Is 'tanking' dead?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Alright alright, bit of a click bait title but... lemme explain.

First of all, I'm a very casual player, my guild is still 3/8H Uldir, on a roleplaying server where our raid group has an inclusive policy. (Aka, bring whoever wants to raid and we'll do it together or not at all.)

Recently, I decided I wanted to try tanking, I haven't done it since MoP, and since I play on different faction and server than I did back then, decided to level tank alts. First a Demon Hunter, then a warrior. (This one I'm posting on.)

So, years ago, I remember tanks to be actual... well.. tanks. The heavy armored vehicle that goes in, takes all the bullets, explosions and keeps on going fearlessy. But as soon as group finder pops up... I am fearful. "Will the healer be able to keep my squishy self alive?" I can't pull two groups of enemies, or I'm dead, I need to constantly be using an active defense that feels underwhelming (on top of being on GCD), I feel like if a DPS crits in AoE during pull, I'll lose aggro of a mob. Every moment inside a dungeon feels like an uphill battle and constant struggle.

Surely, this seems like a "Git gud" issue, and it may very well be. But I am here asking if am I the only one feeling like tanking got unnecessarily harder and actually.. unfun. I watched some videos of mythic+ and I see tanks "kiting", and avoiding damage with stuns, ring of peace, knockbacks and all kinds of tools to avoid... tanking.

The armored juggernaut jumping in and surviving a group of angry enemies quite often without much of a healer's attention doesn't seem to be viable anymore. So, is 'tanking' as I knew, dead?

(Also, does warrior get better at 120?)
I would say, if your idea of tanking is pull everything in the dungeon up to the next boss and have no need or a healer or dps to keep up with you while you stand still and solo the trash and the boss - that's probably dead unless you're a well geared (compared to what you are running) death knight or 20 levels above whatever you are running.

If your idea of tanking is managing the pulls so that a) the dps always have something to attack, b) the healer doesn't run out of mana, c) the others don't pick up aggro on what you have pulled, d) positioning so as not to face or butt pull additional unwanted packs, e) picking up the face or butt pulls of additional unwanted packs when they inevitably happen, f) working as a team with your healer and dps to stun, interrupt, mitigate, and heal through the incoming abilities to avoid unnecessary wipes - then tanking is alive and well.

Warriors (and all tanks) get better at 120 and with gear. However, Warriors, in particular, require a little more attention to their own rotation due to the changes to Ignore Pain (on the GCD and rage cost vs shield generated vs the Legion design) and rage generation - i.e. you can't spend rage on revenge if you're about to need ignore pain. The azerite gear with thundering crash makes all this easier and allows you to keep demoralizing shout up for 40 seconds or so every other shout, by hitting thunderclap every other ability while demo shout is active.

Preach Gaming had a good series on Tanking that I always recommend to tanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtg_ricaVZQ&list=PL0j3zibAlFDsSi7JuDJONxByfCwkXjve9&index=2
Thank you for the explanation, and I see the point. I never meant to pull the whole dungeon and solo the boss but I kind of missed being... sturdier?

Also checking the youtube link, time to 'git gud'!
You can still achieve what youre looking for, just have to tone down the difficulty and do normals or heroics or something.

Things are still roughly the same as they were, but the by product of m+ and its never ending difficulty progression just make it feel like its much worse.
You shouldn't be pulling more than 1 pack unless it's a trivial difficulty or you outgear it by a lot.
I will add that it's a heck of a swing to going from "unkillable death god" to "there are TWO horses in that pull, better use CDs".

I've never felt this "frail" as a tank before. I'm sure it will improve with gear, but right now stuff just plain ol' hurts.
It's worth mentioning that protection warriors are widely considered to be the worst tanks available at the moment: there's just too many factors working against us.

However, unless you're looking toward mythic 5+, or heroic/mythic raiding, you'll survive the content if your healer is actually healing. Make sure at least one version of mitigation(demo shout, shield block, ignore pain, bolstered last stand, shield wall) is alive at all times. You should muddle through.
Tanking is fine, youre just not instantly amazing at it.

Tanking at a high level is still a lot easier than getting 99% out of a DPS spec, but currently it isn’t a complete gimmie.

Tanking in general feels like it’s in a pretty good spot. I play a bear druid, brew monk and blood DK.

Between tank specs we could see a better balance, but tanking is not dead.

Edit — didn’t see you’re leveling. Content under 120 is a hodgepodge of half forgotten garbage. Just get through it ASAP and don’t worry about how it feels in the moment.
09/25/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Ticklebag


Tanking in general feels like it’s in a pretty good spot. I play a bear druid, brew monk and blood DK.

[/quote]

guardian feels so weak to me compared to what it was, rage generation is awful and i just can't take a hit the way i used to, also with a higher ilvl than our dh tank it seems kinda dumb that as a bear druid i have less health than him
09/25/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Werdrune
09/25/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Ticklebag


Tanking in general feels like it’s in a pretty good spot. I play a bear druid, brew monk and blood DK.



guardian feels so weak to me compared to what it was, rage generation is awful and i just can't take a hit the way i used to, also with a higher ilvl than our dh tank it seems kinda dumb that as a bear druid i have less health than him[/quote]

DH have this annoying tendancy to get 100-0'd within a GCD at random time because their mitigation have such a horribly low uptime (30% or so)... and they are basically paper when demon spike are down.

be carefull what you envy from them.
09/24/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Neall
tanking is alive and well.


I actually disagree with you, and agree with the OP. As a Healer I can't stop healing the tank for a split second. There is no rest and it IS an uphill struggle constantly.

They gutted tank mitigation and introduced mobs/mechanics that one shot the tank without said mitigation. Most tanks can only have relevant mitigation up 40-60% of the time. But majority of the mobs do sooooo much damage that without mitigation they almost get one shot. And so many mob abilities just ignore the tank, leaving them unable to do anything to control the mobs.

Let's look at JUST King's Rest

Animated Guardian: They turn and face random player and then do a big slam/stun. The problem is that they can turn right before the end of the cast, so you can never be sure where they are hitting. Tanks have no control at all.

Shadow-Borne Witch Doctors: Pure magic damage...Hope you brought all melee or you won't have enough interrupts to keep the tank alive very long.

Shadow-Borne Champions: They enrage and pretty much one shot your tank without mitigation, So basically if it takes longer than 30ish seconds to kill them your tank will get one shot. Remember bring the player not the class...well sorry, you need a hunter/druid for soothe or you're gonna die.

Boss- Golden Serpent: Spit Gold hits like a Truck and no amount of good tanking can stop that. Only thing you can do to affect the fight is clench your buttocks while trying not to get murdered while the Healer is forced to ignore you to Heal Spit Gold. Oh! you get to kite the boss away from adds, hooray! Engaging Gameplay.

The Four Trash Encounter in the Chamber before Embalmer: They all pull automatically. Isn't the Tank's job to control the pull, set the pace so healer can get mana, and players can CC? Too bad the Mobs pull for you!
Queen Wasi can MC you healer effectively Wiping the Group if you don't have a purge.
Queen Patlaa "Shoot" is a one-shot without mitigation and casts constantly, so the moment you run out of mitigation charges you die.

Spectral Beastmaster: Unavoidable Poison Barrage. No one can dispel Poison? Well, someone is dying. Sucks to be a priest sometimes.

Spectral Berserker: You got hit with the unavoidable Bleed...You have 10 seconds until you die, sorry, but can't heal you when you are taking half your HP in damage every 2 seconds...

Spectral Brute: Melees pretty much 2 shot you when you run out of mitigation.

Shadow of Zul's Shadow Barrage is uninterruptible, pure magic damage, and hit's like a truck. Most tanks have around 8 seconds of magic mitigation. So basically this is unavoidable damage that you can't mitigate. In relatively high keys, each cast does at least half of the tanks HP per hit. It's a 1.5 second cast...

I could go on and on. Demon Hunters have
2 charges of Demon Spikes, 6 second duration on a 20 Sec cd
Fiery Brand, 8 second duration on a 1 min cd
Meta, 15 second duratio on a 3 min cd.

So if you blow EVERYTHING Assuming you get 2 charges of Demon Spike back off cd, you have 48 second of mitigation, then nothing for 12 second. Twelve Seconds where most abilites/melees will one or two shot you.

Also, saying that Warrior get better (implying they are not good tanks, which IS true) with gear and Azerite traits is a poor excuse. If you need specific Axerite traits and high iLvl gear to be viable in low tier content then that is a serious problem. Most tanks need to outgear content to not feel like they are on the edge of dying at all times. Blizzard has gutted Tanks and introduced more punishing mechanics than Legion Dungeon ever had. Tanking is not Dead, but Blizzard definitely stuck a knife in its Ribs.
09/25/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Popeonarope
Blizzard has gutted Tanks and introduced more punishing mechanics than Legion Dungeon ever had. Tanking is not Dead, but Blizzard definitely stuck a knife in its Ribs.


We'll tank that, too.
...
...
...
Can I get a heal?
I hate this kite tanking. Iv only started doing M 3-4 but if I pull more than 4 mobs I get smashed and die.
Tanking is certainly not what is was. in BfA, all tanks do really is mark targets and pull the next pack. Threat management is done by the DPS because tanks don't have the tools to do it. Trash hits so hard that no amount of mitigation matters. DPS either do interrupts and slows while the tank is kiting so the tank lives, or they don't and the tank dies. Most tanks are very reliant on healers. DK's and DH's are less so, but their self healing is still nowhere near what it was in Legion.

I don't know if tanking is dead, but besides marking and pulling, tanks really aren't not in control anymore. DPS really has the most to say about whether a dungeon run will be a success or not. I certainly am not having as fun tanking as I did before. It isn't something to look forward to, and I have zero interest in tanking for pugs.
Moved up another 15 levels from when I posted it. And I am really on the fence about actually tanking, and the reason I rolled a tank was exactly everything Popeonarope said.

My main on legion was a healer, I got to 120 as a healer on BFA (S'how I unlocked Mag'har), but I couldn't get any mythic 5+ done in time because tanks seemed like paper, I couldn't keep them alive, or they couldn't hold aggro. So I decided to try it by myself... and I'm really afraid of falling in the same boat of those tanks.

Provengreil said: "...unless you're looking toward mythic 5+, or heroic/mythic raiding, you'll survive the content if your healer is actually healing."

I don't want to stop at 5+, I want to do my weekly +10... and I'm starting to think that as a warrior, it will be a hell of a challenge.
09/25/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Submitt
I hate this kite tanking. Iv only started doing M 3-4 but if I pull more than 4 mobs I get smashed and die.


They wanted to stop Kite Tanking, so they reduced Tank Threat generation...then the they reduced all tank survivability so if you don't Kite you get smashed. Everything in BfA seems to be working against itself.
Need Azerite gear to be competeive in High Mythic+, can't get Azerite gear from Mythic+.
Talk about how amazing the Raid Azerite gear is but then reduce the amount of rerolls and make them much more expensive so you have less chances to get Azerite Gear from Raids.
Talk about how the want to make gear more accessible by making everything personal loot, so its harder to trade unwanted loot to others, creating less loot overall.
They want to make it easier to understand if a piece of gear is an upgrade ad reduce the need to sim, so they add 40 Azerite different traits per spec and then make confusing and convoluted tooltips that make it impossible to tell if something is an upgrade without simming it.

The design decisions are astoundingly asinine.
09/25/2018 04:57 AMPosted by Hutta
You shouldn't be pulling more than 1 pack unless it's a trivial difficulty or you outgear it by a lot.

not true, what a good tank does is risk it a bit by using his cooldowns and pulling 2 or 3 packs. they need to gauge the groups skill.
Do you remember Cataclysm Heroic Dungeons when they first launched?

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