MVP's, you can do better.

General Discussion
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09/15/2018 09:26 PMPosted by Rthen
09/15/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Metrohaha
Ya, and that is no more true than with me honestly. At times I can be a very slow learner, but I'm going to do my best.

I hope, in time, that will also be something that can be reciprocated back to me and the other MVPs.


So you have a 20+ page thread that pretty much is about how some customers are unhappy with you. I run a small IT shop for a mid-sized. If my Help Desk had 20 pages of complaints concerning anyone on my team (app support, IT support, network services..) they would likely be sent packing.

It's a 20 page thread but it's not really just about that. My posts here in this thread isn't about that. I don't think it's right to try and use what's a good discussion here as a weight to try and shame the people in the discussion.
09/15/2018 08:50 PMPosted by Verdre
09/15/2018 08:41 PMPosted by Khaharin
My point is that Metro deserves respect for how s/he is handling the feedback.


You'd be surprised what people will tolerate to avoid losing benefits.

Sorry for being cynical, but that is the truth.

We don't know he's being honest or if he's just saying things to make people think he's actually learned a lesson from this.

Considering he's talked about just stopping posting for awhile, that comes across as "it'll all blow over and people will forget about it soon enough."

Time will tell if this is just "what people want to hear" or is actually genuine "I've been a honkin' rude little jerk!"


Don't try to force another person to change their personality. That comes with time and since we're each on our own little personal journeys through life, it's not up to you.

As for those benefits you mentioned, green text and being able to get into betas is part of what they have to do.
They're not paid and they don't get health insurance or paid vacations, company accounts, company cars.

I find you to be very, very disrespectful and annoying.
Is this seriously a thread about slamming the MvP's now..

If only facepalm gifs worked on the forums.. Like meaning you could see the actual gif in a posters reply.
Indeed, Metrohaha hasn't been the focus. However, he has been an extremely visible example as a sign that the MVP program has issues it should be dealing with.

Even if you try and say that greens don't represent Blizzard, the fact is, Blizzard chose them to represent something. So, in lieu of a clear something, the image is that they to a degree represent Blizzard.

The choice of MVP as a title also has implications of its meaning. It wasn't exactly the best choice of titles for the position.

The fact that many of them seem to habitually "toe the company line" doesn't help the idea that they're not "supported" by Blizzard.

In short, the MVP program has issues. Some of those issues are simply a matter of perception. The AMA and some of the responses afterwards, along with a few specific MVPs, has made that abundantly clear.

What will happen as a result, that's up to debate.
09/15/2018 09:37 PMPosted by Hellglaive
If only facepalm gifs worked on the forums.. Like meaning you could see the actual gif in a posters reply.
I heard the new forums will allow us to do that, hopefully someone will be able to clarify that for us.
09/15/2018 04:23 AMPosted by Cyouskin
09/15/2018 01:30 AMPosted by Moirayne
Well I recently just logically destroyed one 'MVP' (Cyouskin) in a different thread. I tell you, they should all have their epeen status of 'MVP' removed. They're a joke at this point.

Sorry, I was farming M10's. Let me go respond to your post.

My response's TL;DR:

If Blizzard makes it queue-able, players will develop an expectation to finish the instance. When players discover it's far too difficult for them, they come to the forums and complain it's too hard. Blizzard will either nerf the content, or they'll tell you to get good.

Mythic+ content uses Mythic0 as the baseline. If you nerf Mythic 0, you nerf the keystones as well. (Don't nerf my content just because you think it's too hard to interrupt the healer.)

Mythic 0 isn't hard unless the players in the group are bad. Press your non-damage buttons more often, use your 3min cooldowns on trash, and collect your loot. You're now capable if doing M10's.


Clap

It's that simple.
09/15/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Gannon
09/15/2018 09:37 PMPosted by Hellglaive
If only facepalm gifs worked on the forums.. Like meaning you could see the actual gif in a posters reply.
I heard the new forums will allow us to do that, hopefully someone will be able to clarify that for us.


Hopefully these new forums have a silence feature also...

Enforced modding would be good too.
09/15/2018 09:27 PMPosted by Snowfox
09/15/2018 09:26 PMPosted by Rthen
...

So you have a 20+ page thread that pretty much is about how some customers are unhappy with you. I run a small IT shop for a mid-sized. If my Help Desk had 20 pages of complaints concerning anyone on my team (app support, IT support, network services..) they would likely be sent packing.

It's a 20 page thread but it's not really just about that. My posts here in this thread isn't about that. I don't think it's right to try and use what's a good discussion here as a weight to try and shame the people in the discussion.


Honestly Snowfox. the way you act on the forums and the way a lot of these MvPs act is completely different. You at least seem to be capable of giving criticism and giving honest opinions. A lot of these MvPs are just mindlessly white knighting blizzard.

At the end of the day, we all want the same thing. We are here because we love the game and want things to get better. One group is pushing blizzard to be better through honest and valid critiques, and the other believes that Blizzard could not possibly do any wrong and worships Blizzard like some sort of deity. I think it's better for people to be honest with themselves and with the rest of the community and have a good head on their shoulders than to be burying their heads in the sand and shout down to the community "your crazy, nothing's wrong with WoW".
09/15/2018 09:46 PMPosted by Hellglaive
Enforced modding would be good too.


They promised better and more aggressive moderation back when they removed the downvote.

Sadly, it didn't happen.
09/15/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Verdre
09/15/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Atarael
MVPs don't know anyone at blizzard


A few do, but that's splitting hairs.

I believe it was Mirasol who had an actual tour of the facility and saw first hand how the Silence system works. IE she was physically in the office.


I did, but it was years after I was made MVP. I finally made it out to Blizzcon and after it a group of us got a tour. I knew nobody at at all when made MVP in 2013. It was all based on my Tech Support/CS posts.

09/15/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Metrohaha
We call it the "painbow method" on my channel. Basically, another wow player we know realized that if you take some who vehemently disagrees with you, or even hates you and sit them down face to face, 9/10 times, you end up reaching an agreement by the end.


O.o?! I know what you refer to (I think) and that is not a good comparison. If I remember correctly he trolled the forums challenging people to come on his Twitch and discuss topics. He was really in your face and aggressive. I know I personally pushed back on that nonsense.

09/15/2018 09:14 PMPosted by Atarael
09/15/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Verdre
...

A few do, but that's splitting hairs.

I believe it was Mirasol who had an actual tour of the facility and saw first hand how the Silence system works. IE she was physically in the office.


Getting a tour of the office and being friends with blizzard employees are a bit different. As far as I'm aware, MVPs can directly communicate with CMs but only in the vein of "hey maybe check this thread out, seems like something of value". Other than that, they are folks like us. Though I will admit the green text does hold some weight in so far as people will associate them with a position of power within blizzard whether they want to be or not.


Yes. We can point them at threads, ask them quesitons, etc. That only comes after you are an MVP though and only in the last few years. The early days were terrible. You were an isolated green with nothing. Now we have a Discord and that helps. We can chat with other MVPs and the CMs. Mostly the other MVPs though.
09/15/2018 09:50 PMPosted by Verdre
09/15/2018 09:46 PMPosted by Hellglaive
Enforced modding would be good too.


They promised better and more aggressive moderation back when they removed the downvote.

Sadly, it didn't happen.


I am fairly certain, based on the MVPs any higher moderation levels would produce perma forum bans for posters like me...

I am openly critical of the game. I still play, pay a sub, and don't plan to quit anytime soon.
09/15/2018 09:27 PMPosted by Snowfox
09/15/2018 09:26 PMPosted by Rthen
...

So you have a 20+ page thread that pretty much is about how some customers are unhappy with you. I run a small IT shop for a mid-sized. If my Help Desk had 20 pages of complaints concerning anyone on my team (app support, IT support, network services..) they would likely be sent packing.

It's a 20 page thread but it's not really just about that. My posts here in this thread isn't about that. I don't think it's right to try and use what's a good discussion here as a weight to try and shame the people in the discussion.


Shame them? I am simply pointing out that as a customer service representative, which is what an MVP is functionally, they have failed. Respectfully I disagree with you on this.
09/15/2018 09:50 PMPosted by Zoopain
Honestly Snowfox. the way you act on the forums and the way a lot of these MvPs act is completely different. You at least seem to be capable of giving criticism and giving honest opinions. A lot of these MvPs are just mindlessly white knighting blizzard.

I appreciate the sentiment.. though many do say I only defend. :p

I mean, I think all of them do have criticisms and it's great when they post them. It helps add oomph when others have similar feelings about things. Heck a lot of the time, I'm like "well how we got here is x, then y, then z and I hate it too but what's better?"

Wouldn't expect greens to be attacking Blizzard though, that's just not.. what makes sense to do. What makes sense is working with the players to get problems fixed.
O.o?! I know what you refer to (I think) and that is not a good comparison. If I remember correctly he trolled the forums challenging people to come on his Twitch and discuss topics. He was really in your face and aggressive. I know I personally pushed back on that nonsense.


Haha, ya that's the guy. Hes hyper aggressive, but not a bad guy. Anyway, its mostly a joke because I had an argument with him and we got in discord together and ended up friends afterwards lol.

Its surprising how things can get really misconstrued through text, but when you can articulate yourself properly, the disconnects go away.

That's all I wished for here. If anyone who has a serious problem with me just spoke to me about it, personally. Such a big part of what seems to be problematic is just rooted in poor communication.

Anyway, good chat tonight every body. Was really exciting to discuss these things like this.

Off to bed. Let's have a good Sunday!
09/15/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Rthen
I am simply pointing out that as a customer service representative, which is what an MVP is functionally, they have failed


No, really we are not. When they start paying us, or compensating in any way, I will reconsider.

I AM part of the CS/TS MVP team (in addition to the D3 and WoW team) but that is unusual. WoW Community MVPs are not actually tied to CS in any way.
09/15/2018 10:14 PMPosted by Mirasol
09/15/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Rthen
I am simply pointing out that as a customer service representative, which is what an MVP is functionally, they have failed


No, really we are not. When they start paying us, or compensating in any way, I will reconsider.

I AM part of the CS/TS MVP team (in addition to the D3 and WoW team) but that is unusual. WoW Community MVPs are not actually tied to CS in any way.


That's something I think a lot of people misunderstand, or understand but want to apply to MVP's anyways; The idea that you guys are actual Blizzard representatives.

You guys have a connection to the CM's as far as I know, but even the CM's aren't the people we'd get solutions and the sort from. I suspect it's a little different of a table for tech support because you guys draw from more of a general knowledge about the tech than from a development team talking to you, but a lot of people don't realize why you were made MVP's and equate "hand-picked by Blizzard" to "representative of the company".

Sometimes I feel like you guys really do need to get paid, with all the stuff you go through!
09/15/2018 10:14 PMPosted by Mirasol
09/15/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Rthen
I am simply pointing out that as a customer service representative, which is what an MVP is functionally, they have failed


No, really we are not. When they start paying us, or compensating in any way, I will reconsider.

I AM part of the CS/TS MVP team (in addition to the D3 and WoW team) but that is unusual. WoW Community MVPs are not actually tied to CS in any way.


The title, The respect it commands, and the leverage it gives you with Blizzard are all forms of compensation. Some of you may do MVP for what you truly believe are noble reasons. Some may actually help players. However, I read a lot of posts on here and in my opinion MVPs mostly are supporting Blizzard (as other's have said "white knighting" is common) and many are rather rude and un-helpful to white text posters.

This is Blizzards game. Its up to them how they want to run it, who they employee, and who gets to run these forums. I'm just an old washed up, former hardcore MMO player. After truly reading this entire thread I find myself even more disillusioned about this game and its community.
09/15/2018 09:37 PMPosted by Hellglaive
Is this seriously a thread about slamming the MvP's now..

If only facepalm gifs worked on the forums.. Like meaning you could see the actual gif in a posters reply.


It’s anything but.
For the most part it’s been good conversations about how to be better as a community and improve our communication in the forums.
09/15/2018 01:00 AMPosted by Nephis
09/15/2018 12:29 AMPosted by Nemsmess
have you not read metrohaha's crap?


They're the only MvP that makes me realize Blizzard doesn't pay them, because they suck up so much that even Blizz would consider a restraining order.
Hahaha! You just won the interwebz! That one is definitely the biggest suck up to wear green since the fox was a mvp lol. Crepe 2018! Best mvp! Back in elementary school they used to let some students help crossing guards at intersections that stopped traffic at intersections for kids to cross before, and after school. Got little orange vests with a badge even. That's what I think of when I see a videogame mvp lol. And why so many of them?
09/15/2018 09:24 PMPosted by Snowslight
09/15/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Branuur
And they were probably stripped of MVP for doing it.


I don't think anyone has ever been removed from mvp for disagreeing with Blizzard.

Now the way they went about it, that could be a possibility but just your regular disagreement, no.
I say this because I've seen mvp's disagree before with dev/design decisions, etc.. and they're still here.


Only mvp to get permabanned was palehoof. That one was also a VERY long time ago. Long story short he said his wife caught him having virtual affairs and women sending him....their unmentionables basically erping in goldshire.. There's a thread on mmo-champ that goes into detail. Needless to say they deleted his post here

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