Personal Loot

General Discussion
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It helps casual guilds with poor management/ leadership. That's about it.

It leads to a HUGE disparity in item-level, a clunky system to redistribute tradeable gear (that isn't needed), and the satisfaction of seeing forged upgrades going to waste (because the looter doesn't need).

Seems legit. It really is just another gating mechanics, absolutely no doubt. Obviously it's good for certain environments but it's ridiculous it's compulsory.
09/13/2018 06:39 AMPosted by Damordn
09/13/2018 06:26 AMPosted by Starbreeze
I think a lot of people who hate it, hate it because they can't ninja loot anymore.
This is such a stupid thing to say and it’s beyond obvious that you don’t actually raid.

We have people in our raid who are getting 355 weapon drops one night then 370s ones the next who can’t trade them ... meanwhile we have a ret paladin in our raid stuck with a 310 crafted because no weapons have dropped or can be traded for them.

We have one other leather user on our raid who is still around 333 even after 5 raid nights because *I* keep getting drops I can’t share. I’m geared to the teeth and this guy has nothing?!? How is this fair or beneficial for guilds?

This is easily the stupidest and most poorly thought out idea in an expansion that seems like it was a competition for stupid ideas.


I was 343 before I even set foot in raid. Your guildy is not trying. This was before arathi rares, LFR, and M+. I've seen so many options for weapons this week alone on emissaries and WQs. Wtf are they doing with their time?
09/13/2018 06:23 AMPosted by Wickedsfoe
For specs that require a lot of a secondary stat the loot system is bad imo, cannot trade the item because its 5 ilvl higher than you have but cannot use it either because of the wrong secondary stats.


This is the only thing I don't like about the loot trading thing. What's the point of not allowing someone to get an ilvl upgrade in trade? I just feel that it goes against what I understood the reason was for personal loot in the first place.
Just a thought, if you keep the higher level ilvl item that doesn't work for you, it may allow trades of other similar items (ilvl upgrade but wrong stats) on future loot drops.
I'm old school so I personally still prefer Master Looter and Loot Council style handling of loot as I view loot as a tool and not a reward, and for the most part we're still able to do it. So long as the loot is trade-able that is. Which doesn't happen often but feels like a nice bonus when it does as we're able to make a decision on behalf of the team.

I get why we moved away from it and I feel like the Personal Loot system works well in dungeons but I think it'll be more interesting once we see the end of a raid tier and we've had a full cycle underneath it. I'm curious to see if it feels like we came out better, equal, or worse when it comes to overall gearing.

So far at the beginning it feels pretty equal at least from my experience, yours obviously could be very different. For our Heroic MOTHER kill this week she dropped like 5 or 6 Rot-Scour Rings that all were upgrades for us, and a situation like that feels really good on Personal Loot. If it was Master Loot we could've potentially gotten say 3 Mother's Twin Gaze's and only used maybe one of them, if not they'd all go to offspec on a second week of running the Raid. With Personal Loot that situation isn't a possibility, unless you're wanting it to be by people picking those specs that are eligible to receive that item.
09/13/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Ythisens
I'm old school so I personally still prefer Master Looter and Loot Council style handling of loot as I view loot as a tool and not a reward, and for the most part we're still able to do it. So long as the loot is trade-able that is. Which doesn't happen often but feels like a nice bonus when it does as we're able to make a decision on behalf of the team.

I get why we moved away from it and I feel like the Personal Loot system works well in dungeons but I think it'll be more interesting once we see the end of a raid tier and we've had a full cycle underneath it. I'm curious to see if it feels like we came out better, equal, or worse when it comes to overall gearing.

So far at the beginning it feels pretty equal at least from my experience, yours obviously could be very different. For our Heroic MOTHER kill this week she dropped like 5 or 6 Rot-Scour Rings that all were upgrades for us, and a situation like that feels really good on Personal Loot. If it was Master Loot we could've potentially gotten say 3 Mother's Twin Gaze's and only used maybe one of them, if not they'd all go to offspec on a second week of running the Raid. With Personal Loot that situation isn't a possibility, unless you're wanting it to be by people picking those specs that are eligible to receive that item.


You don't feel like a boss dropping 5 or 6 of the same ring is an issue?
09/13/2018 10:02 AMPosted by Snobby
09/13/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Ythisens
I'm old school so I personally still prefer Master Looter and Loot Council style handling of loot as I view loot as a tool and not a reward, and for the most part we're still able to do it. So long as the loot is trade-able that is. Which doesn't happen often but feels like a nice bonus when it does as we're able to make a decision on behalf of the team.

I get why we moved away from it and I feel like the Personal Loot system works well in dungeons but I think it'll be more interesting once we see the end of a raid tier and we've had a full cycle underneath it. I'm curious to see if it feels like we came out better, equal, or worse when it comes to overall gearing.

So far at the beginning it feels pretty equal at least from my experience, yours obviously could be very different. For our Heroic MOTHER kill this week she dropped like 5 or 6 Rot-Scour Rings that all were upgrades for us, and a situation like that feels really good on Personal Loot. If it was Master Loot we could've potentially gotten say 3 Mother's Twin Gaze's and only used maybe one of them, if not they'd all go to offspec on a second week of running the Raid. With Personal Loot that situation isn't a possibility, unless you're wanting it to be by people picking those specs that are eligible to receive that item.


You don't feel like a boss dropping 5 or 6 of the same ring is an issue?


i hate personal loot, but there was always still a chance of a boss dropping 5 or 6 of the same ring before it.
09/13/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Melonbug
So, I should have to pass all my loot to the "core" to "not be selfish". In other words, gear up the core and be replaced because my DPS is too low (due to lack of gear) with someone who has been getting fed gear / came over already geared.


Thats not how that works. In mythic guilds after the trial process is over that person usually needs to be caught up, and will get showered with gear. Many groups put loot to where its the biggest help, but at the same time its an investment to people they know will stick around.... which is an issue because many mythic raiders are the 'mercenary' types who will jump around using guilds as a stepping ladder to further their own progression rather then the groups. That's why those guilds tend to be controlling with loot, tis a very volatile environment. Though for people that don't understand group play, I've seen a few people freak out when they don't get every piece of gear they think they deserve.

09/13/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Melonbug
Even if loot is distributed fairly in a guild, all that does it lets you "progress" through content by overgearing it. Mechanics are there to be followed - if you screw up, there should be consequences other than "Hey, this guy just took a big hit because he stood in bad.. now I have to heal him".


So? They both help, its not one or the other. Especially in harder difficulties when theres usually gear checks. All those 1% or even 0% wipes start happening a lot more often the higher up you go. And screwing up usually leads to just straight up wipes these days.

09/13/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Melonbug
As for never doing any hardcore progression... I've probably done a lot more than you. I just quit hardcore raiding a few expansions ago because of stupid things like loot drama.


For someone who does hardcore raiding you seem to lack understanding for it, though I can see how that would lead to your perception of it being unfair if your views conflicted with the groups. Its a very 'gear us mentality' so when a 'gear me' minded person comes in they can view the process as "unfair".
09/13/2018 06:39 AMPosted by Damordn
09/13/2018 06:26 AMPosted by Starbreeze
I think a lot of people who hate it, hate it because they can't ninja loot anymore.
This is such a stupid thing to say and it’s beyond obvious that you don’t actually raid.

We have people in our raid who are getting 355 weapon drops one night then 370s ones the next who can’t trade them ... meanwhile we have a ret paladin in our raid stuck with a 310 crafted because no weapons have dropped or can be traded for them.

We have one other leather user on our raid who is still around 333 even after 5 raid nights because *I* keep getting drops I can’t share. I’m geared to the teeth and this guy has nothing?!? How is this fair or beneficial for guilds?

This is easily the stupidest and most poorly thought out idea in an expansion that seems like it was a competition for stupid ideas.


If you have anyone with lower than a 340 weapon currently it is their own fault.

PvP weapons have been out for over a week and are easy to get.
09/13/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Ythisens
So far at the beginning it feels pretty equal at least from my experience, yours obviously could be very different.


What would be good is if you offered some better tools for managing personal loot that can be traded.

Something along the lines of an opt in system to offer gear of yours that is able to be traded into the kitty.

e.g.
1. Right click on item
2. If able to be traded - you select offer to group.
3. Everyone else in the group who is eligible for it gets to /roll (need, greed, pass etc)
4. Loot is automatically transferred to that person.

You could even make #3 favour people with lower gear if you want.
In a raid environment - the master looter could take all the loot offered and then use the same mechanism to offer it around.
They should make items trade-able regardless of ilvl if it's to a guild member.
Dropped nine bosses + two bonus rolls, 3 world bosses on 3 toons and got zero loot, yes no loot at all just AP
I got a ring last week. Bracers this week, plus a Wand no one could use (why are Wands even still in the game??). A guildie got a Staff she didn't need and traded that to me. So... 3 usable pieces and one shard overall. Not that bad, honestly.
09/13/2018 10:02 AMPosted by Snobby
You don't feel like a boss dropping 5 or 6 of the same ring is an issue?

Not if all 5 or 6 people who got it can use it.

How would it be better to have 2 of one ring (that are usable by 6 different people), 1 different ring (that no one can use), 3 Mail items (with no Shaman or Hunters in the group), and 1 Cloth piece (for the 7 clothies in the group)?
09/13/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Kittymeowqt
09/13/2018 10:02 AMPosted by Snobby
...

You don't feel like a boss dropping 5 or 6 of the same ring is an issue?


i hate personal loot, but there was always still a chance of a boss dropping 5 or 6 of the same ring before it.


I still remember when I ran Dragon Soul and the final boss dropped only the bow. A heroic kill week one, and it dropped three or four bows (however much was the max number of loot in Cataclysm, I don't remember).

We had no hunters.

I have no beef in the personal loot debate, but whenever someone mentions something about personal loot dropping multiples of one item, I like to bring this gem up from my experience.
The weapon restrictions are incredibly stupid and need to be fixed. It's pretty clear personal loot was created in a world without considering weapons, and that should've been corrected prior to forcing it on everyone.
09/13/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Ythisens
I'm old school so I personally still prefer Master Looter and Loot Council style handling of loot as I view loot as a tool and not a reward, and for the most part we're still able to do it. So long as the loot is trade-able that is. Which doesn't happen often but feels like a nice bonus when it does as we're able to make a decision on behalf of the team.

I get why we moved away from it and I feel like the Personal Loot system works well in dungeons but I think it'll be more interesting once we see the end of a raid tier and we've had a full cycle underneath it. I'm curious to see if it feels like we came out better, equal, or worse when it comes to overall gearing.

So far at the beginning it feels pretty equal at least from my experience, yours obviously could be very different. For our Heroic MOTHER kill this week she dropped like 5 or 6 Rot-Scour Rings that all were upgrades for us, and a situation like that feels really good on Personal Loot. If it was Master Loot we could've potentially gotten say 3 Mother's Twin Gaze's and only used maybe one of them, if not they'd all go to offspec on a second week of running the Raid. With Personal Loot that situation isn't a possibility, unless you're wanting it to be by people picking those specs that are eligible to receive that item.


Personal loot has the chance to give a larger increase in performance to the raid. However, it also has the potential to be completely annoying / prevent items from being seen.

The odds of me seeing a specific shield I need are pretty low in personal loot - lower than previous with ML.

30 people - 1 shield wearer. 4 items on the drop table for me.

On average the raid gets 1 piece of loot per 5 (roughly) so I have a 20% chance of seeing an item. After that, if I get an item, I have a 25% chance of the specific item I want, so a total of 5% chance.

In master loot 30 people - what 5 or 6 items? G'huun has 12 drops. Ignoring the added probability that occurs when you go from 1 drop to multiples if he dropped 1 piece of loot each kill there would be a 8.33% chance of the shield dropping. with 5 pieces it would be roughly 40% chance of the shield dropping - assuming all drop rates are equal - each kill of G'huun.

When your role doesn't have a lot of overlap with other classes in your raid you will get the short end of the stick more often then not via personal loot.

What about the people that want to play multiple specs and need something for two of their specs from the same boss? I tank 2/3rds of the time and dps 1/3 (we have 3 Main tanks and rotate with each other to allow for coverage if one of us can't make it). We expect everyone to be competent in their off spec. I want to get a 2 hander (or a second one) and improve my 1 hander / shield (which I do twice as frequently) but can't select an option to just be happy with getting loot from either spec.

I guess it boils down to, in my ideal world Master Looter would stay. That isn't the plan and I get it. So I'd ask for the following changes:

1) Allow people to trade loot regardless of if the game thinks its an upgrade based on ilvl - because that's not always the case
2) Allow players the option to select all specs they are happy to get loot from. This way if they wanted to get 2 handers and or 1 hander / shield or dps and healing trinkets they could and not have to pick and choose.
Uldir personal loot has been a nightmare for me.

Just two rings, i've used 4 tokens so far and all of them gave me Azerite.
09/13/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Ythisens
I get why we moved away from it and I feel like the Personal Loot system works well in dungeons


Respectfully, I disagree. The distribution of loot is at times awful, with one person getting several drops while others get nothing (I have personally experienced both multiple times). This even seems to apply to raids: I cleared most of Uldir on one of my hunters last night and was the only person in the group to not receive a drop (aside from a trash BOE that was useless for her). In the past there were systems like Badge vendors to offset terrible loot luck, but those days are gone.

You may view loot as a means, for many players it is very much a reward of their time investment. I love to run dungeons to build transmog sets, for example, so to do 3-4 dungeons in a row without getting a single drop isn't fun. And honestly I don't find it fun to be the one winning the majority of items in a dungeon either, however rarely that happens.

I get the reasons for Personal Loot, and prefer it to people being able to act like jerks and ninja stuff or hoard drops, but there simply has to be a more consistent way to distribute drops. You're freaking Blizzard Entertainment, so I refuse to believe that consistent, fair loot distribution is some puzzle ya'll can't crack.
I hate it.
DKP was a carrot. Be it attendance...raid mat donation...whatever.
With personal loot...people show up whenever they feel like it. Avoid glass. Yeah, that’s up to the RL...I get it, but DKP rewarded those who attended more. Feels bad when...you were there all week, got nothing, but somebody who showed up 1 night got 2 pieces.
Master loot also helped balance the raid. Personal loot relies on somebody wanting to trade...if they can trade...as the ilevel restriction, many times, blocks a generous guild member from passing a 5 ilevel upgrade to somebody with a 10...15...or somebody who simply doesn’t want the stats.
Personal loot adds RNG to RNG. How many time are you going to win the exact same item? While never getting a desired item?
Feels bad. There was no reason to take capability away from guilds. It has purpose in LFG/LFR type runs. Anything else, if you don’t like the loot rules, find a group who’s rules you do.
I mainly pug, so i find it amazing. Before i didnt pug until i was fully geared because these !@#$ty guilds that used master loot.

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