys, prot warriors and the list goes on.


My point was about PvP and how plate armor doesn't do anything in PvP any more. It used to legit make you live longer than f. example priests or rogues (not in the least because of how plate also had more stamina than other armor types), but now warriors are arguably the most paper of all the classes in PvP, simply because of how active defenses / self-heals >>> passive defenses in modern PvP (and to an extent pve since like 80% of everything is magic or unblockabkle).

I pointed at paladins because they have heals & bubble in all specs, arguably most powerful active defensives in the game; I'm not saying paladins or other classes don't have issues. Merely pointing out how the whole thing with 'you get self heals, you get higher armor' is nowhere near a fair trade in modern WoW.

(Especially considering disc priests who's passive damage reduction puts them on par with plate with none of the repair costs, AND against magic damage too ... because class balance ??? )
11/12/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Lina
My point was about PvP and how plate armor doesn't do anything in PvP any more. It used to legit make you live longer than f. example priests or rogues (not in the least because of how plate also had more stamina than other armor types), but now warriors are arguably the most paper of all the classes in PvP, simply because of how active defenses / self-heals >>> passive defenses in modern PvP (and to an extent pve since like 80% of everything is magic or unblockabkle).


This is 100% accurate and very frustrating. Which is why I miss Dstance, Soften Blows, Shield Barrier, Second wind and actual ways to recover HP. If you don't have a % passive mitigation you are going to die fast. Armor does nothing and wish they would stop buffing something that doesn't help at all.

I rather just have a way to heal.
And they nerf prot on the PTR
Increasing the CD on IP to 1 second from 0.5 seconds
They better have something next week, cause i dont think we will see anything after that with all the holidays coming up.
previous build: IP off GCD

this build: IP back on GCD

No note-worthy changes beyond that.

The rumors about best blizz devs being off making bad Clash of Clans ripoff with a bunch of chinese boys seem increasingly more likely. <_<
Yeah I noticed they changed IP from .5 second cooldown to a 1 second cooldown. So much for those warrior changes. effectively we have no changes now. They really don't know what the hell to do with warrior to make it more even with the other tanks. I'm gonna guess blocking physical ranged attacks was a bug and they "fixed" that too.
09/18/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Lina
Shamans got a blue; Here's to hoping Warriors get one.

I won't make a massive OP, there's been tomes written on how broken prot was since earliest stages of BfA beta. It's common knowledge that warriors make up for under 5% of all tank representation after 2 weeks of Uldir, in ALL types of content;

They're weak, they lack a niche, their kit has been massively hurt by the GCD change, and they need a lot of love to become viable. Like. Without exaggeration, it's easier to heal a shadow priest who pulls aggro in a dungeon, than a prot warrior in that same dungeon...

Blizzard? Are you doing this one class at a time, or can prots hope for some love as well? Cause it honestly feels really bad when the most iconic tank in the game is just so far behind it's not even worth using any more...


Hi, just my humble perspective. My main has been a warrior since 2012 and this is the comparisson I do with Legion and BFA:

LEGION
1. Ignore Pain was clearly OP. 90% Damage reduction, low rage consuption, out of GCD, worked against physical and magical. etc.
2. Block was kinda useless next to IP.
3. IP, Magic Reflect made Warrior a good tank for magic too.
4. DPS was low, but somewhat decent enough to add a little bit of DPS.
5. Revenge+IP+Right Talents made Rage practically infinite.
6. Baseline Shockwave was PRECIOUS during Mythic+
7. The Critical you got from Reckelessness was useless for Prot Warriors.
8. Artifact Skill was mostly underwhelming when compared to Odyn's Fury.

In summary. Press the IP button while facing your target and you are set to go.

BFA
1. As much IP was OP during legion, it is useless now. Don't even sweat over it. 50% damage reduction, ON GCD (which is the worst), a very low cap now (25%).
2. Block was nerfed, but at least is being more used now. So...I don't know, a plus?
3. DPS is HUGE now. I mean, I think blizz wanted Prot Warriors to be like, a Hybrid Class. I'm doing 10,5k on m+, and a good DPS does 12k.
4. Armor is very good now. I mean, I had 45% damage mitigation on legion, now I have 55%. This makes a huge difference during melee heavy encounters.
5. Talents only work in few ways, so, you basically play the same way all the time.
6. Colossus+Unstoppable force+Demoralizing shout+deafening crash makes you a Thunder God of DPS and Damage mitigation. This is the ONLY way to play a Prot Warrior.
7. Without Deafening Crash, you are far from reaching the fullest potential of the class.

In summary, Prot Warriors (using the combination above) are very good on m+, mostly because of the DPS help to handle trash adds, superb mobility that rivals DH and good Physical Mitigation - without deafening crash, though, is clearly a subpar Tank. On raid, though, the lack of self healing, ignore pain being very bad and ON GCD, and the small HP pool makes Tanking troublesome on higher levels.

I would put Impending Victory on baseline, substituting victory rush, Increase Vanguard, and reduce the Cooldown of Block. Also, a slight buff on IP would be nice, like, just take it off from GCD, or increase its cap in proportion to rage consumed.
3. DPS is HUGE now. I mean, I think blizz wanted Prot Warriors to be like, a Hybrid Class. I'm doing 10,5k on m+, and a good DPS does 12k.


I don't think this is unique to warriors, all tanks except bear do crazy aoe dmg right now. DKs, DHs, even Paladins can outdo DPSers on 4+ targets regularly.

If you want to talk about M+ competing with other roles, DHs on AoE often outheal mediocre healers. While outDPSing mediocre DPS. With that in mind, I'm not so sure prot warrior's DPS is anything special.

In summary, Prot Warriors (using the combination above) are very good on m+, mostly because of the DPS help to handle trash adds, superb mobility that rivals DH and good Physical Mitigation - without deafening crash, though, is clearly a subpar Tank. On raid, though, the lack of self healing, ignore pain being very bad and ON GCD, and the small HP pool makes Tanking troublesome on higher levels.


Idk man, I mean it's -playable- but there's just certain pulls you straight up -cant take- as a prot warrior. F. example on any other tank in Freehold, I can pull all 3 packs at the start and be fine, whereas warrrior would struggle with 2; Or the 3 pulls before last boss, DK / DH can tank 2/3 of those packs decently well, while again warrior just struggles with even tanking 2.

Basically, anything that does heavy burst damage for longer than your shield block is up kills you. Which is simply not the case with any other tank because of higher HP + self healing to counter this; IN THEORY ignore pain should do the same for warriors, but it just doesn't right now;

I wish Blizz just gave us the OP ignore pain band-aid* back while they figure out a better one, because this status quo of ' We know rage tanks suck now. No, we won't buff them. Reroll.' is depressing and infuriating...

*(and yes, for all of Legion ignore pain was a band aid to make the class work; You'd think 2 years would be enough for them to come up with something better than just 'remove the only thing that kept your class viable'.)
IP was put back on the GCD?

LOL what the hell are you doing Blizz? You nerf War's best azerite trait and then revert what should have been off GCD since launch.

Hilariously bad.
11/14/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Mêphiston
IP was put back on the GCD?

LOL what the hell are you doing Blizz? You nerf War's best azerite trait and then revert what should have been off GCD since launch.

Hilariously bad.


Having a 1 sec CD doesnt make it on the gcd ?

Or has this been confirmed from actual ptr play ?
11/14/2018 07:27 PMPosted by Protgeta
11/14/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Mêphiston
IP was put back on the GCD?

LOL what the hell are you doing Blizz? You nerf War's best azerite trait and then revert what should have been off GCD since launch.

Hilariously bad.


Having a 1 sec CD doesnt make it on the gcd ?

Or has this been confirmed from actual ptr play ?


Its not on the GCD anymore, its just been given a CD so you can't spam it. Ironically, people like me, when doing PTR testing started spamming it. So when you do Shield Block and Shield Slam rotations you can double spam Ignore Pain to fill in the gaps. They want prot to have gaps apparently. I wouldn't complain about this much but when you compare to a BDK I suddenly ask myself if they truly only want players to play just one tank spec.

The shame is that they keep releasing classes and races. Whats the point of doing any of this if only certain are viable end game? I'm a big believe of not re-rolling flavor of the week. So, if they don't fix it and 8.1 is as bad as 8.0 there's a possibility I'll unsub. I had to work my tail off as prot, and I can contend with most things. But I get the most fun out of M+, which as prot there are some affix weeks I simply can't do.
11/14/2018 08:56 AMPosted by Lina
3. DPS is HUGE now. I mean, I think blizz wanted Prot Warriors to be like, a Hybrid Class. I'm doing 10,5k on m+, and a good DPS does 12k.


I don't think this is unique to warriors, all tanks except bear do crazy aoe dmg right now. DKs, DHs, even Paladins can outdo DPSers on 4+ targets regularly.

If you want to talk about M+ competing with other roles, DHs on AoE often outheal mediocre healers. While outDPSing mediocre DPS. With that in mind, I'm not so sure prot warrior's DPS is anything special.

In summary, Prot Warriors (using the combination above) are very good on m+, mostly because of the DPS help to handle trash adds, superb mobility that rivals DH and good Physical Mitigation - without deafening crash, though, is clearly a subpar Tank. On raid, though, the lack of self healing, ignore pain being very bad and ON GCD, and the small HP pool makes Tanking troublesome on higher levels.


Idk man, I mean it's -playable- but there's just certain pulls you straight up -cant take- as a prot warrior. F. example on any other tank in Freehold, I can pull all 3 packs at the start and be fine, whereas warrrior would struggle with 2; Or the 3 pulls before last boss, DK / DH can tank 2/3 of those packs decently well, while again warrior just struggles with even tanking 2.

Basically, anything that does heavy burst damage for longer than your shield block is up kills you. Which is simply not the case with any other tank because of higher HP + self healing to counter this; IN THEORY ignore pain should do the same for warriors, but it just doesn't right now;

I wish Blizz just gave us the OP ignore pain band-aid* back while they figure out a better one, because this status quo of ' We know rage tanks suck now. No, we won't buff them. Reroll.' is depressing and infuriating...

*(and yes, for all of Legion ignore pain was a band aid to make the class work; You'd think 2 years would be enough for them to come up with something better than just 'remove the only thing that kept your class viable'.)


This! I would be ok with the old OP Ignore Pain. I honestly think with, let's say the Avatar change including a free IP, I think they are further complicated the class, not fixing it.

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