What "Spirit" told Vol'jin to appoint Sylvanas? (Spoilers)

General Discussion
Prev 1 4 5 6 Next
09/22/2018 09:29 PMPosted by Dalriata

the ones sanderson finished I thought were good/better then a lot of the fluff in some of the middle ones.


He did an admirable job, was worried that he'd botch it but now I can't think of anyone else I'd have wanted to finish the books.
Mueh'zala

He's another death loa, far FAR more powerful than bwonsamdi. He was referenced once in Vanilla, and then again recently in the Traveler series.

He was only worshipped by the Sandfury tribe, and has a shrine in their little area. His full name is Ueetay no Mueh'zala, or he also simply goes by "Death"

He is also speculated to be the spirit Odyn gave one of his eyes to so he could see into the shadowlands. The name is never specified, but the spirit that greets him is described as "shapeless". While in the Traveler, Mueh'zala is described as having the form that is ever changing in shape.

Now here's a prophecy

that there would be a reckoning, the battle would come, the fire would burn, and Mueh'zala would feast on all of Azeroth
09/22/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Lorsaire
09/22/2018 09:29 PMPosted by Dalriata
Why would death want Sylvanas when she is the antithesis of death?
She isn't. Not in WoW cosmology anyway...

https://imgur.com/YhJ3TXH

As you can see the Death cosmology domain is tightly intertwined with Necromancy and Undeath.

Necromancy is to Death what Fel is to Disorder and Arcane is to the Order, Holy is to Light, and Void is to Shadow.

The Undead are to Death what the Burning Legion was to Disorder and the Titans were to Order, the Naaru are to Light, and the Old Gods are to Shadow/Void.

When you understand how the pieces fit as defined by Blizzard... Sylvanas as an agent of the Death domain is a perfect match.


Even as defined by blizzard it makes no sense. Bwonsamdi is an agent of death he wants to collect souls and as such will use necromancy in the form of soulless zombies to push his agenda, however what Sylvanas does is the opposite, the forsaken are not soulless mindless zombies.
Maybe if we research more into Varimathras and the Nathrezim. More could be uncovered, he seems to know alot about whats going on. He did serve next to Sylvannas for a good while.

If anything like the light , void,and fel. This might be something new that hasn't been shown yet. A new source of power. Also with whats happened with Voljin, whose to say he isn't the one to kill Sylvannas off? She is death , he's more of the life type of Loa. Which would make them enemies.
09/22/2018 09:39 PMPosted by Ebonchar
09/21/2018 09:40 PMPosted by Lorsaire
Death is entropy and decay. It would make sense if the Void considered Death to be it's "true enemy".
No it doesn't because the Void loves entropy and decay. The Void views the Light as an enemy, not the Naaru. The Naaru =/= The Light.

The Void has no trouble munching on souls and animating corpses, just look at the AU Shadowmoon Clan. Ner'zhul's boss fight was literally in the Shadowlands - and he used Void magic to get there.
You are fundamentally misunderstanding the Voids purpose and end goal as Blizzard has revealed it.

It wants to consume everything and corrupt all life by spreading everywhere over all life.

Death stops that. Death denies it the ability to do what it most fundamentally wants, and the Undead seem to by most accounts in the story have some kind of natural affinity to resist it's influence in a way most living things do not.

And as Xal'atath tells it, the Void does not consider the Naaru to be it's enemy:

Xal'atath whispers: I know the naaru consider us horrors to be resisted. We do not share this view. They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path. They will return to their masters... in time.


But, the Naaru are agents of the Light, that's explicitly defined in the cosmology map Are you trying to argue otherwise?

Beyond which, there is very little to support that Sylvanas is somehow magically fighting on the side of the Light if the Void considers her to be serving their "true enemy" as the Void whispers tell Alleria.
Would be a twist if Elune was involved with Voljins new power. Don't think shes just tied to Night elves. Tauren also talk about her, but do trolls?

One key thing in the datamining , no one mentions if Helya is the one that whispered to Voljin. All other aspects of death have been questioned but her.
09/22/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Dalriata
Even as defined by blizzard it makes no sense. Bwonsamdi is an agent of death he wants to collect souls and as such will use necromancy in the form of soulless zombies to push his agenda, however what Sylvanas does is the opposite, the forsaken are not soulless mindless zombies.
Bwonsamdi is a loa. Loa are typically Wild Gods, and while he may be sheparding the dead to whatever their fate is... most likely something in the Shadowlands... that doesn't mean he isn't actually a Wild God of the nature/life domain. In fact... the recent broadcast text... where he is actually worried about the balance between life and death could point in that direction.

I figured he was an agent of Death too, until more recently. In fact, I thought it highly likely he was the Spirit that told Vol'jin to make Sylvanas Warchief. But the recently found broadcast text if it turns out to be true says that's not the case.

And... there's evidence that Bwonsamdi actually believes the Undead to be an abomination and not something he likes. Yes, he's animated things before, but he seems to see them as an unnatural aberration that shouldn't exist.

But the Death domain... the Death domain is defined as having the Undead as their major agents in the cosmology map.

So Bwonsamdi may not be an agent of the Death domain, whoever his "boss" is.
Lorsaire

varimathras left the beaten path of nathrezim tradition and behavior. he attacked other nathrezim, something outside their code of conduct. i don't think he was entirely nathrezim, to be honest. something is up with some of the nathrezim.

did you listen to the two videos i linked? particularly the second one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlyxUK7N-KY
09/22/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Dalriata
Bwonsamdi is an agent of death


Bwonsamdi is an agent of life that represents death. He is more akin to a wild god than an undead. His fundamental concern should be balance, and I think Elune is his boss.
09/22/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Dalriata
Bwonsamdi is an agent of death


Bwonsamdi is an agent of life that represents death.


o_O
whats that mean?
Bwonsamdi is Ryuk playing wow as a troll, stop this nonsense
09/22/2018 10:03 PMPosted by Lorsaire
You are fundamentally misunderstanding the Voids purpose and end goal as Blizzard has revealed it.

It wants to consume everything and corrupt all life by spreading everywhere over all life.

Death stops that. Death denies it the ability to do what it most fundamentally wants, and the Undead seem to by most accounts in the story have some kind of natural affinity to resist it's influence in a way most living things do not.
The Void wants to consume everything, yes. Not just life. Everything. Fel doesn't stop it - the Void can devour demons. Death doesn't stop it - the Void can devour souls animate or otherwise. Matter. Magic. Living, dead. The Void doesn't distinguish its tastes. Mortality means nothing.

The supposed resistances undead have to the Void is because the effects of undeath overlap so heavily with the Void's. The Void wants to tell you to kill your friends and family? Great! You already have a handle on your bloodthirsty impulses. Or maybe you don't, who cares? Feeling like an emotional dead battery today? No problem, it's not like you can get more manic! Paranoia, rage, insanity. The undead have nothing to lose. That's what makes them suited for resisting the Void. The only inherent strength of undeath is that it weeds out all but the strongest wills.

In fact, until Chronicle distinguished death as its own force, undeath's side effects were due to it being a state of shadow. Forsaken shadow priests used shadow magic instead of the Light because, as beings born of it, the Void was what renewed them. Not the Light. Even though that's been retconned there's a reason the Light is still incredibly painful to undead.

And even with the new cosmology chart; Death's relationship with the Void is parallel to Life's relationship with the Light. The two certainly aren't enemies.
I saw this summary on reddit and I quite liked it
Voljin: Who send me back and told me to make Sylvanas a new Warchief?

Bwomsandi: ???

Lich King: ???

Eyir: ???

Everyone else: ???
09/21/2018 09:52 PMPosted by Lorsaire
The other thing I keep coming back to is where does the story go from here?

Blizzard has put Sylvanas in charge of the Horde. If she truly serves the domain of Death... then that aligns the Horde with the domain of Death.

Blizzard has also recently given far more alignment with both the Void and Light to the Alliance. Alleria & the Void Elves... Anduin, Turalyon, the Lightforged...

What if they are setting up an evolution of the faction war for the future?

What if the Alliance is going to be the faction aligned with the forces of Creation (Void & Light) and the Horde is going to be aligned with the forces of Death?

That sets up a situation where the Alliance gets to have moral "grey" if they are fighting on the side of both the Light & Void. And the Horde while staying more towards it's darker nature, could also find its "grey" by being opposed to the Void even if it means being in the service of Death.

Could this be where the faction conflict evolves? Spilling over into a fight of cosmic proportions now that the Legion is out of the mix?
I really like this idea, I hope they continue to go down this road of Death is the enemy of the Void. It’s really cool because you can choose with which force of edginess to align with
09/22/2018 10:54 PMPosted by Ebonchar
The supposed resistances undead have to the Void is because the effects of undeath overlap so heavily with the Void's. The Void wants to tell you to kill your friends and family? Great! You already have a handle on your bloodthirsty impulses. Or maybe you don't, who cares? Feeling like an emotional dead battery today? No problem, it's not like you can get more manic! Paranoia, rage, insanity. The undead have nothing to lose. That's what makes them suited for resisting the Void. The only inherent strength of undeath is that it weeds out all but the strongest wills.

In fact, until Chronicle distinguished death as its own force, undeath's side effects were due to it being a state of shadow. Forsaken shadow priests used shadow magic instead of the Light because, as beings born of it, the Void was what renewed them. Not the Light. Even though that's been retconned there's a reason the Light is still incredibly painful to undead.
Yes, I've been in the game long enough to remember that we all once thought that Undeath and Shadow were basically the same thing and that there really wasn't a difference between the two that Shadow magics could be more pure like Shadow Priests used or part of necromany that raised the undead. But it's not been that way in a long long time since Blizzard clarified the way things actually stand. Call it a retcon if you like, plenty of things in the game are. But it doesn't stop the story from unfolding and progressing in different ways.

As far as the undead and the Void's influence, I forget where it was but there is a piece somewhere that indicated that the resistance actually had more to do with that "imperfect attachment of the soul" the undead have to their bodies that grants the increased immunities.

\The Void wants to consume everything, yes. Not just life. Everything. Fel doesn't stop it - the Void can devour demons. Death doesn't stop it - the Void can devour souls animate or otherwise. Matter. Magic. Living, dead. The Void doesn't distinguish its tastes. Mortality means nothing.
We can go around, but if you are going to argue that the Light is the Voids "true enemy", and Death doesn't matter, and yet the Void Whispers were manically frantic to get rid of Sylvanas because she's serves the "true enemy"... then how do you explain it? How too do you explain Xal'atath's whispers on the nature of void and light? Do you think all the breadcrumbs that Blizzard's laid out are all just lies for the heck of it?
09/21/2018 10:18 PMPosted by Fatkidzncake
The way i look at WoW is the same way as I look as my favorite book series, The Wheel of Time.

Books 1-4 were !@#$ing amazing, Books 5-8ish were absolutely filler, and 9-12 were %^-*ing amazing.

Darlings, we are entering the books 5-8 series of WoW.

If I wasn't already married, I would marry you. The fact that anyone not only KNOWS of the series but read the series enough to make such an accuate analogy!?
The power that whispered to Vol'jin was the owner of the company who makes the pillows with Sylvanas's picture on it. Yes, it's the Goblins who are behind all of this.

Cookie anyone?
09/22/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Lorsaire
The Pale Orcs from Draenor supposedly heard about the End Time from the Void Lords themselves, and their version of the End Time was that the Void consumed and corrupted everything... not killed it.
But you're forgetting the End Time dungeon. This is where we see what would happen after the Hour of Twilight falls. All life on Azeroth was wiped out. The only living thing in that instance was Murazond. Everything else is an echo of dead things.

Even Deathwing himself, their ultimate champion, was himself killed by them.
Blizzard is writing the story as they go along. When Vol'jin spoke of the Loa 2+ years ago, Blizzard wasn't at all concerned with the events that would transpire after Legion. They hadn't yet written it. I'm guessing it was just to 'shake things up'.

Which means everything in BfA is backpedaling as to why she's warchief in the first place. They're trying to cook up a decent story for her, and frankly speaking, I'll be surprised if it turns out to be anything other than a nonsensical mess.
09/22/2018 11:02 PMPosted by Gulder
I saw this summary on reddit and I quite liked it
[quote]Voljin: Who send me back and told me to make Sylvanas a new Warchief?

Bwomsandi: ???

Lich King: ???

Eyir: ???

Everyone else: ???

Azeroth did.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum