Mythic + is the worst thing to come to WoW.

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It certainly increases toxicity and promotes a sort of "haves vs have nots" friction among the playerbase. A 370 player will "look down" on a 360 player, etc.

I think it's a good feature from a rewards perspective (ie. if you complete this harder difficulty, you get better loot), but I can definitely see a general increase in "snobby-ness" and similar elitism as a direct result of this feature.

Just look at the forums recently, all sorts of whine threads from players having trouble getting into Mythic+ for whatever reason. The recent threads regarding the whole raider.io issue are a good example.
09/24/2018 09:12 PMPosted by Briske
Yeah, silly people having fun in the system not realizing that fun could possibly be hurting the game.

Just think of all the creative things Blizzard has done in 5 man content in the what, 12 or 13 years it existed. Think of all of the nothing you are missing out on.

Seriously, the end game system is the same as it was in every expansion but now you have m+ added on.


I don’t think you actually believe that. BC endgame, for example, was completely different because there was plenty to do other than spam arenas or run the most recent raid.

I can either go into all kinds of detail explaining what the systems were in older expansions (I’ll say pre-Cata for this argument) or I can just ask you “really” and the former takes too long so I’ll do the latter: really?
Raiding will still be the most efficient way to gear, which is why Mythic+ gear reward can be a bit underwhelming compared to raid. They wanted to avoid the case where raiders are spamming Mythic+ for gear for the raid dace.

Mythic+ especially at +7 above is still all about coordination. You can't blame group for being picky about their choice because the margin error is too fine. Saying that "i'm competent" is not good enough because words are cheap.

In the end lone wolves will have no choice but to join a Mythic+ guild. This may be undesirable but such is the nature of an MMO. Go out make friends in WoW.
Just as any other game, people who experience toxicity more frequently than others need to look at the common denominator.


I might be high, but this just blew my mind.
Remove the timer.
Remove WF/TF.
Remove rankings.
Stop promoting it as an esport.

Problems solved.
The affixs are a decent idea. The timed runs just say diablo to me.
You don't have to finish in time.
09/24/2018 09:32 PMPosted by Heniferlopez
Remove the timer.
Remove WF/TF.
Remove rankings.
Stop promoting it as an esport.

Problems solved.

You know you don't have to beat the timer, right? You still get drops at the end, you still get gear and a new key on tuesday, and your key just downgrades by 1, which is for the best since you couldn't beat the timer.
I've never done a Mythic+, but as a system is it significantly different than raiding, or running heroic dungeons for badges for that matter? It seemed to garner a very favorable reaction as an option for people who can't commit to a regular schedule.
09/24/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Mistblossom
09/24/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Bogwater
Not only has it ruined end game in WoW and reinforces the idea of repeating boring content while running on a hamster wheel. It's only reinforced the idea into blizzard that titan forging and RNG works. End game in WoW consists of afk in city, queue mythic + or raid and for some people arena. There is literally no reason to ever do anything else in this game. No incentive to do a battleground, no incentive to world pvp, no incentive to do anything really.

Mythic + from my experience has bred an anti social league of legends level of toxicity that has never been present in WoW to the level it is now. Even as a rank 70 shammy on my server I still get spam declined and kicked out of easy !@# keys no doubt because blizzard refuses to buff this $%^- class. Most mythic + groups don't even know how to communicate their thoughts it's like playing with a bunch of illiterate angry kids.


Never had this happen to me at any point in Legion or so far in BFA.

Funny you compare it to LoL toxicity. Just as any other game, people who experience toxicity more frequently than others need to look at the common denominator.


Experiencing toxicity in a game that is well-known to have a toxic community (similar to DoTA and other MOBA's) is not something that makes "him" the common denominator. In fact, there isn't just one common variable. There are several.

But you know, just go ahead and discredit what he posted because clearly it's a "him" problem...and not a systemic problem.
M+ is one of the best things blizz has ever added.
Mythic + is essentially Diablo 3s key system. Its a way to draw out content that feels like it shouldn't have much relevance. I get the idea, I understand the positives of having dungeon content remain eventful for the entirety of an xpac. The negative is its promoting stagnation. You never really go anywhere. The entire game becomes about a difficulty slider and gear, but the gear is relative and boring. Its just an Ilvl thing to do just to do it.

The other negative is that its made end game feel weird and cheap. What is end game anymore really? Its not seeing content, its just grinding ilvls through whatever means. The raids themselves mean nothing, they are just another idea on the hamster wheel to grind ilvls. Everything is just there to grind ilvls, but again, the gear is boring. You are grinding for very bland rewards. What is the point really? Epeen points for completing a +15 that means nothing and no one cares about?

I dunno, the game "feels" more pointless than it ever has. I was definitely more intrigued with wanting to do harder content as a casual when it means seeing an epic boss/dungeon/raid I could only get too by doing hard content. Tier sets being this magnificent showing of your class identity. That made me more motivated to play the game over "Here, do this dungeon on 15 different difficulty settings with RNG affects so you can show off your.... ilvl upgrade?"

Yeah... this game atm feels more grindy and less rewarding than it has in a long time. Thats mostly part of the design they have introduced since MoP though. Its not going to change, its not going to get better. You either accept the game has no meaning anymore or you move on. Im moving on as I have since late Cata. Im sure ill be back for a future expansion just to see whats changed, then the cycle will repeat.
09/24/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Mistblossom
09/24/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Bogwater
Not only has it ruined end game in WoW and reinforces the idea of repeating boring content while running on a hamster wheel. It's only reinforced the idea into blizzard that titan forging and RNG works. End game in WoW consists of afk in city, queue mythic + or raid and for some people arena. There is literally no reason to ever do anything else in this game. No incentive to do a battleground, no incentive to world pvp, no incentive to do anything really.

Mythic + from my experience has bred an anti social league of legends level of toxicity that has never been present in WoW to the level it is now. Even as a rank 70 shammy on my server I still get spam declined and kicked out of easy !@# keys no doubt because blizzard refuses to buff this $%^- class. Most mythic + groups don't even know how to communicate their thoughts it's like playing with a bunch of illiterate angry kids.


Never had this happen to me at any point in Legion or so far in BFA.

Funny you compare it to LoL toxicity. Just as any other game, people who experience toxicity more frequently than others need to look at the common denominator.

But they didn't bring up League of Legends? Also the reply you gave sort of proves OP's point about toxicity. good job?
Then dont do it?
09/24/2018 09:23 PMPosted by Gdtroll
It certainly increases toxicity and promotes a sort of "haves vs have nots" friction among the playerbase. A 370 player will "look down" on a 360 player, etc.


Is this your first expansion? This has literally always been the case. Getting your T0 and looking down on the green-geared plebs. Getting your T1 with T2 Helm/Pants and looking down on the T0 plebs. Getting full T2 and looking down on the mix-matched T1 plebs who couldn't get into BWL.

09/24/2018 09:23 PMPosted by Gdtroll

I think it's a good feature from a rewards perspective (ie. if you complete this harder difficulty, you get better loot), but I can definitely see a general increase in "snobby-ness" and similar elitism as a direct result of this feature.

Wanting players that can pull their own weight so they can beat the timer and get that third piece of gear isn't "snobby-ness" nor "elitism".

09/24/2018 09:23 PMPosted by Gdtroll

Just look at the forums recently, all sorts of whine threads from players having trouble getting into Mythic+ for whatever reason. The recent threads regarding the whole raider.io issue are a good example.

They're whining because they feel they're entitled to invites to high key runs over far more experienced players who have actually proven themselves capable of beating the timer.

The simple solution would be for them to just create their own groups and push their own key, killing two birds with one stone. But you know what? They never do that. Now why do you think that is? Is it the "toxic community" and those dastardly "elitists" with their "snobby" rating system that is stopping them from pushnig their own keys? Or, and this is a WILD one so just stay with me for a second, OR could it be that they're terrible players and are incapable of pushing keys?

Really activates the old almonds.
OP to be homest I think M+ is a great idea and something that a lot of people agree on. The issues that you seem to be experiencing are from titanforging which, in my opinion, should go the way of the dodo. And also from social stigma based on class balance.

The repeatability of M+ is a fine concept with increasing gear rewards as long as the rewards per tier are static. If you know a +3 will give you 5 ilvls more than +2 the repeatability is in increasing your level for greater rewards.

Currently the system rewards you for running 10 +2s and 3 chesting them as opposed to running 1 10+ for higher reward.
Quantity should not equal quality, there should be a cap to titanforging ie 10ilvls or it should be removed completely.

The issue of people accepting Shaman is unfortunately not something that will change easily, social interactions are funny like that, even if you buff them up to a top contending class the stigma from before is still held and makes people less likely to take you.
09/24/2018 08:07 PMPosted by Lichkong
Literally the best feature added, make your own key ffs and see the amount of people that apply.


That isn't the problem its how unfun the content is.
09/24/2018 08:02 PMPosted by Senseimoonk
Name an expansion where content wasn't intended to be repeated over and over.

Everything until WoD. Or whenever mythic + was introduced. Maybe wod was just mythic dungeons. So Legion then?

before that, it was. Run a dungeon, learn it, run it on heroic, get better loot.

Now it's. Run it, learn it, run it on heroic, gear for mythic, run mythic, gear for mythic +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9.

If you can't see the lazy design behind that and getting more play time out of less development then idk what else to tell you.

i'm sure you have fun, everyone enjoys different things. But, that's what OP's leaning at.

I don't pve. and I don't like the idea of pveing for the sake of pveing more at a higher tuned difficulty. so I can't really comment on any personal opinion based on experience.

Mythic plus is kind of similar to pvp in a sense I guess ,you queue up and do the same thing over and over so that you can do it at a higher difficulty and show off that you've succeeded at the higher difficulty. So, maybe I can understand why people enjoy it. Bragging rights and waht not.

It doesn't seem like a fun way to get loot though. I'd get sick of running the same dungeon over and over and over and over. Npcs hit harder and have more health or w/e. whooptie !@#$ing do.
09/24/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Bogwater
Not only has it ruined end game in WoW and reinforces the idea of repeating boring content while running on a hamster wheel. It's only reinforced the idea into blizzard that titan forging and RNG works. End game in WoW consists of afk in city, queue mythic + or raid and for some people arena. There is literally no reason to ever do anything else in this game. No incentive to do a battleground, no incentive to world pvp, no incentive to do anything really.

Mythic + from my experience has bred an anti social league of legends level of toxicity that has never been present in WoW to the level it is now. Even as a rank 70 shammy on my server I still get spam declined and kicked out of easy !@# keys no doubt because blizzard refuses to buff this $%^- class. Most mythic + groups don't even know how to communicate their thoughts it's like playing with a bunch of illiterate angry kids.
I think you're mad bro
M+ is one of the best things in wow

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