i figured out the core reason of ALL bfa's problems --

General Discussion
instead of making the game fun, the devs are going all out crazy trying to make players stay subbed longer!

if blizz devs would only change their mindset and design the game from a fun perspective first, more ppl will naturally stay subbed longer.
every single game in existence has made it so players have to play longer to get more stuff dummy
i figured out the core reason of ALL bfa's problems

If you didn't answer "the players", you're probably going in the wrong direction.
This is new info?

Sub time=money=more content/payed workers

Is this how businesses work?
09/13/2018 06:59 PMPosted by Littzi
instead of making the game fun, the devs are going all out crazy trying to make players stay subbed longer!

if blizz devs would only change their mindset and design the game from a fun perspective first, more ppl will naturally stay subbed longer.


Exactly, it worked in MoP
09/13/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Glumrot
every single game in existence has made it so players have to play longer to get more stuff dummy


One word, 2 syllabuls

"God of War"
09/13/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Glumrot
every single game in existence has made it so players have to play longer to get more stuff dummy


Yeah but the design philosophy is now make things take longer artificially instead of make things fun so people want to keep doing things.
09/13/2018 07:10 PMPosted by Daltorax
09/13/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Glumrot
every single game in existence has made it so players have to play longer to get more stuff dummy


Yeah but the design philosophy is now make things take longer artificially instead of make things fun so people want to keep doing things.
why play a game if you thinks its boring or not fun
dude you CRACKED the CODE
09/13/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Glumrot
every single game in existence has made it so players have to play longer to get more stuff dummy


This isn't true, we use to play a game called Asheron's Call from 1999 to 2016 that game had monthly content patches for the life of it, players would burn that content up on patch day, but would still remain subscribed month after month because the game was fun AF and had the best PvP I've ever seen in an MMO
09/13/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Glumrot
every single game in existence has made it so players have to play longer to get more stuff dummy


not all.

Or the time locks make sense. Why for example does only 1 emissary slot reset daily? Why can't all 3? This is a needless time gate. We only get 1 1500 rep injection a day (edit assuming you are on top of this and other 2 cleared out as well). On a rotation. Don't give a f..... about turtles? its your only emissary...may as well do it. Or not. Wanted Proudmoore? Hope its the one tomorrow.

Its tomorrow. it wasn't proudmoore. Sucks to be you.

all 3 reset daily while a timegate still would make it less of pita really. And less obvious a time gate of doom.

War campaign...yay! you won this stage of the fight. But now...you suck again. Go get rep as we won't talk to you now. Still here? go away and rep grind now soldier.

My other long played mmo was eve. The training is time gated, yes. Not the content. And with some player skill and some shiny gear...you can bypass training to some extent.

I can take lower SP alts into harder content and make due. run the same pve 8 years, you learn a few things. triggers, game mechanics, all that jazz.

yes eve also has rep for better quality agents. But....if you are so inclined to run level 3's for 10 hours straight a day to get standing (what rep is called there) to unlock level 4 agents go right ahead.

Or join a 0.0 alliance, pve out in null sec between pvp ops and make way more money...no rep required at all.
09/13/2018 07:10 PMPosted by Ihexl
09/13/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Glumrot
every single game in existence has made it so players have to play longer to get more stuff dummy


One word, 2 syllabuls

"God of War"

Funny. I don't recall starting the game with light arrows.
09/13/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Duvainil
Or join a 0.0 alliance,


Check

09/13/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Duvainil
pve out in null sec between pvp ops


What is Pve?

09/13/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Duvainil
no rep required at all.


Until you get hottdropped by someone, like well....me

09/13/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Duvainil
The training is time gated, yes.


Yeaaa people think its a time gate here to wait for warfronts for two weeks, I will let you explain how long it takes to get into a Deimos, we will start small. Maybe tell them how long it takes for a Moros? or that its honestly easiest to have a second account. Ohhhh Did you tell them that even in pve if they die they have to replace their ship yet? I am sure the wow community which can't stand losing legendaries will LOOOOVE that
09/13/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Shaftogar
i figured out the core reason of ALL bfa's problems

If you didn't answer "the players", you're probably going in the wrong direction.
lol how is it the players fault for not liking time gating and poor decision making
It's just all the little things that add up.

Legion added a lot of gating and grinding which limited options from previous expansions for play style, but it was still fun in a lot of cases. There were lots of different options to do what you wanted to do or to get where you wanted to get. World quests were fun or tolerable. Lots of purple quests that weren't just for artifact power. Gear upgrades. In BfA everything feels more pigeonholed than ever.

BfA feels like it has less varied rewards for world quests. No more honor quests. Less world bosses. My map is filled with nothing but Azerite Power, which I have zero interest in, gear which is all downgrades, and a couple rep quests. This is the best expansion ever if you love the Azerite neck piece and grinding out azerite power. The quests all feel samey too, collect 4 of this, kill 10 of those, except now with the global cooldowns and everything being slower they all take longer.

You can't get anywhere with gear on the PvP side unless you have a team for rated. I don't have a team and don't want to compete in that atmosphere. I've been back for a while every expansion since vanilla, doing randoms for over ten years, because that's what I enjoy. Now the rewards for randoms are garbage. No gear that will even allow you to compete in PvP, not even in randoms. You get much to little conquest for any of it. I used to have so much fun in Tol Borad. What is out Tol Borad now? I don't want to play 3's and rated with the rude people I see on twitch.

Another little thing you might notice with the world quests if you start looking. Every one of them now seems to be designed to be as slow and boring as possible. Group finder was made more difficult. There's scaling in the game, global cooldowns are longer, killing stuff takes longer, it takes 15-20 minutes to do something it took 5-10 in legion. It feels like they came up with a very specific formula of exactly how far to spread mobs apart so you absolutely cannot run between them and must pull 5 things for every one piece of a "click on this" quest, and kill them so slowly. Then here comes the perfectly positioned patrol. Constant dismounting. I can't recall the last expansion where I've visited the graveyards so much just trying to ride around doing a click 5 of these quest.

The warfronts thing seems like it's going to be a once a week option, so if you miss out on the one week window you want, you need to sub and wait another month. Go play something else for 3 weeks? A lot of people won't do that. You could level alts. Leveling to 120 was the part I enjoyed the most so far. But then 120 is less fun than it was.

So many little things all put together to make boring stuff take longer, and longer, and longer. Yeah it's a business, but there needs to be a better balance between fun, QoL, and nickle and diming.
09/13/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Shaftogar

If you didn't answer "the players", you're probably going in the wrong direction.

Ion, is that you?
"Fun" is not exactly a strong descriptor, you can redesign when something isn't fun; but designing towards fun is far less simple. A design can be rather solid on paper or when all players are actually playing (Warfronts, aside from the terribly low tuning, are pretty engaging for the ease of the content) but become problematic due to specific constraints (again, Warfront tuning).

But then again, I tend to rather enjoy the relatively simple loop of WQ's as much as the active loops of M+ or raiding so I have less connection with the various angers in other classes.

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