Feeling demoralized.

Story Forum
Prev 1 9 10 11 Next
09/23/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Ugom


1. That doesn't excuse her having a deathcamp in Gilneas. Or What was done in Hillsbrad.

2. Just cause they didn't participate in WC1 doesn't mean humans aren't pissed nowadays about orcs attacking since then. Garrosh in Cata brought in Blackrocks, and Dragonmaw never stopped being a problem for dwarves.

The Alliance doesn't come across as intolerant, it comes across as reasonably prudent given the Horde has ALWAYS attacked it. And this MIGHT be tolerable if the Horde at least remembered some of the Attacks by the Alliance in Vanilla, but it NEVER brings them up outside of A GOOD WAR.


In regards to 1. Nothing really excuses such a thing, but I did emphasize in an earlier post that the Alliance was definitely not there to help with Gilneas so much as to facilitate the conquest and extermination of the Forsaken as a species, with the Gilneans(Of course with the justification of trying to defend their home, natch.) assisting in that goal, and by the end of the day Windrunner wound up going WAY easier on them then any other opponent the Forsaken have ever fought.

2. I was going to muster a defense at some point in this thread, but I realized my experience as a Forsaken player for the better part of the last eight years would mean that any lore I could dredge up for such a thing would be hollow and vapid compared to what an actual orc player could likely put together.
09/23/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Eldrath
Poor OP belfy, oh oh... this is so sad :(
Horde so demoralized T_T
Bad.

09/23/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Ugom
The Alliance doesn't come across as intolerant, it comes across as reasonably prudent given the Horde has ALWAYS attacked it. And this MIGHT be tolerable if the Horde at least remembered some of the Attacks by the Alliance in Vanilla, but it NEVER brings them up outside of A GOOD WAR.
Ironically, my issues with the faction war start with Vanilla and to be precise, Thrall.

I've said this in other threads but the glaring issue for me is that Thrall never disbanded/dismantled the Warsong camps that were bordering on Ashenvale, or least displayed acknowledgement of it. For being the 'peaceful' Warchief, the fact he ignored what started the conflict between Orcs and Kaldorei is jarring for myself. You'd think he'd learn something from fighting off the Legion with them. Looking back, I'm not sure if I believe the Horde was ever the underdog.

Though that's all I offer on the subject, I leave it to Cinna-roll Fel and Dare to continue having their discussion.
09/23/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Lëora
09/23/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Eldrath
Poor OP belfy, oh oh... this is so sad :(
Horde so demoralized T_T
Bad.

09/23/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Ugom
The Alliance doesn't come across as intolerant, it comes across as reasonably prudent given the Horde has ALWAYS attacked it. And this MIGHT be tolerable if the Horde at least remembered some of the Attacks by the Alliance in Vanilla, but it NEVER brings them up outside of A GOOD WAR.
Ironically, my issues with the faction war start with Vanilla and to be precise, Thrall.

I've said this in other threads but the glaring issue for me is that Thrall never disbanded/dismantled the Warsong camps that were bordering on Ashenvale, or least displayed acknowledgement of it. For being the 'peaceful' Warchief, the fact he ignored what started the conflict between Orcs and Kaldorei is jarring for myself. You'd think he'd learn something from fighting off the Legion with them. Looking back, I'm not sure if I believe the Horde was ever the underdog.

Though that's all I offer on the subject, I leave it to Cinna-roll Fel and Dare to continue having their discussion.


Cinna-roll?
09/23/2018 02:50 PMPosted by Felya
09/23/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Lëora
... Bad.

... Ironically, my issues with the faction war start with Vanilla and to be precise, Thrall.

I've said this in other threads but the glaring issue for me is that Thrall never disbanded/dismantled the Warsong camps that were bordering on Ashenvale, or least displayed acknowledgement of it. For being the 'peaceful' Warchief, the fact he ignored what started the conflict between Orcs and Kaldorei is jarring for myself. You'd think he'd learn something from fighting off the Legion with them. Looking back, I'm not sure if I believe the Horde was ever the underdog.

Though that's all I offer on the subject, I leave it to Cinna-roll Fel and Dare to continue having their discussion.


Cinna-roll?
Because you're so sweet and handle yourself well, I often have issues trying to keep myself civil and polite.
[I certainly can't claim as such, there are certain things that people can throw at me that guarantee me flying into a rage, I have poor impulse control.
From what I've read the horde fight a fleeing Jaina on a boat as their final boss so I think we will end up repelling the assault so don't worry about it man. Also from what I've seen the only really evil members of the horde are the forsaken which is cool because that's what the forsaken have always been ruthless and effective to a disturbing degree. You can even see how uncomfortable the over faction champions are with the forsakens tactics. Everyone agrees that we have to defeat the alliance but the methods being used are being questioned.
Really the feeling is supposed to be that the Horde are losing this phase of the war. They won during the War of Thorns, but the Tides of Vengeance are supposed to be the alliance's win. Give or take however with how lame our War Campaign went, and how we started. I don't really get a victor's vibe nor do I anticipate this raid to bring anything of note.

(Everyone knew King Rastakhan is going to be killed or be forced to step down for his daughter to take leadership.)

Now I'm not getting the same vibe of victory that we're supposed to be instilled since we are attacking the Horde capital. I don't hold much in stake that we'll get much of anything out of this raid; let alone a real victory. There's much in place but I'm not sticking my neck out.

09/23/2018 08:05 AMPosted by Jellex
09/22/2018 10:34 PMPosted by Ningjinq
And the Lightforged are a ticking time bomb. Now there’s 2 shadow races in the Alliance, which they have stated they want to wipe out. And then they could go down Yrel’s path.


I am honestly, legitimately surprised that they have not so much as hinted on Lightforged/Void Elf tension. It feels like either a massive oversight, or that the writers are legitimately afraid of introducing anything other than perfect unity to the Alliance storyline.


That was something I begged to see in the alliance with the introduction of them too. But lo and behold Blizzard disappointed me without so much a nod to the void/light tensions. The Void Elves were supposed to have all odds stacked against them as:

- Former Enemies
- Infused with an opposite essence that oppose human, dwarf, and draenei faith.
- Likely have harmed/killed Alliance members prior to the Sunwell's reignition.

There's so much they could do but we're not even so much getting tension or an outright fight.
Not feeling that faction pride atm. I'm a little weirded out by this psudo-mirror of Ner'zhul's narrative on the Horde right now.

What do you mean a mysterious powerful entity masquerades as spirits to a powerful Shaman Warchief, compelling him to make a decision that ultimately leads to his horde committing to a War of Extermination (for "The survival of the Horde") against a group of people who really just would have preferred to be left alone?

What do you mean that entity supports a new leader of questionable moral integrity to push that war to its extremes, likely leading to the Horde's self-destruction?

What do you mean Christie Golden had a large part of writing "Rise of the Horde" and the narrative we seem to be following isn't Garrosh's, but rather closer to that of Ner'Zhul's (in the form of Vol'jin) and Gul'Dan (a bitter character shunned by her own people for something beyond her control, Sylvanas)?

Tho, that might be me being crazy lol!
09/23/2018 02:57 PMPosted by Lëora
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Cinna-roll?
Because you're so sweet and handle yourself well, I often have issues trying to keep myself civil and polite.


Good to know, I worried I was coming off as a judgmental goon, but thanks!
This entire expansion is essentially a deep look into how evil the Horde has become and what it needs to excise to make it better, so it's understandable that if you are a fan of the darker parts this would be... tiring.

The Alliance is winning (if you don't believe me, check the maps of what people have put together from mission tables and such) a Horde city is about to be raided with it's leader killed. It might've been necessary from a story perspective to get the Zandalari fully on board and to keep the faction conflict in the spot light, but I can see how it sucks.

As an Alliance player though, this has all been great. :P
I haven't felt any "pride" in the Horde since Thrall stopped being Warchief. The Horde used to be about "fighting twice as hard, working twice as hard, and living with freedom and honor", in order to make up for its past sins and to stand on its own two feet. Sylvanas becoming Warchief was far worse for Horde morale than Garrosh: at least Garrosh wasn't a retread of a very recent plotline. It is, without doubt, the worst case of "waifuism" this game has seen, aside from Varian and his wretched spawn.
09/23/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Eldrath
Poor OP belfy, oh oh... this is so sad :(
Horde so demoralized T_T

Yes, we are. Got a suggestion or constructive comment rather than mockery?
My faction pride has been non existent since the War of Thorns and it will most likely remain that way for years to come.
09/23/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Kelisaria
I haven't felt any "pride" in the Horde since Thrall stopped being Warchief. The Horde used to be about "fighting twice as hard, working twice as hard, and living with freedom and honor", in order to make up for its past sins and to stand on its own two feet. Sylvanas becoming Warchief was far worse for Horde morale than Garrosh: at least Garrosh wasn't a retread of a very recent plotline. It is, without doubt, the worst case of "waifuism" this game has seen, aside from Varian and his wretched spawn.


barely clothed nightborne talks about waifuism lol
09/23/2018 08:05 AMPosted by Jellex
09/22/2018 10:34 PMPosted by Ningjinq
And the Lightforged are a ticking time bomb. Now there’s 2 shadow races in the Alliance, which they have stated they want to wipe out. And then they could go down Yrel’s path.


I am honestly, legitimately surprised that they have not so much as hinted on Lightforged/Void Elf tension. It feels like either a massive oversight, or that the writers are legitimately afraid of introducing anything other than perfect unity to the Alliance storyline.


The leader of the Lightforged is married to the leader of the Void Elves. The only other figure they could turn to for guidance is named Velen.

The thing that turned Yrel zealous is dead in our timeline. Illidan eye-lasered it. And then proceeded to save the universe anyway, dropping hot takes and pearls of Illidan-style wisdom on Velen's head along the way - which Velen seems to have internalized. Alleria's theories were very much vindicated, when she ended up saving the day on Argus and got the last power-up for the spaceship.

Turalyon trusts Alleria. Velen was part of the Netherlight Temple, and they pushed the idea of balance between Shadow and Light. To "go Yrel", the Lightforged would have to stage some kind of coup to get rid of Turalyon and Velen.

And they aren't going to do that. Velen, Turelyon, and yes, even Alleria led the Lightforged to victory against the Burning Legion. It is impossible to overstate the kind of loyalty a successful general gets from his soldiers.
09/23/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Lëora
Ironically, my issues with the faction war start with Vanilla and to be precise, Thrall.

I've said this in other threads but the glaring issue for me is that Thrall never disbanded/dismantled the Warsong camps that were bordering on Ashenvale, or least displayed acknowledgement of it. For being the 'peaceful' Warchief, the fact he ignored what started the conflict between Orcs and Kaldorei is jarring for myself. You'd think he'd learn something from fighting off the Legion with them. Looking back, I'm not sure if I believe the Horde was ever the underdog.

Though that's all I offer on the subject, I leave it to Cinna-roll Fel and Dare to continue having their discussion.
That's more of a gameplay over lore issue. Blizz wanted PVP in their game, so Thrall and Malfurion sat around for a decade doing nothing as their people killed eachother for no reason.
Honestly it doesn't matter which faction I'm playing and I play both. I really don't feel good about where things are. On my horde toon I'm not ok with what sylvanas is doing. On alliance I'm not ok with how the war is progressing and the fact that even though overall we're allegedly stronger... we're losing badly.
09/24/2018 08:54 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha
That's more of a gameplay over lore issue. Blizz wanted PVP in their game, so Thrall and Malfurion sat around for a decade doing nothing as their people killed eachother for no reason.

Nuh Uh! The NEs and Orcs had a trade treaty that no one had ever heard about until the NEs angrily rescinded it over the Wrathgate incident. Thrall and Malf/Tyrande had addressed the issue. It just wasn't reflected anywhere in the game or in the narrative.
The premise of BFA is not enjoyable for me in the slightest. None of this either makes any sense nor is even enjoyable if you ignore the inconsistencies.

There's really no way this ends with an audience that is happy. Personally, it'd bring me some semblance of comfort if the Old Gods blindsided all of the prominent characters and their forces, causing them to die in their attempt to oust a primordial entity, leaving the world to feel desperate as supplies and armies become less reliable and territory is fleeting as monstrous races become more dangerous threats.

The power ramp in Warcraft is super high, it'd be to its benefit if a lot of technology, brilliant minds, expert swordsmen and the like just happened to vanish.
Something that doesn't make me trust the Horde story a whole lot. At Blizzcon, they really pumped up "Many people with THINK Sylvanas had something to do with Teldrassil burning, but the real question is why. The answer to that will be a good one that people should want to know"

Then we found out their grand plan for the Horde story. "The Heart of Y'sarrj told me to burn it...err..I mean the Tentacle of N'zoth. Whatever, Burn It!" - T. Sylvanas

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum