The Worst Spec in the game MM Hunter

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Currently the best DPS I'm able to consistently get in M Raiding (first 3 bosses, 2 of which are the only friendly to MM encounters we will get this tier) is done by using only 2 abilities, being 100% focus capped while fishing to get a useful proc, and completely ignoring some procs that I only use if one the two abilities is on cool down. It just feels really awful. And that's in ST where we're not actually that bad when it comes to damage.

No 2 target cleave is horrible.. and our 3+ target AoE is a joke. It makes us a liability in 6/8 raid bosses that are built around either full AoE or 2 target cleave, and even on the ST encounters we get out damaged by BM who use the exact same spec for every encounter regardless of if its ST or AoE.

My guild has been pretty good about allowing me to play MM in its current state, but its at the point where I actually feel like a liability and I have no other choice but to change to BM to keep my raid spot.

Oh and it only gets worse. I didn't even mention M+ or PvP....
why cant they just change trickshot to work on 2+ and no cap on aoe targets?

Op much? don't think so.
09/24/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Jamßì


Oh and it only gets worse. I didn't even mention M+ or PvP....


I will happily mention M+
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/20#dataset=90

Marksman in Mythic+
Right now MM is the undisputed lowest pickrate for all specs on any higher key.
Having to compete with BM, who uses one talent setup for both AoE and ST, MMs AoE is pitiful right now.

This lack of consistent AoE paired with having to chose either ST or AoE, less general utility compared to BM (Dispel, Spirit Mend, Stronger Passives) and the other issues MM has, makes MM a bad pick for M+, worse even, than the Elemental Shamans and Enhancement Shamans who can still do consistent AoE dmg, even though they slightly lack in ST.

AoE Problem
Trick Shots hits like a wet noodle outside of a Double tapped Rapid fire and that will only work on a maximum of 3 targets on a 1 minute CD, anything Above 3 targets we have less AoE than other non restricted specs, but at the same time we also cant do anything to 2 targets. It feels unfair that we have these target restrictions and also do less than others within that range.

As a suggestion of how to alleviate the AoE Issue for MM, remove the target restriction to gain Trick shots, Multishot should always apply Trick shots, since we already only use it when we want to be doing AoE, this would allow us to have it ready for whenever it is needed, without having to worry about wether or not there are enough adds stacked at that time, a simple Quality of life change honestly.
If you do the math on 2 target cleave, you quickly realise that Trick Shots does less per target that a Precise shots buffed Arcane shot, so dont worry about 2 target cleave going out of hand.

A slight increase to the percentage of Aimed Shot is carried over from the initial Aimed Shot, an easy number tuning to throttle how strong MM is on consistent AoE. Right now the percentage is 40% of initial Aimed shot dmg, taking that number up by 10-20% would help immensely, and not affect the burst dps of Rapid fire, since that is a seperate effect of Trick shots.

MM has many other issues, many of which have been pointed out in this thread or in the "State of Marksman" thread.

Please help Marksman be a spec worth playing again, we are struggling down next to Demo Lock in terms of Parse numbers and pickrate.
Last night during raid someone laughed at my performance on Zul. I did much better on Heroic Taloc and Mother but yet again not as good as the BM in our party. We shouldnt be punished for playing the spec we like and we shouldnt be forced to respec so we can continue to enjoy end game content. I dont blame the raid leader or my guild member they are only reacting to the state of the spec you Blizzard designed. Please do something about it we have given you plenty of info and suggestions just make a spec that viable playing and not rejected in most end content game. We pay the subs too not only Shamans or Feral Druids.
BLIZZARD WHEN ARE WE GETTING A RESPONSE? WE DO NOT WANT TO BE FORCED TO RESPEC SO WE CAN ENOY END CONTENT GAME. WHAT KIND OF A MARKSMAN HUNTER DO YOU HAVE IN MIND? THE ONE WHO HAS TO SPAM 5 STEADY SHOTS FISHING FOR PROCS OF LETHAL SHOTS AIMED SHOTS? WE ARE NOT FROST MAGES.

A MARKSMAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE MOBILE, FAST AND TACTICAL WITH AN ARSENAL OF DEALDY ARROWS AT HIS/HERS DISPOSAL ( HINT LOOK AT HOW SYLVANNAS MOVES AND CLEAVES 2 TARGETS IN HER WAR BRINGERS CINEMATIC - WHY TRICK SHOTS WITH 3+ TARGES? WE ARE USELESS ON CLEAVE WITH A TWO TARGET FIGHT AND BAD WITH MORE THAN 3 FIGHTS CAUSE OUR AOE CLEAVE FRIENDLY SPELL - RAPID FIRE- DOESNT SCALE WITH MASTERY)

RIGHT NOW OUR ROTATION IS SO DEGENERATED WE DOONT EVEN USE HALF OF WHAT YOU DESIGNED.

-RAPID FIRE IS COOL BUT WE DONT USE IT CAUSE IT CAN BE A DPS LOSS.

-EXPLOSIVE SHOT IS COOL BUT ITS BROKEN WE DONT USE IT.

-VOLLEY HAS A REALLY COOL IDEA BUT WE DONT USE CAUSE ITS DAMAGE IS NOT WORTH THE RNG

-STREAMLINE WOULD WORK NICE IF RAPID FIRE SCALED WITH MASTERY BUT IT DOESNT SO WE DONT USE IT

-TRUE SHOT IS A WORSE VERSION OF VULNERABILITY WINDOW WHERE WE HAVE TO SQUEEZE AS MANY AIMED SHOTS AS POSSIBLE BUT ITS OUR ONLY OFFENSIVE COOL DOWN AND THE HASTE ACTUALLY DOESNT DO ALLL OF THAT BURST MAKING IT IF NOT THE WORST ONE OF THE POOREST OFFENSIVE CDS IN GAME

WE HAVE PUT OUT A LOT OF SUGGESTIONS AND FEEDBACKS SO PLEASE PLEASE ACT ON IT
Rapid scales with mastery since they changed it in beta, but the rest is true,
Lone wolf: ir vou get a bress, you have to wait 1 min for the buff or put a pet out
Aoe: 2 target i feel useless like a weight for the group
Heavy aoe(6 target +): same thing
Aoe talents: some share the column with our best single target talents
Single t talents: the best have too much rng, you feel like !@#$ with bad luck
True shot: well when you press a cd want to feel powerful, but with trueshot you dont see a diference i can go a figth without using it and dont feel the diference.
Azerithe traits: i have a 370 sholder and is a dps lost of 2%, same case with a 370 head.
Utility: lone wolf damage is low for the utility you lose
I know every spec has weak and strong points, but between the 3 hunters spec we dont shine in any situation
We are not asking to be overpower, or nerfs for the other hunter specs, we just want to play with the spec without feeling like a weight in some situations
Another Issue I have found, Steady Aim is MMs strongest trait, and Blizzard are trying to get all traits to give around the same dps effect, the problem with this is, if they nerf Steady aim, a large amount of MM dps goes out the window, and we are in a worse position then before.
I'd personally put frost dk, and arcane mage on the same level as MM. All 3 play horribly
There needs to be a clean up on the train wreck that is MM now, just feels awkward and performs very, very poorly.

For the love of god, please incorporate old ranged survival talents/playstyle into MM's talent tree.

-Revert explosive shot to the 3x aoe dot, bring back the old black arrow in place of serpent sting talent and make serpent sting baseline with all 3 specs.

-also would be nice to have something like crits restoring focus for MM
-crits causing a bleed dot or debuff of some kind

there has to be a way to incorporate MM into a desired raid spot or M+ spot
what does MM do now thats special?
-make a hunters mark (20sec or so) debuff on crit or something?

Put fun back into this boring awkward spec.

Its not that hard to imagine what MM could be like, there have been previous expansions where MM was fun and enjoyable, take from that.
09/23/2018 06:03 PMPosted by Ruzaki
MM needs to go back to MOP status honestly. I get the classic feel, i like the classic feel of casted shots and what not. I do not even mind having to stand still for aimed shot as long as it is rewarding.

To stand still for over 2 seconds to end up hitting as hard as a kill command from a BM hunter is just bad design.

MM needs to have a massive rework and a HUGE damage boost. We want to play it but when it is so bad that we cant there is an issue. Also the spec should of never gone like with steady aim first being a defbuff instead of a buff much less it being a debuff only 1 person can apply so you can NEVER have 2 MM hunter properly geared in the same group.


Wish i could like this comment more than once
wait when did feral or ele get good?
MM is so bad the spec needs to be reverted to legion or even wod. It's the hands down worst designed spec in the game.

The only reason it's played is because steady aim trait allows us to exploit steady focus and lethal shots completely ignoring most abilities and our resource.

Our 2 Target cleave is non existent, our 3+ Target AOE is dumpster tier unless specced fully aoe and praying explosive shot doesn't bug, even doing all this you still are average AOE and complete garbage ST.

The spec needs more passive aoe, more ability interaction, built in AOE that isn't clunky like trick shot, actual CC besides traps etc.

Honestly, scrap the whole thing. It's a complete mess.

wait when did feral or ele get good?


Both are in a better state than MM currently.
Worst spec in the game? Odd, this is not a Shadow Priest thread.
09/26/2018 07:28 PMPosted by Hulkamaniacs
wait when did feral or ele get good?


M+
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/20#dataset=100

Uldir
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#dataset=100

They seem to be doing better than MM, thats for sure, along with everything else
Sounds strange but considering you guys are getting looked at, and where in the same boat as you, its the truth now.
I dont know about you guys, but i play hunter for the class fantasy. Any game I play a gravitate towards the Archer/Ranger character/class. For most hunters progressing through mythic you get to play one spec. due to MM being non competitive and your raid team is already likely capped on melee so you cant even play surv. being forced to play BM is not enjoyable at all. I dread going to raids because I have to play something that I do not enjoy. Hunters are a ranged class and yes at one point in vanilla raptor strike and mongoose bite were viable, but I really disagree with making it melee. Surv hunter was a really fun and unique spec before being changed for legion. We were promised more diversity in legion with mm such as shadow rangers (dot based) but we were just given dark arrow...

Blizzard pls do something for MM its our last little bit of a true "Archer" feel that we have and we cant even play it for the most part because it under performs.
09/23/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Kholdo
Just rollback to MM Legion and work from there. I can't understand why they have to start MM from zero everytime they want to make changes. Just stick with one and start from there.


You can't be serious.

A) Vulnerable was cancer
B) Snakes was the dumbest ability possibly ever implemented... most of all in an expansion focusing on class fantasy. Exactly what marksman fantasy involves snakes? How am I shooting them? Am I like... attaching them to arrows somehow? Am I just chucking them at the enemy like BAM POCKET SAND?! What is this ability supposed to "be" exactly?
09/26/2018 09:11 PMPosted by Kalaryia
09/23/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Kholdo
Just rollback to MM Legion and work from there. I can't understand why they have to start MM from zero everytime they want to make changes. Just stick with one and start from there.


You can't be serious.

A) Vulnerable was cancer
B) Snakes was the dumbest ability possibly ever implemented... most of all in an expansion focusing on class fantasy. Exactly what marksman fantasy involves snakes? How am I shooting them? Am I like... attaching them to arrows somehow? Am I just chucking them at the enemy like BAM POCKET SAND?! What is this ability supposed to "be" exactly?


If you think post 7.1.5 vulnerable was cancer you probably just suck at the game.
Worst spec in the game? you must be high or something.
09/25/2018 01:15 AMPosted by Euromain
Right now MM is the undisputed lowest pickrate for all specs on any higher key.


Actually Fire Mage is picked less.

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