Is the theme of this expansion colonialism and resource exploitation?

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Oh god, "cmon its 2018" the post.
09/16/2018 10:47 PMPosted by Cuckchan
You’re absolutely right in your analysis but I’d probably write this post on MMO-Champion rather than the GD of the official WoW forums. Lots of people who believe in the “might is right” concept and care little about the suffering of those onto whom violence is exerted upon. This forum is an overtly testosterone-filled environment where ignorance and pettiness is valued above all else. I’d tread carefully with any intellectually challenging narratives.

The maxim of Thucydides usually hold true for any affairs related to imperialism: “The strong do as they must; the weak and poor suffer as it is just.”


As usual, more pretentiousness & hypocrisy from the left.

Do you honestly think the leftist elites give a darn about any minorities they say they care about?
They are merely a tool to upset the greater social & political structure so they can squeeze in & take over - by any means necessary.
Economic migrants are just a tool to use for cheap votes. Flood the west with them, promise them all kinds of social programs (at the expense of the native citizens & legal immigrants) & keep them trapped in socio-economic ghettos for generations while promising big things & never delivering.
If the leftist globalists had answers to all of human suffering, there wouldn't be any! They're just exploiting suffering to gain power for themselves.

As far as testosterone-filled environments go, yeah where did you expect guys were going to go? When the rest of society keeps telling men they are garbage instead of redirecting their energy into positive channels, they tend to lash out. Big surprise that would want to lash out at who they see are their oppressors, huh?

Intellectually challenging narrative = a bunch of bull!@#$ my professor taught me that I didn't think about critically for myself.

People need to stop sending their kids to college. They come out dumber than when they went in. It's goal is to erase common sense & community value & replace it with atheist (that ultimately boils down to a "might makes right" ideology), leftist groupthink.

"So the final conclusion would surely be that whereas other civilizations have been brought down by attacks of barbarians from without, ours had the unique distinction of training its own destroyers at its own educational institutions, and then providing them with facilities for propagating their destructive ideology far and wide, all at the public expense. Thus did Western Man decide to abolish himself, creating his own boredom out of his own affluence, his own vulnerability out of his own strength, his own impotence out of his own erotomania, himself blowing the trumpet that brought the walls of his own city tumbling down, and having convinced himself that he was too numerous, labored with pill and scalpel and syringe to make himself fewer. Until at last, having educated himself into imbecility, and polluted and drugged himself into stupefaction, he keeled over--a weary, battered old brontosaurus--and became extinct.”
― Malcolm Muggeridge
It will be ok OP just take a copy of the communist manifesto and a few Che Guevara t-shirts with you on your next "expedition". This way the locals will throw off the shackles of imperialism and all starve to death in gulag....err I mean live in peace and harmony in their workers paradise.
09/17/2018 02:44 AMPosted by Mortex
09/17/2018 01:06 AMPosted by Farhandl
Obvious troll thread is obvious.

Even the biggest SJWs out there understand this is just a video game.


What? OP was making an observation. The trolls are all the replies making fun of the OP as a SJW or making fun of them "obviously" going to college, as if either of those things are bad? I can't understand the line of thinking that caring about human beings welfare is a bad thing? Like I don't get it.

As a widely reviled SJW myself, my problem is the sloppy writing of the "story" surrounding these genocides and exploitations, not the events themselves. Video games and other media should be able to tackle any topic or issue.But here, in one moment you're getting a magical necklace from King Magni to save the world and being called 'hero', in the next you're burning down Teldrassil/ransacking countless islands/waging open war/insert every other problematic quest secenario. Like, does he not care? Does he somehow not know, even though he has Santa Claus eyes and can sense azerite anywhere and the people stealing it?

It's just bad writing, and yea its a video game, I can enjoy the ride; but why should the OP not be able to express their views on it?
Because it's annoying and cringy. Video games are not a pulpit from which to virtue signal. The vast majority of people are not interested in this crap when playing a video game. Go be woke somewhere else.
09/17/2018 02:44 AMPosted by Mortex
09/17/2018 01:06 AMPosted by Farhandl
Obvious troll thread is obvious.

Even the biggest SJWs out there understand this is just a video game.


What? OP was making an observation. The trolls are all the replies making fun of the OP as a SJW or making fun of them "obviously" going to college, as if either of those things are bad? I can't understand the line of thinking that caring about human beings welfare is a bad thing? Like I don't get it.

As a widely reviled SJW myself, my problem is the sloppy writing of the "story" surrounding these genocides and exploitations, not the events themselves. Video games and other media should be able to tackle any topic or issue.But here, in one moment you're getting a magical necklace from King Magni to save the world and being called 'hero', in the next you're burning down Teldrassil/ransacking countless islands/waging open war/insert every other problematic quest secenario. Like, does he not care? Does he somehow not know, even though he has Santa Claus eyes and can sense azerite anywhere and the people stealing it?

It's just bad writing, and yea its a video game, I can enjoy the ride; but why should the OP not be able to express their views on it?


Some of you people seem pretty non chalant about murder.

Let's do a crazy test.

The Joker is a character who commits mass murder.

The Joker is a character who commits mass murder on black people.

If one of those seems more or less moral to you, you might be crazy.
"Theme" assumes that the writers are actually attempting to write a cohesive narrative rather than throwing rule of cool at the wall and seeing what sticks.
09/17/2018 03:04 AMPosted by Ferazhin
As usual, more pretentiousness & hypocrisy from the left.

Do you honestly think the leftist elites give a darn about any minorities they say they care about?


Don't confuse liberals with far-leftists, which I am. Liberals can be summed up this way perfectly: "They like the poor but certainly don't like the smell of them." I believe the working class should be the main decision-making powerhouse in this country since we are all part of it unless you're from a household that makes $700,000 per year or more. You have more in common with your fellow immigrant than you have with any rich people you might look up to since their social values are completely misaligned with yours.

They are merely a tool to upset the greater social & political structure so they can squeeze in & take over - by any means necessary.


And is it such a bad thing? Do you truly believe that our current kleptocracy is working for you? Are you a multi-millionaire whose interests are being represented? I don't think so but I could be wrong; a political party is pretty much the definition of what you just described: an organized social group meant to disrupt the current existing order. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Economic migrants are just a tool to use for cheap votes. Flood the west with them, promise them all kinds of social programs (at the expense of the native citizens & legal immigrants) & keep them trapped in socio-economic ghettos for generations while promising big things & never delivering.


Most immigrants (which are economic migrants) can't vote. But they are a resource of cheap labor. If you truly believe in capitalism, you should support immigrants since, per Adam Smith, "a free market must support the free movement of labor, across transnational borders." He kinda wrote the gospel for capitalism, you know, but immigrants are very juicy scapegoats since the money you spend every month for social programs should be paid for the people who exploit them in the first place: the ultra-wealthy. But instead of your anger being directed at them, it has been designed to be targeted at the victims instead of the perpetrators: "[...] merely a tool to upset the greater social & political structure so they can squeeze in & take over." Does that a ring a bell about yourself now?

If the leftist globalists had answers to all of human suffering, there wouldn't be any! They're just exploiting suffering to gain power for themselves.


Anybody who's positing themselves as a savior of humanity, regardless of their political inclinations, is a fraud and should be treated as such. I don't set unrealistic goals. But you don't need to be a leftist to see that with 10% of the $877B military budget passed for FY18, we could reduce world hunger by half; reduce adult illiteracy (currently at a staggering 1.1B people unable to read); completely resolve the cholera epidemic in Yemen - about to spread into Iraq now; relocate a vast chunk of the population at risk of having their land submerged under water in developing countries due to climate change; flood developing/ poor countries with generic medicine to reduce the child death rate; and so much more. I'd encourage you to read the yearly reports produced by the U.N. to read about the scale of human misery on a global and how just 10% of our bloated military budget could help billions of people.

As far as testosterone-filled environments go, yeah where did you expect guys were going to go? When the rest of society keeps telling men they are garbage instead of redirecting their energy into positive channels, they tend to lash out. Big surprise that would want to lash out at who they see are their oppressors, huh?


Oh, please. Let's not paint the dominant ethno-economic group as a victim either. I don't agree that "white + male = automatic privilege" since it doesn't coincide with the experience of the majority of white males in this country but it's a bit disingenuous to claim that we are being persecuted. As a white man, you should be able to point the privilege that is given to us in most daily interactions with other people; it's a cultural issue which is deep-rooted in this country's psyche. I think people should be made aware of it but changing it shouldn't be done through humiliating people for being who they are. Being a male in any society is a huge win. Being a male from the main ethnic group is a bigger win. The reason why there is a lot of anger coming from our group is because opportunities which were once available to our/ your parents aren't available to us anymore.

Intellectually challenging narrative = a bunch of bull!@#$ my professor taught me that I didn't think about critically for myself.


Education has always been designed to teach you what to think, not how to think. I didn't ask my professors for a reading list composed of Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chomsky, Hedges, Kant, Marx, and Engels. I just wanted to be able to form my own opinions and recognize when I was wrong or right and adjust to it accordingly. You don't go to college for that kind of intellectual liberation. You go to college to learn how to manage existing corporate systems and essentially become a systems manager.

People need to stop sending their kids to college. They come out dumber than when they went in. It's goal is to erase common sense & community value & replace it with atheist (that ultimately boils down to a "might makes right" ideology), leftist groupthink.


Again: you don't send your kids to college for them to increase the capacity for their critical thinking unless you're naive and ignorant. You send your kids to college because depending on their major and the school they go to, their career opportunities increase ten to a hundred-fold. Why insult families who want their children to have a good career, have a family, and become productive members of society? Why are you so angry?
I believe the working class should be the main decision-making powerhouse in this country since we are all part of it unless you're from a household that makes $700,000 per year or more.


Stopped reading there. If so, you support Donald Trump, as they elected him to office.
Sometimes “reading between the lines” is just “jumping to conclusions”.

I find it amazing at times that people are paid to teach it.
09/15/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Iver
"Island Invasions" is a more appropriate title than Island Expeditions. What kind of expedition is it when you just roll in, devastate the local fauna and slaughter the indigenous population for their azerite?

I was shocked when Flynn nonchalantly suggested we exterminate the local Hozen tribe during the tutorial expedition. He even commented how surprising it was to find Hozen on the island, establishing it as a unique and interesting example of tribal migration, before having us exterminate them. It's an anthropologist's nightmare.

That's not to mention the Drust. Why are they portrayed as the villains when they were just trying to defend their home from the imperialist Kul Tiran settlers? Sure, they resorted to pretty extreme measures, but who could blame them? They were driven to the brink of extinction. The Drust were literally subject to genocide.


As a rl anthropologist who specialized in archaeology, I cover my ears and hum through certain aspects. The archaeology profession, while I love digging stuff up of course, I have to constantly remind myself it's a game. That being said, I would love to redesign it so it reflects the method of real archaeological digs more accurately.

As for the anthropological history, don't take it a face value, take it as a learning experience. I look at it as holding up a mirror to real life, finding correlations and how interesting it is to see how I, when I play alts, react to events in their character. Expansion, colonialism, genocide, destruction of cultures...it's disturbingly on point much of the time.
09/15/2018 10:39 AMPosted by Daeralan
The Drustvar story really bothered me for that reason. “The evil natives deserved to be exterminated so that the colonizers could take their land.” Wut.

If you talk to the Thornweavers you get a better picture. The Drust were in a civil war when the Kul’tirans settles there, who were oblivious to their presence. When the settlers discovered the Drust, they sent peaceful emissaries for first contact.

And since the settlers didn’t know of the war, they sent their settlers to the xenophobic faction and were slaughtered like sheep.

The not-rip-your-guts-out-and-slaughter-children Drust joined the Kul’tirans and taught them druidism. And IIRC (don’t quote me on this) our big-boy Kul’tirans have some Drust blood in them.
09/17/2018 08:59 AMPosted by Torne
I believe the working class should be the main decision-making powerhouse in this country since we are all part of it unless you're from a household that makes $700,000 per year or more.


Stopped reading there. If so, you support Donald Trump, as they elected him to office.


Donald Trump absolutely does not represent the working class as exemplified by the Tax Reform Act of 2017 that cut corporate taxes from 35% to 15%, cut welfare programs, cut Social Security, and other gifts for the ultra-rich.

It’s commonly portrayed in the media that many working class people voted for him because he represents their interests when he never did. The reason they voted for him is that his campaign was based on up-ending the status-quo (remember the “drain the swamp” slogan?). People were desperate for an alternative than four more years of Obama-style policies that would have been pushed by the reactionary Clinton.

Of course, anybody with any kind of knowledge about politics knew that Trump only represented the interests of the billionaire class, as witnessed through many of his policies today.
<Troll>
The Kul Tirans aren't imperial colonists, they are merely undocumented immigrants who traveled to Drust lands seeking a better life. When they arrived, the patriachial Drust society refused to welcome them, sensing their impending loss of privilege. The Kul Tirans responded to the Drusts racism against humanity by reaching out peacefully, but when the Drusts began to murderer them for the crime of wanting a better life, the just Kul Tirans fought back against the Drust facist policies. In the end, the Kul Tirans numbers grew until the Drusts where the minority and the righteous Kul Tirans won the day!
</Troll>
09/17/2018 08:59 AMPosted by Torne
...

Stopped reading there. If so, you support Donald Trump, as they elected him to office.


Donald Trump absolutely does not represent the working class as exemplified by the Tax Reform Act of 2017 that cut corporate taxes from 35% to 15%, cut welfare programs, cut Social Security, and other gifts for the ultra-rich.

It’s commonly portrayed in the media that many working class people voted for him because he represents their interests when he never did. The reason they voted for him is that his campaign was based on up-ending the status-quo (remember the “drain the swamp” slogan?). People were desperate for an alternative than four more years of Obama-style policies that would have been pushed by the reactionary Clinton.

Of course, anybody with any kind of knowledge about politics knew that Trump only represented the interests of the billionaire class, as witnessed through many of his policies today.


See?

You claim to support the working class, but you don't support the working class. You support your elitist vision for the working class.

This is just laughable.

Proletariat style ideology doesn't work anymore because the proletariat is very reactionary, pro-white and fed up with oligarchy. The modern left platform is very, very pro oligarchy.
Pretty much. Did you play Cataclysm where the Horde and Alliance were scrambling over new territory based on the world changes?

Or Mists of Pandaria where both factions landed and immediately started press-ganging their respective allies into their armies?

Hell, Warlords of Draenor was the polar opposite where the Iron Horde was reinvading Azeroth for their war machine.

The past is prologue :D
09/17/2018 09:59 AMPosted by Torne
The modern left platform is very, very pro oligarchy.
In what country is that? Because there is no left in the US. There is a right-wing party and a center-right party.
the theme is rep grinding.
09/15/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Iver
"Island Invasions" is a more appropriate title than Island Expeditions. What kind of expedition is it when you just roll in, devastate the local fauna and slaughter the indigenous population for their azerite?

I was shocked when Flynn nonchalantly suggested we exterminate the local Hozen tribe during the tutorial expedition. He even commented how surprising it was to find Hozen on the island, establishing it as a unique and interesting example of tribal migration, before having us exterminate them. It's an anthropologist's nightmare.

That's not to mention the Drust. Why are they portrayed as the villains when they were just trying to defend their home from the imperialist Kul Tiran settlers? Sure, they resorted to pretty extreme measures, but who could blame them? They were driven to the brink of extinction. The Drust were literally subject to genocide.


$20 says Trump is not this guy's President.
09/17/2018 09:59 AMPosted by Torne
See?

You claim to support the working class, but you don't support the working class. You support your elitist vision for the working class.

This is just laughable.

Proletariat style ideology doesn't work anymore because the proletariat is very reactionary, pro-white and fed up with oligarchy. The modern left platform is very, very pro oligarchy.


Care to explain how I support my "elitist" version of the working class? I never said the working class didn't vote for Trump (they did) and I certainly don't blame them for it. If I was in their situation, I would have voted for someone who'd promise to shake the system up and bring it back to the "golden days" of capitalism during the post-war period where the middle-class was the main benefactor of rising wages; I claimed that Trump doesn't represent the interests of the working class, which him and the Republican party he is affiliated with absolutely do not.

As someone else below me said: there is no left platform in the United States. The U.S. hasn't had a leftist party since the Socialist Party was essentially demolished in the 1930s and never recovered since then.

The reason why there is an inability to discuss about a system beyond capitalism in the U.S. is that half-a-century of demonizing socialism and communism has completely removed people's ability to imagine a system beyond personal property and the way it affects human relations. Capitalist society peddles the idea that everyone is greedy and wants to own stuff. There is a huge amount of effort spent on propaganda to make us think that buying stuff, becoming rich, and being successful is a natural process; it's anything but.

Human beings, within the right circumstances and context, are cooperative beings who are rather fair to each other and share on a relatively equal basis if the incentive to make an astronomical amount of profit is mitigated and prevented by involving everyone into the decision-making process affecting the means of production (and that's where you can argue where the major failures of communism and socialism originated from since they closed-off the decision-making process regarding the products the workers created by segregating the decision-making process into a tiny cabal of individuals representing the state instead of the private sector). Cooperative corporations/ enterprises are the perfect example that when everyone from executive management to people working on the manufacturing line are involved in the decision-making process, and have an equal vote, the average salary of the CEO does not go up more than three-fold what the lowest employee is making.

This corporate model is thriving and emerging as the solution to worker-owned enterprises in a capitalist enterprise. I believe we need to go beyond that and dismantle the concept of private property and the rentier class altogether, but this topic attacks the foundation of a system that has been developing since the Feudal Ages. It might be more philosophical than practical but it's interesting to think about.
09/17/2018 08:59 AMPosted by Torne
I believe the working class should be the main decision-making powerhouse in this country since we are all part of it unless you're from a household that makes $700,000 per year or more.


Stopped reading there. If so, you support Donald Trump, as they elected him to office.


Another leftist here, hi, Trump literally lost the popular vote and the electoral college is bull!@#$ but go off I guess

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