Prot warriors in 8.1?

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Class balance is definitely a sore spot right now, both in community feedback and our own internal discussions. We're working on it. It's a delicate thing; we want to solve the issue of players feeling like their class is undesired, but we also want to avoid the opposite issue where everyone feels like they need to reroll to whatever the new hotness is every few weeks


I dislike how every time there is talks about buffing Prot Warriors, blue posts come in with "Well we can't buff too much or people will go play Prot Warriors."

Ok. I get it. At one point Prot was the favorite because of community perception and you don't want to do that. But those days are over. The classes are diverse as heck these days.
09/21/2018 04:41 PMPosted by Quard
09/21/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Sackless
There are 36 specs, if you are not happy about a spec, change specs.


let me quick change to my other tanking spec

[/quote]

I put my money where my mouth is, BDK was the most boring spec I had ever played since BC. I rerolled warrior. People flock to it because it's easy and has every utility except mobility.
09/21/2018 05:32 PMPosted by Shippujinlai
09/21/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Imperial
You've made leveling such a god awful experience, that if anyone wants to reroll because another spec ekes out an extra 1% damage and they wanna trudge through the leveling, then let them do it. They earned the right to do it.


This is a prot warrior thread go away.


Quote the whole thing if you're going to try shoo me away.

Why is it that the excuse always rears it's ugly head that X spec can't get fixes/buffs, because it's a delicate situation and the devs don't want to cause FotM'ers to reroll? Just fix the spec. I'm so tired of hearing this excuse. You've made leveling such a god awful experience, that if anyone wants to reroll because another spec ekes out an extra 1% damage and they wanna trudge through the leveling, then let them do it. They earned the right to do it.

(Blizz, you're obviously trying behind the scenes, but you have to communicate this stuff better, and you know it... you admitted it recently)


What you cut out was the context that made it about class balance. You're not helping your cause if you shoo away allies. Prot warriors definitely need help, and Lore excused the lack of change, because Prot warriors and other such specs low on the totem pole right now might upset the delicate sensibilities of maybe the 1% of our gamers that would be willing to just jump from one FotM to another instead of fixing the broken specs.
Finally at least some acknowledgement. Times a ticking though.. I hope changes don't take months more while more and more people refuse to invite Prot Warriors. I get rejected more on Prot Warrior than I do as DPS even though 10x more groups are looking for a tank than yet another dps. Never seen this before queueing as a tank, it's crazy.
Lore, thx for some response, even if it's scary.

Simple fix really, IP off GCD, buff it a lil. Increase shield block uptime by 2 - 3 secs.

Done.
09/21/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Lore
09/21/2018 02:51 PMPosted by Starcasm
Just curious but why can't you speak to any plans for the patch? You explained the tooltips for the proposed ele shaman changes, but can't speak about warriors? Or is it that there is nothing changing in the patch for warriors?

Few reasons. Partially because I'm not a class designer, so I don't make those decisions. But also because the class team themselves haven't decided yet. We agree Prot Warriors need love, but aren't 100% decided on exactly what form those changes will take, which also means we don't know if it'll need to be in a patch or not. The Elemental changes require a patch, otherwise we'd just hotfix them in.

Regarding this upcoming tuning pass, I wouldn't expect it to be something that solves every Prot Warrior grievance, but it should hopefully help while we look into potential further adjustments.

09/21/2018 02:51 PMPosted by Starcasm
Hate to say it (and hate to nail it to you Lore) but class imbalance is very very bad right now. I think most of us don't want classes that are OP or overtuned-- but we would like to see them fluid enough and competitive enough that we can feel comfortable that our individual investment will ensure us a spot and a chance at current WoW content.

Class balance is definitely a sore spot right now, both in community feedback and our own internal discussions. We're working on it. It's a delicate thing; we want to solve the issue of players feeling like their class is undesired, but we also want to avoid the opposite issue where everyone feels like they need to reroll to whatever the new hotness is every few weeks (side note, that's part of why we do tuning adjustments in batches rather than every few days, to give things a little time to stabilize before the next round).

I'd also like to submit the argument that, while class balance certainly isn't perfect right now, it's also the beginning of an expansion, which is *always* a bit shaky for class balance. There are absolutely outliers on either side of the spectrum, with some buffs and most likely some nerfs incoming, but aside from those few cases, our data (based on hundreds of thousands of boss kills, arena matches, etc) is showing that class balance isn't that far out of whack from how things were at the start of Legion, or Warlords, or Mists, etc.

But like I said, we're working on it, and will have more to share soon.

What a bunch of useless hacks.
09/21/2018 05:48 PMPosted by Imperial
Quote the whole thing if you're going to try shoo me away.


I only quoted that part because you only stayed on topic long enough to seguay yourself off topic so that people wouldn't react hostile to you trying to hijack this thread.

09/21/2018 05:48 PMPosted by Imperial
You're not helping your cause if you shoo away allies.


You showed yourself as not an ally when you tried to coop the blue attention we got for your pet issue.

09/21/2018 05:48 PMPosted by Imperial
Prot warriors definitely need help, and Lore excused the lack of change, because Prot warriors and other such specs low on the totem pole right now might upset the delicate sensibilities of maybe the 1% of our gamers that would be willing to just jump from one FotM to another instead of fixing the broken specs.


Recapping the discourse isn't doing a very good job of showing you are in with the warrior crowd. Again go away this isn't a leveling thread it's a prot warrior thread.
[quot
09/21/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Lore

I'd also like to submit the argument that, while class balance certainly isn't perfect right now, it's also the beginning of an expansion, which is *always* a bit shaky for class balance. There are absolutely outliers on either side of the spectrum, with some buffs and most likely some nerfs incoming, but aside from those few cases, our data (based on hundreds of thousands of boss kills, arena matches, etc) is showing that class balance isn't that far out of whack from how things were at the start of Legion, or Warlords, or Mists, etc.

But like I said, we're working on it, and will have more to share soon.


Is that really a valid reason? "Balance is always bad at the start" is not an ok reason.

...
Few reasons. Partially because I'm not a class designer, so I don't make those decisions. But also because the class team themselves haven't decided yet. We agree Prot Warriors need love, but aren't 100% decided on exactly what form those changes will take, which also means we don't know if it'll need to be in a patch or not. The Elemental changes require a patch, otherwise we'd just hotfix them in.

Regarding this upcoming tuning pass, I wouldn't expect it to be something that solves every Prot Warrior grievance, but it should hopefully help while we look into potential further adjustments.

[quote="207676905163"]Hate to say it (and hate to nail it to you Lore) but class imbalance is very very bad right now. I think most of us don't want classes that are OP or overtuned-- but we would like to see them fluid enough and competitive enough that we can feel comfortable that our individual investment will ensure us a spot and a chance at current WoW content.

Class balance is definitely a sore spot right now, both in community feedback and our own internal discussions. We're working on it. It's a delicate thing; we want to solve the issue of players feeling like their class is undesired, but we also want to avoid the opposite issue where everyone feels like they need to reroll to whatever the new hotness is every few weeks (side note, that's part of why we do tuning adjustments in batches rather than every few days, to give things a little time to stabilize before the next round).

I'd also like to submit the argument that, while class balance certainly isn't perfect right now, it's also the beginning of an expansion, which is *always* a bit shaky for class balance. There are absolutely outliers on either side of the spectrum, with some buffs and most likely some nerfs incoming, but aside from those few cases, our data (based on hundreds of thousands of boss kills, arena matches, etc) is showing that class balance isn't that far out of whack from how things were at the start of Legion, or Warlords, or Mists, etc.

But like I said, we're working on it, and will have more to share soon.


Is that really a valid reason? "Balance is always bad at the start" is not an ok reason.
09/21/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Lore
09/21/2018 02:51 PMPosted by Starcasm
Just curious but why can't you speak to any plans for the patch? You explained the tooltips for the proposed ele shaman changes, but can't speak about warriors? Or is it that there is nothing changing in the patch for warriors?

Few reasons. Partially because I'm not a class designer, so I don't make those decisions. But also because the class team themselves haven't decided yet. We agree Prot Warriors need love, but aren't 100% decided on exactly what form those changes will take, which also means we don't know if it'll need to be in a patch or not. The Elemental changes require a patch, otherwise we'd just hotfix them in.

Regarding this upcoming tuning pass, I wouldn't expect it to be something that solves every Prot Warrior grievance, but it should hopefully help while we look into potential further adjustments.

09/21/2018 02:51 PMPosted by Starcasm
Hate to say it (and hate to nail it to you Lore) but class imbalance is very very bad right now. I think most of us don't want classes that are OP or overtuned-- but we would like to see them fluid enough and competitive enough that we can feel comfortable that our individual investment will ensure us a spot and a chance at current WoW content.

Class balance is definitely a sore spot right now, both in community feedback and our own internal discussions. We're working on it. It's a delicate thing; we want to solve the issue of players feeling like their class is undesired, but we also want to avoid the opposite issue where everyone feels like they need to reroll to whatever the new hotness is every few weeks (side note, that's part of why we do tuning adjustments in batches rather than every few days, to give things a little time to stabilize before the next round).

I'd also like to submit the argument that, while class balance certainly isn't perfect right now, it's also the beginning of an expansion, which is *always* a bit shaky for class balance. There are absolutely outliers on either side of the spectrum, with some buffs and most likely some nerfs incoming, but aside from those few cases, our data (based on hundreds of thousands of boss kills, arena matches, etc) is showing that class balance isn't that far out of whack from how things were at the start of Legion, or Warlords, or Mists, etc.

But like I said, we're working on it, and will have more to share soon.


Forget class balance, there a quite a number of specs that are just plain broken and unfinished. MM hunters for example have a hundred or so forum posts about why the class is broken, which have not received any attention by class developers. Will MM be getting fixed this patch or do hunters ha e to play BM for an entire expansion again, just like in Legion because the vulnerability window mechanic was a major flop amongst the hunter community.
09/21/2018 06:32 PMPosted by Lemmiwinkzz
Forget class balance, there a quite a number of specs that are just plain broken and unfinished. MM hunters for example have a hundred or so forum posts about why the class is broken, which have not received any attention by class developers. Will MM be getting fixed this patch or do hunters ha e to play BM for an entire expansion again, just like in Legion because the vulnerability window mechanic was a major flop amongst the hunter community.


This is a prot warrior thread go away.
This thread looks like a lot of talk and nothing getting fixed.
09/21/2018 06:51 PMPosted by Shippujinlai
09/21/2018 06:32 PMPosted by Lemmiwinkzz
Forget class balance, there a quite a number of specs that are just plain broken and unfinished. MM hunters for example have a hundred or so forum posts about why the class is broken, which have not received any attention by class developers. Will MM be getting fixed this patch or do hunters ha e to play BM for an entire expansion again, just like in Legion because the vulnerability window mechanic was a major flop amongst the hunter community.


This is a prot warrior thread go away.


Sure, I'll go to the Hunter forums once a blue replies there. See what I did there ?
09/21/2018 03:45 PMPosted by Fâlc
I just wanted to say thank you for the response. A lot of us were frustrated because of the lack of communication about balancing. Its good to know you guys arent happy with it. When we hear stuff like what you posted I personally dont mind waiting a week or so to see whats coming.

Its when we dont know how you feel about balance, that is the most frustrating thing of all. You are left thinking: "Does blizzard know how bad my class feels? Should I reroll to something stronger to secure a spot in mythic + or raid or pvp?"

For example, for the past few weeks, I literally cannot find anyone who wants to pvp with my DK other than RL friends that are essentially doing me a favor. FYI: I was 2500+ in 2s in every season of legion. Now I am left wondering if I should just pull the trigger and reroll or wait to see if changes are coming. At least now I can have some peace of mind and hope there are some positive changes coming.

So again, thank you for the response Lore. This is really all the community needs sometimes. "Hey guys, we know theres balancing issues with X, well have some changes soon".


Stop thanking a company for doing their job that you're paying them to do, it's not a charity.
Good to see something is in the pipes at least. I love my prot warrior and it's the only tank I've ever played since Wrath. I would hate to have to switch but I also don't want to be dragging down my guild and M+ pals because my tank spec is garbage.
But also because the class team themselves haven't decided yet.


This is been a problem for well over a year, how has there not been a decision made? It was obvious that the development team had to of known last year when designing the Antorus tier set bonus' and gave us the most absurdly strong defensive and offensive tier set that there was a massive red flag. We got some changes in BfA's beta, but what ultimately happened was the revert button was hit so we could be "serviceable" by BfA launch.

The spec is a meme, it's a joke everywhere you ask players about it. There's jokes that people would rather have BM hunter pets tank in M+ than a prot warrior. We're the lowest represented by a massive margin in every aspect of the game, despite being one of the most represented classes in the game. We're the highest represented class in the game with only two representative roles attached to it.

We need the class developer who's working on the spec to engage with community. We have problems, we're one of the least updated specs in the game since Burning Crusade. We have a decade worth of mechanics that have slowly crumbled and broken down on themselves. We need an expansion level redesign, but it got canceled midway through the beta with no communication as to why, only for almost 2 months into the expansion to be told there's not even a plan?
I'd also like to submit the argument that, while class balance certainly isn't perfect right now, it's also the beginning of an expansion, which is *always* a bit shaky for class balance.
Well then maybe you guys should stop trying to redesign the classes every expansion and this might not happen.

You can't balance it if you keep reinventing the wheel dude, it's not rocket science.
Prot Warrior needs not only tuning to its defensive abilities, but it also needs a massive overhaul to its utility kit, and an entire rework of the talent tree (I imagine the utility can be put into the tree, while making many of the talents baseline).
09/21/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Lore
09/21/2018 02:51 PMPosted by Starcasm
Just curious but why can't you speak to any plans for the patch? You explained the tooltips for the proposed ele shaman changes, but can't speak about warriors? Or is it that there is nothing changing in the patch for warriors?

Few reasons. Partially because I'm not a class designer, so I don't make those decisions. But also because the class team themselves haven't decided yet. We agree Prot Warriors need love, but aren't 100% decided on exactly what form those changes will take, which also means we don't know if it'll need to be in a patch or not. The Elemental changes require a patch, otherwise we'd just hotfix them in.

Regarding this upcoming tuning pass, I wouldn't expect it to be something that solves every Prot Warrior grievance, but it should hopefully help while we look into potential further adjustments.

09/21/2018 02:51 PMPosted by Starcasm
Hate to say it (and hate to nail it to you Lore) but class imbalance is very very bad right now. I think most of us don't want classes that are OP or overtuned-- but we would like to see them fluid enough and competitive enough that we can feel comfortable that our individual investment will ensure us a spot and a chance at current WoW content.

Class balance is definitely a sore spot right now, both in community feedback and our own internal discussions. We're working on it. It's a delicate thing; we want to solve the issue of players feeling like their class is undesired, but we also want to avoid the opposite issue where everyone feels like they need to reroll to whatever the new hotness is every few weeks (side note, that's part of why we do tuning adjustments in batches rather than every few days, to give things a little time to stabilize before the next round).

I'd also like to submit the argument that, while class balance certainly isn't perfect right now, it's also the beginning of an expansion, which is *always* a bit shaky for class balance. There are absolutely outliers on either side of the spectrum, with some buffs and most likely some nerfs incoming, but aside from those few cases, our data (based on hundreds of thousands of boss kills, arena matches, etc) is showing that class balance isn't that far out of whack from how things were at the start of Legion, or Warlords, or Mists, etc.

But like I said, we're working on it, and will have more to share soon.


Because you can't !@#$ing stop %^-*ing around with class design after they were at almost a perfect point. You keep shooting yourselves and then say stuff like "The start of every expansion has class balance issues." JFC.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Few reasons. Partially because I'm not a class designer, so I don't make those decisions. But also because the class team themselves haven't decided yet. We agree Prot Warriors need love, but aren't 100% decided on exactly what form those changes will take, which also means we don't know if it'll need to be in a patch or not. The Elemental changes require a patch, otherwise we'd just hotfix them in.

Regarding this upcoming tuning pass, I wouldn't expect it to be something that solves every Prot Warrior grievance, but it should hopefully help while we look into potential further adjustments.

<span class="truncated">...</span>
Class balance is definitely a sore spot right now, both in community feedback and our own internal discussions. We're working on it. It's a delicate thing; we want to solve the issue of players feeling like their class is undesired, but we also want to avoid the opposite issue where everyone feels like they need to reroll to whatever the new hotness is every few weeks (side note, that's part of why we do tuning adjustments in batches rather than every few days, to give things a little time to stabilize before the next round).

I'd also like to submit the argument that, while class balance certainly isn't perfect right now, it's also the beginning of an expansion, which is *always* a bit shaky for class balance. There are absolutely outliers on either side of the spectrum, with some buffs and most likely some nerfs incoming, but aside from those few cases, our data (based on hundreds of thousands of boss kills, arena matches, etc) is showing that class balance isn't that far out of whack from how things were at the start of Legion, or Warlords, or Mists, etc.

But like I said, we're working on it, and will have more to share soon.


Because you can't !@#$ing stop %^-*ing around with class design after they were at almost a perfect point. You keep shooting yourselves and then say stuff like "The start of every expansion has class balance issues." JFC.
It's amazing how they choose not to pick up on this and try to understand.

Maybe they do, they just pretend to not acknowledge it. There's a reason why the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" exists.
I have been using this toon mostly as DPS but used to tank M and M+ dungeons w.o any issues.

I tried once to do M (was above 340 at the item) and was utterly destroyed and died twice on the first two packs in the M dungeon. I left afterwards as it was obvious that prot has been completely broken. This not only annoyed me but also annoyed other 4 ppl that had to go back to Boralus after wasting 15 minutes to get to Underroot. No wonder you have to introduce deals for 6 months subs when you are obviously OK for wasting ppl time and delivering such a poor gaming experience.

I do not understand how developers can release such a broken crap where after more then a month after GA some specs are utterly broken. And still does not seem that there are any firm plans on if and how to fix this mess.

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