Mythic + is the worst thing to come to WoW.

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Mythic + is good man. Tis a good game
Mythic + dungeons are great. But they could be done a lot better. Build a natural progression system built into them. Remove keys completely. This will help people evaluate other players better, and removing the key aspect will make it feel better when things don't go well, because you won't feel like you've lost something.

want to do +3 dungeons? first you have to complete 5 unique +2 dungeons in time.
want to do +10? well you have to do 5 unique +9 dungeons in time.

also I'd slightly raise the reward for failure and add a penalty for leaving a + group before the 45-60minute marker.
09/24/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Bogwater
Not only has it ruined end game in WoW and reinforces the idea of repeating boring content while running on a hamster wheel. It's only reinforced the idea into blizzard that titan forging and RNG works. End game in WoW consists of afk in city, queue mythic + or raid and for some people arena. There is literally no reason to ever do anything else in this game. No incentive to do a battleground, no incentive to world pvp, no incentive to do anything really.

Mythic + from my experience has bred an anti social league of legends level of toxicity that has never been present in WoW to the level it is now. Even as a rank 70 shammy on my server I still get spam declined and kicked out of easy !@# keys no doubt because blizzard refuses to buff this $%^- class. Most mythic + groups don't even know how to communicate their thoughts it's like playing with a bunch of illiterate angry kids.


Who's angry? Yes, Shaman are in a terrible spot right now, but they are still fine in raids and M+. M+ is an amazing idea, in the sense that it takes skill / dedication to learn the routes, learn the adds, build the best group for pushing higher keys, and being rewarded, the higher you get.
PSA: please dont feed the trolls.
09/24/2018 09:03 PMPosted by Sifu
...then...here's a crazy thought.... don't...do them...?

I don't like doing high end rated PvP. Guess what I don't do?


Impossible. If you want to do progression raiding you will be forced to do them against your will. They drop gear that can potentially be higher item level than raid gear and are spamable for basically all the loot you could ever want ever unlike raids. Also lets also not forget that a lot of the gear in Mythic + has better itemization than items found in uldir.

I think that Mythic + is too rewarding, and that titanforging, warforging, gem socket proccing and tertiary stats are the worst things to ever happen to this game in a very long time. Why is it okay that someone can go into LFR and score a 395 piece of gear cuz they got super lucky with a ridiculous titanforge? Why is it okay that 5 man content is currently more rewarding than the large group content in the game? These things really don't make any sense to me and I really don't like it.
09/24/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Bogwater
Not only has it ruined end game in WoW and reinforces the idea of repeating boring content while running on a hamster wheel. It's only reinforced the idea into blizzard that titan forging and RNG works. End game in WoW consists of afk in city, queue mythic + or raid and for some people arena. There is literally no reason to ever do anything else in this game. No incentive to do a battleground, no incentive to world pvp, no incentive to do anything really.

Mythic + from my experience has bred an anti social league of legends level of toxicity that has never been present in WoW to the level it is now. Even as a rank 70 shammy on my server I still get spam declined and kicked out of easy !@# keys no doubt because blizzard refuses to buff this $%^- class. Most mythic + groups don't even know how to communicate their thoughts it's like playing with a bunch of illiterate angry kids.


You are playing with a bunch of angry kids. Welcome to online gaming now. Too many kids with no parental guidance and access to 4chan.
Remove the timer.


Why? Anyone can brute force a dungeon and clear it eventually. But can you beat the timer? That's the real test of skill. Why are so many people afraid of challenging, skill based content in this game?

I dunno, the game "feels" more pointless than it ever has. I was definitely more intrigued with wanting to do harder content as a casual when it means seeing an epic boss/dungeon/raid I could only get too by doing hard content.


You can blame casuals for that. They weren't good enough to do raids and didn't care to try to improve, so they whined. Then Blizz had to invent LFR and Normal. And with that, raids are no longer as unique or interesting since they exist in so many difficulty modes.
How dare blizzard give people a different method of acquiring raid quality gear if they aren't interesting in raiding while at the same time giving dungeons an actually life span instead of being viable for the first 2-3 weeks of an expansion. Shame on them. SHAME!!!
I enjoy the small scale difficult content. Though it does seem like it still needs a little tuning. Teeming getting hotfixed last week makes me think other affixes might be a little too much as well.
09/25/2018 05:23 AMPosted by Sinkasumi
I don't enjoy the whole frantic speedrun feeling rushed, so I stick to raids.


The distaste I get from this is that it's kind of a borrowed formula from Diablo 3 with the rifts. Same for WQs/bounties. I didn't like it in D3 and I don't like it in WoW.
09/25/2018 05:52 AMPosted by Felkyrie
How dare blizzard give people a different method of acquiring raid quality gear if they aren't interesting in raiding while at the same time giving dungeons an actually life span instead of being viable for the first 2-3 weeks of an expansion. Shame on them. SHAME!!!


So you think that it is okay that you are able to spend an hour in 5 man content (which is spamable for infinite loot in every single gear slot other than helm shoulder and chest) and walk away with an item that is potentially better than anything that drops in mythic uldir for that same gear slot? You think thats fair to the guilds who are going to do progression mythic raiding, spend a week killing a boss and you get a superior spamable reward for an hour investment in small group content?

Are you really trying to argue that this is fair? Seriously?
09/25/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Zoopain
09/25/2018 05:52 AMPosted by Felkyrie
How dare blizzard give people a different method of acquiring raid quality gear if they aren't interesting in raiding while at the same time giving dungeons an actually life span instead of being viable for the first 2-3 weeks of an expansion. Shame on them. SHAME!!!


So you think that it is okay that you are able to spend an hour in 5 man content (which is spamable for infinite loot in every single gear slot other than helm shoulder and chest) and walk away with an item that is potentially better than anything that drops in mythic uldir for that same gear slot? You think thats fair to the guilds who are going to do progression mythic raiding, spend a week killing a boss and you get a superior spamable reward for an hour investment in small group content?

Are you really trying to argue that this is fair? Seriously?


Why can't they do the spammable 5 man content either in lieu of, or in addition to their raid?

Everyone has access to it, so not sure where the fairness factor comes in.
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So you think that it is okay that you are able to spend an hour in 5 man content (which is spamable for infinite loot in every single gear slot other than helm shoulder and chest) and walk away with an item that is potentially better than anything that drops in mythic uldir for that same gear slot? You think thats fair to the guilds who are going to do progression mythic raiding, spend a week killing a boss and you get a superior spamable reward for an hour investment in small group content?

Are you really trying to argue that this is fair? Seriously?


Why can't they do the spammable 5 man content either in lieu of, or in addition to their raid?

Everyone has access to it, so not sure where the fairness factor comes in.


Raid content is harder than 5 man content. Period. 5 man content you only have to worry about 5 people messing stuff up. Raids you have 4 times as many people 4 times as many chances for mess ups. Raids are also mechanically more difficult as well, and yet the loot inside of Uldir is inferior to the easier mythic + content? So what is the point of mythic raiding anymore if you can progress your character better and faster by running 5 mans? The system is obviously busted, Mythic + is too rewarding. You people are just jumping to it's defense to protect your infinite no lockout mythic raid quality loot that takes less to actually get.
09/24/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Bogwater
Even as a rank 70 shammy


by what metric

also you play on an rp realm that is very very NOT competitive you could be rank 10 shammy and still be bad
09/25/2018 06:13 AMPosted by Zoopain

Raid content is harder than 5 man content. Period. 5 man content you only have to worry about 5 people messing stuff up. Raids you have 4 times as many people 4 times as many chances for mess ups. Raids are also mechanically more difficult as well, and yet the loot inside of Uldir is inferior to the easier mythic + content? So what is the point of mythic raiding anymore if you can progress your character better and faster by running 5 mans? The system is obviously busted, Mythic + is too rewarding.


I don't disagree with that, but I guess I don't see it as "unfair" (some element accessible/obtainable by one, but not the other) rather than a needed tweak between content levels. I see it as more of crap balance.

Raiding and the coordination/mechanics should be more rewarding, but it's still a choice to partake in the content. The better rewards are still available to raiders, it's just that your/their choice of play style which you (validly, in my opinion) deem as more challenging doesn't have correct reward system.
OP calls M+ Toxic....

Judging by a lot of the replies from the "M+ community" in this thread, OP is right.
I think the worst offense is that it enforces the idea of WoW being an E-Sport to be bilked instead of an RPG for players to live alternate lives in. WoW hasn't felt like a real world in a long time, and it doesn't even feel much like a theme park anymore either.

Dear Blizzard,

Not every game needs to be an E-Sport. Players miss having an immersive world. The last thing any of us nerds wanted was for our escape from this crap and the people it attracts was for you to turn it into Sportsballs! The Game.
Mythic + is not even the 30th worst thing in the game. It's actually alot of fun.
09/25/2018 06:23 AMPosted by Ekos
OP calls M+ Toxic....

Judging by a lot of the replies from the "M+ community" in this thread, OP is right.


I think removing the social/server aspect from raiding/dungeons is a huge contributor to this.

People are less inclined to be jerks when there is a reputation to uphold/local consequences (being known as a PITA on your own server, blacklisted.) It's more or less been removed in favor of convenience.
09/25/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Zujhadi
09/25/2018 06:13 AMPosted by Zoopain

Raid content is harder than 5 man content. Period. 5 man content you only have to worry about 5 people messing stuff up. Raids you have 4 times as many people 4 times as many chances for mess ups. Raids are also mechanically more difficult as well, and yet the loot inside of Uldir is inferior to the easier mythic + content? So what is the point of mythic raiding anymore if you can progress your character better and faster by running 5 mans? The system is obviously busted, Mythic + is too rewarding.


I don't disagree with that, but I guess I don't see it as "unfair" (some element accessible/obtainable by one, but not the other) rather than a needed tweak between content levels. I see it as more of crap balance.

Raiding and the coordination/mechanics should be more rewarding, but it's still a choice to partake in the content. The better rewards are still available to raiders, it's just that your/their choice of play style which you (validly, in my opinion) deem as more challenging doesn't have correct reward system.


It is crap balance but it is far from the only thing wrong with the gearing process in the game right now. Currently there are fundimental problems with the entire gearing up process.Problems with layers on top of layers on top of layers of RNG, problems with needlessly complicated boring azerite traits, problems with prioritizing main stats over everything else (which is what Blizzard is trying to push).

As I said in an earlier post, i think that titanforing, warforging, tertiary stats and gem socket procs are some of the worst things to happen in the game as a whole in a long time. It creates a situation where you will almost never get even a single piece of your absolute best in slot item for any gear slot which is unsatisfying. It devalues the meaning of item level (which is why more and more people are starting to use things like raider.io now, because the items you have equipped don't matter because it is so random).

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